This may be of interest to those that still wish to use a camera:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/240250/faq_when_can_you_capture_cops_on_camera.html#tk.nl_dnx_h_crawl
Anybody can be arrested for anything real or not real at the whim of anyone else or any police officer at any time. Actually getting a conviction or even getting it prosecuted in the first place is another matter. So if the security force of any corporation, store, mall, or the constibulary of any community feels they want to take you in, they can. It becomes an inconvenience to you. But you can always come back with a law suit. Just don't threaten anyone with it until after you're freed from being inconvenienced in the first place. God Bless America!
RIDEWITHMEHENRY is the name for our almost monthly day of riding trains and transit in either the NYCity or Philadelphia areas including all commuter lines, Amtrak, subways, light rail and trolleys, bus and ferries when warranted. No fees, just let us know you want to join the ride and pay your fares. Ask to be on our email list or find us on FB as RIDEWITHMEHENRY (all caps) to get descriptions of each outing.
selector But, Larry, even though a person has an attitude, if they are legally within their rights to be and to do what is their intent, no other attitude should prevail against them, including those of police personnel. Perhaps I have misunderstood you just above. Crandell
But, Larry, even though a person has an attitude, if they are legally within their rights to be and to do what is their intent, no other attitude should prevail against them, including those of police personnel.
Perhaps I have misunderstood you just above.
Crandell
Crandell,Here's a shocker you can be arrested for loitering even on public property-the penalty is usually a modest fine..
Did you know some corporations and manufacturing companies can lawfully restrict taking photos of their property-even in the background?
All to sadly there is hidden laws that covers just about everything from spitting in public to cussing in public.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hey Norm - I was just out there (Milford Memories plus some old school friends). I still know a couple of the officers there.
Crandell - When I speak of people with "attitude," they're the folks who do the exact opposite of all of the advice given here. As Norm points out, they don't respond logically and non-confrontationally - they puff out their chests and insist that "you can't tell me what to do!" Which will usually elicit a "let's just see about that" response from just about anybody. Then they'll complain loud and long about how the police harassed them.
I've seen video of police, fire, EMS, and even civilians confronting the media. Usually it's not that the cameraperson is on private property - it's because they're shooting in the first place.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Larry,
How correct you are. I've had a good relationship with Oakland County deputies for several years. Most of them I've known are indeed the 'good guys' others do have a bit of an attitude but are not obnoxious.
Attitude when confronted by an officer means a lot. If you're polite you're OK. If you are not, the cop is going to be less than friendly.
Norm
dekemd The US Court of Appeals for the First Circuit just ruled a few days ago that recording police in public is within a person's first amendment rights. Link to article: http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/court-rules-citizens-can-record-police
The US Court of Appeals for the First Circuit just ruled a few days ago that recording police in public is within a person's first amendment rights.
Link to article:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/sep/court-rules-citizens-can-record-police
There have been several reports lately about confrontations between photographers and law enforcement. In one case the photographer moved better than a block away - the officer had to get in his vehicle to again confront him.
Having a father, uncle, and cousin in law enforcement over the years, I can second the fact that some officers have an attitude - but so do some people.
Again we have one side of a news paper story.
Did the photographer cause a fuss or was it a mutual confrontational? We will never know since news agencies tend to be blind sided in dealing with police matters..
Corollary - Are cops with dashboard cams notifying parties they come in contact with that they are being recorded?
zugmann samfp1943: A small personal recording device might be a good thing to be able to prove that the railfan when confronted was NOT confrontational. But it would not be a good thing to wave it in the officer's face and make a major issue of turning it on. That could have ramifications! But depending on a state's wiretapping laws, could not telling the officer have ramifications as well?
samfp1943: A small personal recording device might be a good thing to be able to prove that the railfan when confronted was NOT confrontational. But it would not be a good thing to wave it in the officer's face and make a major issue of turning it on. That could have ramifications!
A small personal recording device might be a good thing to be able to prove that the railfan when confronted was NOT confrontational. But it would not be a good thing to wave it in the officer's face and make a major issue of turning it on. That could have ramifications!
But depending on a state's wiretapping laws, could not telling the officer have ramifications as well?
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
samfp1943 A small personal recording device might be a good thing to be able to prove that the railfan when confronted was NOT confrontational. But it would not be a good thing to wave it in the officer's face and make a major issue of turning it on. That could have ramifications!
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
The Don Phillips article in the October issue of TRAINS on page 11; is an excellent read. It is point and counterpoint to this Thread.
Railfans when questioned and maybe 'threatened' need to ask [politely],
" Officer, What law am I breaking?'
[ Remembering that the SCOTUS has said that photography of many things, when done from a public area is NOT illegal.]
There are many LEO types who are doing great jobs under difficult circumstances, but there are also some out there who have inflated opinions of their powers and authorities; individual officers who are all to ready to practice escalation on the most minimal situation.
Joining efforts like BNSF's and AMTRAK's fan registration programs are probably a good thing for the individuals into doing lots of filming and railfaning. The best tact seems to be able to proactively judge your circumstances and make sound judgement calls in each situation.
zugmann Andrew Falconer: Now we need a sexy model in a spandex and lace bodysuit in every shot! Andrew I'll forward you my card.
Andrew Falconer: Now we need a sexy model in a spandex and lace bodysuit in every shot! Andrew
Now we need a sexy model in a spandex and lace bodysuit in every shot!
Andrew
I'll forward you my card.
