Backing Up

[edblysard]

From the GCOR...

 

6.4.1 Permission for Reverse Movements

Obtain permission from the train dispatcher or control operator before making a reverse movement, unless the movement is within the same block in any of the following territories:

CTC

Signaled TWC

or

Rule 9.14 (Movement with the Current of Traffic)

6.4.2 Movements Within Control Points or lnterlockings A. Control Points or Manual Interlockings

If movement stops while the trailing end of the train is between the outer opposing absolute signals of a control point or manual interlocking, the movement must not change direction without permission from the control operator.

B. Automatic Interlockings

 

At an automatic interlocking, the train movement may change direction within the limits of the interlocking if it continuously occupies at least one car length of the limits.

 

6.5 Handling Cars Ahead of Engine

When cars or engines are shoved and conditions require, a crew member must take an easily seen position on the leading car or engine, or be ahead of the movement, to provide protection. Cars or engines must not be shoved to block other tracks until it is safe to do so.

When cars are shoved on a main track or controlled siding in the direction authorized, movement must not exceed:

20 MPH for freight trains

30 MPH for passenger trains

Maximum speed for snow service

 

 

In addition to these rules, railroads will make their own rules about shoving movements or reverse movements and list them in their timetables under special instructions.

These rule may be more restrictive than the GCOR, but never less restrictive.

On the PTRA, you may not shove back on the main unless a crewmember is riding the movement on the point or is in a position on the ground to observe the entire movement up to the point the rear cars will come to rest.

(we walk a lot)

In controlled and double ended sidings, you may shove back ½ the distance or capacity of the siding with out a man on point as long as the person controlling the movement can clearly see the last car, where it will come to rest, and can see that the movement will not pass over crossings or switches.

(Did I mention we walk a lot?)

You can shove yard tracks in the same manner, ½ the distance or capacity of the track.

Over ½ the distance or capacity, a crew member must be riding the movement on the point or on the ground at the end or the track where the last car will come to rest.

Industry sidings, stub sidings and inside any plant or industry the movement will be protected by a crew member riding the movement or in a position on the ground at the end of the siding or track and can clearly see the rear car and where it will come to rest.

The movement will stop 150 feet from the end of the track, bumping post or gates.

 

This link is to a on line version of the GCOR, although it is dated some what.

 

http://www.railroadcontrols.com/gcor/index.html

[baberuth73]

When I worked out of Andrews Yard in Columbia, S.C. we had a utility man that would monitor shoves if they occured in or near the yard. The yardmaster would also monitor shoves from his "perch" and using a pair of binoculars if he had a clear field of view. Otherwise it was up to the conductor/brakeman/switchman to be in place to give the engineer instructions at least every 20 seconds. If more than 20 seconds pass without hearing from the person watching the shove the train was stopped.

[mudchicken]

Sawtooth500

In cases where a train is backing up, must there always be a conductor on the end of the train (which is actually the front) while the train is backing up? Or are there certain cases where the conductor can just remain in the locomotive and the train backs up "blind"?

I sense a large hole in some poor unsuspecting roadmaster's budget!

[mudchicken]

zugmann

Just back up until it sounds expensive...

 

Good one, Mr. "Let's Get Dangerous"!

[henry6]

Sight and safety are the main concerns of any move.  Therefore it should follow that most back up moves need a rider to direct the engineer and usually a conductor or brakeman does the honors of hanging on to the hind car, radio at the ready.  However, I have seen where, within interlocking limits or other defined limits under control of an operator or dispatcher, the operator or dispatcher can tell the engineer he has permission to move backward until properly clear of the signal or another given point in the move or til the operator or dispatcher tells him to stop.  Sometimes there will be a rider, too.

[zugmann]

Just back up until it sounds expensive...

[tree68]

The Eighth Edition of NORAC can be found on-line (just Google it).  NORAC currently runs under the ninth Edition, but I think you'll find the older version is still a good representation.

I don't recall that anyone has ever linked to GCOR in its entirety.

While we usually have someone on the leading end of a push move, I have directed them from the ground when I had a clear view of where we were going.

This past summer we were running with one F unit on our local train - leading to a 10 mile push move.  I will say that I now know the territory there much better than I ever did while riding in the coaches.

[Sawtooth500]

Any place I could get a current copy of the rulebook(s) you are referring to?

[coborn35]

Just because you are shoving doesn't make it the front of the train. With the news rules in place today, most times you need a guy on the point, and depending on the version of the rules your using, will have to verbally say something along the lines of "CN 1234 conductor on the point protecting good for 30 cars" You must specify how many cars you are "good" or "clear" for, and the engineer must be able to stop in half of that distance. Usually as long as you can see the end of the movement, you do not need to ride the shove per-say, so during yard operations you can just eyeball some of the moves. On the main line you can shove without someone protecting the point as long as you do not go over any public crossings. This practice is rarely used, but it is there in the GCOR.

[Sawtooth500]

In cases where a train is backing up, must there always be a conductor on the end of the train (which is actually the front) while the train is backing up? Or are there certain cases where the conductor can just remain in the locomotive and the train backs up "blind"?