A follow-up from The News & Observer (nothing new, really, but thought I'd share).
Road Worrier: NC unclear on Trooper training, duties for big-truck escort
seppburgh2 Seems no one was in charge of notifying the RR: "Alerting the railroad wasn't the responsibility of the trooper, who had only 25 seconds or so to react after the approaching New York-bound train set off warning lights and the crossing arms came down, North Carolina Highway Patrol Spokesman Lt. Jeff Gordon said." Read the full story: http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/11/investigators-seek-cause-of-amtrak-crash-that-injured-55/21152052/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000058 Folks we be also in reading "She said she rolled down her window and asked a flag man if he could alert the railroad, but "he said he didn't think so." So, the fault is back to the tracking company and the state for poor planning and management of this move. Darn that Amtrack for putting a train on them tracks!
Seems no one was in charge of notifying the RR:
"Alerting the railroad wasn't the responsibility of the trooper, who had only 25 seconds or so to react after the approaching New York-bound train set off warning lights and the crossing arms came down, North Carolina Highway Patrol Spokesman Lt. Jeff Gordon said."
Read the full story:
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/03/11/investigators-seek-cause-of-amtrak-crash-that-injured-55/21152052/?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000058
Folks we be also in reading "She said she rolled down her window and asked a flag man if he could alert the railroad, but "he said he didn't think so."
So, the fault is back to the tracking company and the state for poor planning and management of this move. Darn that Amtrack for putting a train on them tracks!
North Carolina Highway Patrol Spokesman Lt. Jeff Gordon seems to be bucking for night shift foot patrol every time he opens his mouth.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
[quote user="dubch87“The one purpose of the patrol member is to basically make sure that unit is being correctly moved from point A to point B. ... Our trooper did not make the wrong decision.”[/quote]
Think about that statement. Wouldn't making sure that RR crossing protocols were being followed be part of that duty ?.
The North Carolina State Highway Patrol is stating that the permit holder is responsible for checking the route, and I'm assuming making the emergency call. “The one purpose of the patrol member is to basically make sure that unit is being correctly moved from point A to point B. ... Our trooper did not make the wrong decision.”I'm not sure I agree with that when there is a clear danger to the public's safety. And yes, the NCSHP spokesman's name is Jeff Gordon.
Emergency call might have prevented Halifax Amtrak derailment - Raleigh News & Observer
BaltACD http://news.yahoo.com/investigators-seek-cause-amtrak-crash-injured-55-085032668.html
http://news.yahoo.com/investigators-seek-cause-amtrak-crash-injured-55-085032668.html
FTL:[snipped]"... investigators were piecing together why emergency railroad dispatchers apparently weren't told that Black was struggling to negotiate a tight turn across the tracks with a load nearly 16 feet wide and tall, weighing 127 tons and stretching for 164 feet..
The locomotive's "black box" was recovered, and investigators will review the state permit that enabled Turner to exceed length and weight limits while hauling the electrical distribution facility to New Jersey.
The route, including the fateful turn at the railroad crossing, was designed to avoid several highway overpasses along Interstate 95 that would have been too risky to get under with such a tall load, officials said.
Long-established protocols require truck drivers and trooper escorts to "clear their routes and inform the railroad dispatchers what they're doing," said Steve Ditmeyer, a former Federal Railroad Administration official.
Failing that, a toll-free emergency number prominently displayed at each crossing reaches dispatchers who can radio trains to stop..."
BALTACD had pointed out the truth od the very last sentence in a previous Forum post.
Normally, in the movement of many wide loads, it is the 'ESCORT' of that load that bears the responsibility for the safe delivery of the load, not to mention the insurance coverage for the escorted load. Not sure about North Carolina's rules, but since this load was not only excessively wide AND High, Long and Heavy; the State may have required the Troopers to be accompanying the load,in addition to the normal escort and their vehicles(?)
[Note to Edit: add Emphasis] The CBS news broadcast last night mentioned that the Highway-Rail Grade Crossing had been blocked, at the time of the incident, for over 8 minutes. Enough time for a call to be placed to the RR Dispatch Emergency number(on the Crossing Stanchion)
Do not N.C. State Troopers have 2 way radio communications available (?) A lot can be accomplished in 8 minutes.