There is never a forum policeman around when you need one!
Bruce
So shovel the coal, let this rattler roll.
"A Train is a Place Going Somewhere" CP Rail Public Timetable
"O. S. Irricana"
. . . __ . ______
Andrew Falconer Now we need a sexy model in a spandex and lace bodysuit in every shot! Andrew
sd45-2 I was trackside recently in my hometown, sitting on the trunk of my car, on a public street in view of the tracks, video camera at my side. A local police officer arrived, followed shortly by a back-up officer. First i must mention the officers were very nice, they gave me the standard what are you doing? why? can i see some i.d. etc. I explained I was filming freight trains to share with friends. As i was fumbling thru my wallet, the second officer did a walk around inspection in my car windows. Before i could hand over my license, he says, "Theres a copy of TRAINS magazine on the dash". With that I got, "Have a good day John, stay safe". I just want to thank TRAINS for being my "on the spot lawyer".
I was trackside recently in my hometown, sitting on the trunk of my car, on a public street in view of the tracks, video camera at my side. A local police officer arrived, followed shortly by a back-up officer. First i must mention the officers were very nice, they gave me the standard what are you doing? why? can i see some i.d. etc. I explained I was filming freight trains to share with friends. As i was fumbling thru my wallet, the second officer did a walk around inspection in my car windows. Before i could hand over my license, he says, "Theres a copy of TRAINS magazine on the dash". With that I got, "Have a good day John, stay safe". I just want to thank TRAINS for being my "on the spot lawyer".
Your experience is exactly the way an interaction with law enforcement should be. They wondered what you were doing there and why, checked you out and went on their way. No one (police nor citizen) had an attitude and everybody continued on with their day. Some cops (I was a sheriff's deputy for 14 years) do have a bad attitude. However, a lot of the people police interact with also have a bad attitude. If you are railfanning and are approached by the police, be polite and answer their questions and things SHOULD work out fine.
As for being detained just for taking pictures, I would think that most judges would take a dim view of that. If you are on public property I don't think a judge would convict you for taking pictures. If you are on a station platform then that is a different story. While a station platform is open to the public, it is not public property. It is owned by the railroad or whatever agency is in control of it and they can stipulate what is allowed on that property.
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
detaining photographers for taking pictures "with no apparent esthetic value" is within Long Beach Police Department policy.
So if I take a picture of my wife I can be detained?
LOL
Thx IGN
Semper Vaporo "But sir... I teach photography and I was making some bad examples."
"But sir... I teach photography and I was making some bad examples."
If "Chiefy" is a political appointee, as most of them are, then the local citizens should start raising cain with the mayor and the town council. They're the ones he works for, they should have the common sense to keep him in line. Interestingly, as sheriffs are elected officials, you don't often hear of any abusing their authority. If they louse up, the voters turn them out pretty quickly.
Murphy Siding I'm sorry sir, but I don't see any apparent esthetic value in these photos. They're a little out of focus, and the lighting is from the wrong angle. I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to come with me to the station.
I'm sorry sir, but I don't see any apparent esthetic value in these photos. They're a little out of focus, and the lighting is from the wrong angle. I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to come with me to the station.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Page 8 of the October issue of Trains talks about this issue. The question, "what law am I breaking?" would, on the surface, make an officer stop and think instead of just reacting. The good ones will realize where they were heading, the bad ones, not so much.
henry6 I have had personal and professional relationships with all levels of police for well over 50 years. There have been some I would trust and respect and others I fear in the way they wear their powers. Each one I would have to evaluate as an individual and each one would have a different outcome based on the questions I asked above, no two would answer the questions the same,nor would any ten of them.
I have had personal and professional relationships with all levels of police for well over 50 years. There have been some I would trust and respect and others I fear in the way they wear their powers. Each one I would have to evaluate as an individual and each one would have a different outcome based on the questions I asked above, no two would answer the questions the same,nor would any ten of them.
But as the definition of paranoid is: Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irrational fear or distrust of others, I would say that most of the cops do indeed fit the description.
I am a retired police officer and the current interactions between the police and the citizens they are SWORN TO PROTECT scares ME.
If you can't see where it is headed you are blind.
What can possibly be construed as suspicious about a person who is taking pictures of something that is in plain sight of everyone who is walking by?
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
Have know may policemen over the years. Their competence has run the entire spectrum, as it would in any profession. However, the profession tends to draw the personality type that WANTS to exert power over other people....the home for the schoolyard bully in sanctioned adult life. Many outgrow being the bully, some do not and feel that they have any power if the are not capriciously imposing that power on someone. Some of the bully types even get promoted to the top jobs in their departments. Such is life.
I have had personal and professional relationships with all levels of police for well over 50 years. There have been some I would trust and respect and others I fear in the way they wear their powers. Each one I would have to evaluate as an individual and each one would have a different outcome based on the questions I asked above, no two would answer the questions the same,nor would any ten of them. This problem with photography is scarey as it is something any of them could pull at any time with aplomb and no reason. And it is a worse problem if it is beyond the taking of pictures of trains. Top Cop, you've got a problem, a real problem...get the picture and get the corrections developed!
Zardos,
Being friends with several deputies I can vouch they are not paranoid. Can't say the same for RR cops or local police officers. Most of the latter I've met are cordial, but I can't speak for all of them.
Your answers, Z, are the perceptions I fear that exist agains police officers and departments, perceptions they have to start dealing with or there will be real trouble in River City.
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