Because management will ask us to take armbands off, under the guise of a safety reason, plus most of us wear tee shirts in this weather, and an arm band is uncomfortable...besides, they can't make us take off our shirts.
As for the inadvertent symbolism, it isn't such a problem.
My grandfather was a German Jew, held here during WWI in a POW camp outside Alvin.
So yeah, some of us are old enough and from a particular culture to grasp the black shirt reference, but for most of the people here, it's just a shirt.
I doubt the person who drew the poster, and or started the concept even grasp the Nazi reference or latent symbolism.
schlimm Diggwadd: And yet another example of people who constantly look for a reason to be offended. My original comment was this: "A nice thought, although given the horrible symbolism of the Blackshirts (symbol of the SS), the more customary choice for mourning of a black armband would have been better. " Others, such as zugman, have also questioned the point of wearing a special shirt. But mentioning the inadvertent symbolism (as I said in a later post) seems to have generated a lot of resentment by some. Makes one wonder why such an inability to consider a mildly critical comment in a non-defensive way, as in "Methinks thou doth protest too much."
Diggwadd: And yet another example of people who constantly look for a reason to be offended.
And yet another example of people who constantly look for a reason to be offended.
My original comment was this:
"A nice thought, although given the horrible symbolism of the Blackshirts (symbol of the SS), the more customary choice for mourning of a black armband would have been better. "
Others, such as zugman, have also questioned the point of wearing a special shirt. But mentioning the inadvertent symbolism (as I said in a later post) seems to have generated a lot of resentment by some. Makes one wonder why such an inability to consider a mildly critical comment in a non-defensive way, as in "Methinks thou doth protest too much."
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zugmann Explain to me how wearing a black shirt will make any difference. It's like the 50,000 safety posters, slogans and other stuff they plaster the workplace with.
Explain to me how wearing a black shirt will make any difference.
It's like the 50,000 safety posters, slogans and other stuff they plaster the workplace with.
It's not meant to be a safety campaign, but rather a day to remember the ones who didn't make it back home. I think it's a nice gesture reguardless of what anyone else thinks of it.
technically, this simpsons shitr is black.
Diggwadd And yet another example of people who constantly look for a reason to be offended.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
Murray
Read the article. And your little quote from the Nazi party song, "Wenn die SS und die SA aufmarschiert"says it all: "denn die schwarze SS, und die braune SA..." Not die braune SS. The SS wore black shirts from 1932 onward. Panzer units of the Waffen SS wore black uniforms (tunics) even in the Battle of the Bulge. That is the symbolism.
I thought the SS were refered to as the Brownshirts?
Reality TV is to reality, what Professional Wrestling is to Professional Brain Surgery.
Semper Vaporo If is just a sign of solidarity amongst the cadre. An outward expression of the knowledge of safety. An expression of remembrance of those that have been injured or killed on the job of railroading. Will it make any difference? Does a "Run for Cancer" make a difference? I guess some of those disease benefits do collect money that is donated to research, but why not have a "Mow your neighbor's lawn for Cancer" and do something POSITIVE instead of clogging up the streets with wandering joggers?
If is just a sign of solidarity amongst the cadre. An outward expression of the knowledge of safety. An expression of remembrance of those that have been injured or killed on the job of railroading.
Will it make any difference? Does a "Run for Cancer" make a difference? I guess some of those disease benefits do collect money that is donated to research, but why not have a "Mow your neighbor's lawn for Cancer" and do something POSITIVE instead of clogging up the streets with wandering joggers?
I'd rather see everybody working safe as a sign of solidarity (instead of running around like idiots in order to get a 1 hour quit). That will go a lot further than a color of shirt.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
Double post. See below.
Firelock76 This has nothing to do with railroading, but the SS never wore black shirts. Originally as an offshoot of the SA they wore brown shirts as the "Sturmabteilung" did, however they wore black trousers and hats. The black uniform came later, but the brown shirt was still worn underneath the black jacket. It was called the "Tradition Shirt" at that time. Higher ranking SS officers eventually wore white shirts, and the black uniform was eventually phased out (in most cases) by 1940. Mussolini's people wore black shirts. I've never seen any German references to the SS as "Black Shirts." "Die schwartze SS und die braune SA" is typical.