I am going to have to lay the cause of this incident at the hands of the NC Trooper that was escorting the oversized load. He should have called the Railroad prior to the truck EVER occupying the crossing and requested that rail traffic be held until the load had cleared the crossing. Carriers will honor such requests from local authorities. With the crossing being on CSX, they have posted at every road crossing, on the crossbuck statnion, both the contact number as well as the DOT identification number of the crossing so there is no confusion as to which crossing is the one to be protected.
Yes but most of the "injured" were transported to the hospital by bus. Only the real injured people went by ambulance.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
csxns Their is a video on WSOC TV 9 that shows the train hitting the trailer.
Their is a video on WSOC TV 9 that shows the train hitting the trailer.
See video linked @ http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=train+wreck%2fhalifax%2cnc%3f&qpvt=Train+wreck%2fHalifax%2cNC%3f&FORM=VQFRML#view=detail&mid=5DA03E297165781D265C5DA03E297165781D265C
Video was shot by a motorist apparently waiting for the load to clear the intersection(?) [suguest turn you sound down on viewing video]. Large modular structure had a NC State Police escort, [other videos are available with FD/PD dispatch traffic on them.] It was being reported that 50 people were transported injured from scene.
One news report says he stalled on the tracks. Looking at the intersection in Google Earth Street View it's a pretty safe bet he stopped for the traffic light while still on the track.
Norm
Russell
This time they hit a truck hauling part of a modular home.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article13102043.html
blue streak 1 Phoebe Vet NC DOTas been systematically sealing the entire corridor for several years in anticipation of the SE Corridor. Phoebe: The point should be "a good grade crossing is an extinct grade crossing"! Regular gates where none are, four quadrant gates, quiet zones and other improvements will not cure drivers ignorance of proper behavior around a grade crossing. Friend stopped to check a grade crossing with gates that later were found to not be not operating but a train horn warned him! Only worked when train in island circuit.
Phoebe Vet NC DOTas been systematically sealing the entire corridor for several years in anticipation of the SE Corridor.
NC DOTas been systematically sealing the entire corridor for several years in anticipation of the SE Corridor.
Just a brief comment on this. It seems that over the last few years, the NC DOT Trains on their " Corridor": seem to be reported as hitting more dump trucks, and log trucks on a fairly regular basis....This does not seem to include the autos that run their crossings, do they count those?
So closing or Highway-Rail Crossings would be a real plus for them. The question remains; when crossings are closed, are they replaced with Over or Underpasses? It seems to be learned behavior with motorists, maybe a game(?) The answer seems to be Crossings with such restrictive devices as to discourage the scoff-laws?
I agree 100% that we should be on a long term path of elimination of rail crossings.
Just a thought:
Perhaps testing the ability to K turn and parallel park are not the best criteria for a road test.
Watch a 4 quadrant gate operate.
First the bells and red flashing lights activate. There is a delay before the gate descends There is another delay before the exit gate descends The only way to get trapped between the gates is to enter or remain in the ROW after the lights and bell actuate. Every few weeks I see someone with no patience do exactly that. I see people stopped in bumper to bumper traffic on the tracks. I see gates come down on top of moving vehicles. Last week, while riding our light rail, the train came to a complete stop and was blowing the horn repeatedly. I moved so I could see out the front. In front of us there were not one, but two cars stopped INSIDE the lowered gate but before the tracks, patiently waiting for the train to pass. Which explains my claim that many people are to stupid to be allowed to cross railroad tracks.
EuclidOh okay, I did not see a reference to being blocked in by gates.
On an interesting note, I cannot find the reference to 'gates closing around' her in the coverage this morning. I try to avoid conspiracy theories, but this makes me at least wonder if there is some attempt being made to "restate" the coverage of this accident in some way...
I cannot find my copy of the FRA Research Report on camera-equipped four-quadrant gating to see whether it explicitly used the cameras to keep the 'exit' quadrant open for a vehicle stuck in a lane of a crossing.* Whether cameras, inductive loops, or some other technology is used to achieve that, I have always thought it to be a critical safety element for four-quadrant gate installations. In a great many places -- and, apparently, here -- that safety has apparently not been provided.
*I started looking for it again, and here is something more recent with specific reference to the situation.
Oh okay, I did not see a reference to being blocked in by gates.
EuclidI don't find any references to the crossing or its protection system. What do four-quadrant gates have to do with it.
RTFA (in the link "Witnesses told WTVD")
It was pretty clear to me, but maybe not to you. The 80-year-old victim 'got her van stuck on the tracks between the crossing bars'. A reference yesterday referenced the 'gates coming down around' her (or language to that effect). It tells me she was on the crossing and the gates blocked her in. When you're 80, you might not think of ways to get out of that predicament before the train gets to you -- and that seems most likely what has happened here.
While it is possible she just happened to stall there and was trying to get the vehicle moving again at the wrong time... she was still boxed in, and that might have contributed to the apparent difficulty in getting her out of the van in time.
Overmod Phoebe Vet An Amtrak train headed to Charlotte collided with a car Tuesday afternoon in Mebane. Apparently a pretty direct result of four-quadrant gating, for you 'quiet zones are safe' aficionados...
Phoebe Vet An Amtrak train headed to Charlotte collided with a car Tuesday afternoon in Mebane.
Apparently a pretty direct result of four-quadrant gating, for you 'quiet zones are safe' aficionados...
blue streak 1 Phoebee: Maybe its time for NC DOT to worry about the heavy traffic crossings instead of the below crossings of 2 - 6 trains a day? http://www.progressiverailroading.com/c_s/news/North-Carolina-DOTs-Rail-Division-boosts-safety-at-six-public-crossings--42908
Phoebee: Maybe its time for NC DOT to worry about the heavy traffic crossings instead of the below crossings of 2 - 6 trains a day?
http://www.progressiverailroading.com/c_s/news/North-Carolina-DOTs-Rail-Division-boosts-safety-at-six-public-crossings--42908
Phoebe Vet Perhaps the people in Mebane just shouldn't be allowed to cross railroad tracks. http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/1-killed-when-amtrak-train-collides-vehicle-mebane/njTPt/ MEBANE, N.C. — An Amtrak train headed to Charlotte collided with a car Tuesday afternoon in Mebane.
Perhaps the people in Mebane just shouldn't be allowed to cross railroad tracks.
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/1-killed-when-amtrak-train-collides-vehicle-mebane/njTPt/
MEBANE, N.C. —
An Amtrak train headed to Charlotte collided with a car Tuesday afternoon in Mebane.
Looks like it provided a afternoon's entertainment for the locals from the video.
Phoebe VetAn Amtrak train headed to Charlotte collided with a car Tuesday afternoon in Mebane.
Something many low boy drivers tend to forget.
1. Empty low boy trailers are bowed up about 8-10" in the middle between the king pin and trailer wheels. So a low clearance crossing can be crossed empty.
2. When the 37? series (110K - 187K) backhoe is loaded the low boy bow may disappear and may even become bowed down. Now the backhoe + lowboy will drag and maybe snag on the same crossing he cleared earlier.
3. It has happened at least 3 times in the past 2 years here in my town. Fortunately CSX got stopped in time.
This is one of the photos from the wreck site:
Horrific crash, minor injuries - Traffic - NewsObserver.com
It appears the crossing was properly signed.
As far as any wrong doing on the driver, more than likely he may be local having crossthis and other crossings many times and the updates could have raised the tracks. These type of trailers will slide across tracks easily if the driver is able to keep his speed up and ina gear to provide the extra power needed to do so. -many years been there, done that. Never seen a warning sign such as that one and living in area with 20 or more NW crossings thereare no signs although some of those can`t be used by this type trailer, which doesn`t use any hydraulic on the connection, its usually air operated pin. I`m not 100% sure but guessing tractor and trailer can be permited for 125,000 gross, tare wt around 36,000. Never hauled a 370 but looking at it I don`t it getting 100,000. Local companies usually will obtain blanket permits to cover all loads needing permits by the month or more and don`t get one for a trip.Thats all folks, I leave now for the pros to continue.
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