This has nothing to do with railroading, but the SS never wore black shirts. Originally as an offshoot of the SA they wore brown shirts as the "Sturmabteilung" did, however they wore black trousers and hats. The black uniform came later, but the brown shirt was still worn underneath the black jacket. It was called the "Tradition Shirt" at that time. Higher ranking SS officers eventually wore white shirts, and the black uniform was eventually phased out (in most cases) by 1940. Mussolini's people wore black shirts. I've never seen any German references to the SS as "Black Shirts." "Die schwartze SS und die braune SA" is typical.
To add a little clarity to what Firelock76 contributed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniforms_and_insignia_of_the_Schutzstaffel
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Its 103 here in South Texas.
Everybody know you don't wear black this time of year....
zugmann I'll strive to work safe and create a safe working environment for my fellow workers. Like I do every day. So excuse me if I don't take part in this meaningless act.
I'll strive to work safe and create a safe working environment for my fellow workers. Like I do every day.
So excuse me if I don't take part in this meaningless act.
Meaningless? Yea OK........................
...and I though you folks were all Nebraska supporters/ fanatics....
oh and p.s. almost forgot, i'm a mechanic at a new car dealer, our uniforms are black t shirts, im a railfan and will fix anybodys car!
I agree lessons from the past should not be forgotten but hey, this is a railfan forum not a hate group. give the originators some credit for not even associating the the two. so to try and lighten the mood in here, did anyone not notice diqq said he's not a rail? just pokin fun diqq forgive me lol.
It was already mentioned above.
If we are going to dwell on the historic connotations of the "black Shirts"; then I should mention that this is what the Italian followers of Mussolini's Fascist movement wore. It was the Italian precursor to the German "Brown Shirts".
Of course this has nothing to do with the subject at hand, so I apologize for further steering the conversation away; I just wanted to clarify things.
Perhaps it was the association of black t-shirts with various rock groups that was in the back of the minds of the organizers.
As to the SS (Schutzstaffel = protection squad), yes, the entire uniform was black, but they wore and were referred to as the Black Shirts to differentiate them from the SA (Sturm Abteilung = storm detachment or storm troopers) "Brown Shirts" which was a large Nazi paramilitary organization designed for street fighting with other political organizations in Weimar Germany. The color brown was purely chance, as they got the uniforms cheap as war surplus from German colonial forces from WWI.
No, the meanings associated with those iconic symbols are quite clear to me, and always will be (can't really speak for anyone else, though - few discussions of that anymore, and maybe that's your point, too). But I was unaware of the black shirt connection. (Wasn't the SS 'dress' uniform entirely black, not just the shirts ? And I thought it was "Brown Shirts" ? Compare with John Malloy's Dress for Success book about 20 years ago, wherein he noted that brown suits tested very badly with elderly Jewish folks, though he didn't come right out and say or speculate why . . . ).
Getting back to railroading, this group seems to be something of a young ad hoc grass-roots organization, trying to supplement the traditional union representation of the operating people. Likely they never imagined their black shirt movement would be interpreted that way . . . and that illustrates the inadvertent and unintended adverse consequences of a color or other dress 'code': Those who aren't informed about it will transgress innocently, and thereby may lead to hard feelings between people who really don't have a fundamental disagreement at all . . . Better to inquire and know or confirm to be sure, than to just assume or assign the intent to them.
- Paul North.
Maybe the SS (and Fascisti) symbolism has faded in their minds and yours, but not in others and I hope it never does. There is a big difference in wearing a t-shirt that is black (ACDC, etc. shirts have been around in the rest of the US for 30+ years) and referring to this specifically as Black Shirt Friday.
Activated link: http://railroadworkersunited.org/
This appears to have been started after a 2009 workplace death, so this is either the 2nd or 3rd year for it - the further links, see the website above.
The notorious SS connotation may have faded into history - black shirts have been a fashion item here in the NorthEast US for several years now (though I don't own or wear any). Besides, I doubt if the SS wore a T-shirt ?
A nice thought, although given the horrible symbolism of the Blackshirts (symbol of the SS), the more customary choice for mourning of a black armband would have been better.
Not really sure how long it's been done.
Is this something new or have I just not heard about it before?
I'll be wearing mine. RIP to all those who have been lost.
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