Let's turn up the houselights and ask questions

[Mookie]

Saw some open hopper cars with bottom dumps. The dumps were open as they traveled. Drying them out? Maybe had standing water in them?

Liquified Petroleum - for making bombs? Said if it leaked you should be a mile away. What do we do with this? It is really dangerous! Probably not as bad as edible tallow, but still...... [}:)]

Sign on side of car - Holland Load Snugging Floor Action - what does this floor do?

Optimodal - cute little package - looked to be very heavy - small, fat tank-types - with bracing around them. for?????

Saw lots of Kitty Litter (CATX) and.......UPS Trucks on flat cars.....rub, rub.....

That should keep you busy for about 15 min.....

Mookie

[^]

[CShaveRR]

Sis, I think that's probably liquefied petroleum gas, fairly commonly transported by rail, and used for lots of different things (including, possibly, backyard barbecues). It's a gas normally, but is transported in tank cars under several hundred pounds of pressure, which liquefies it. That makes the whole tank act like an aerosol can if it would be punctured or incinerated.

Maybe an old buddy of mine, who works with the Holland Company, can tell me about the snuggly floor. Sounds like it would be perfect for kitties!

The Optimodal thing(y) you saw is probably an intermodal tank container...they're almost always 20 feet in length, and the framework just makes them rectangular so they can be carried or stacked (with restrictions, I'm sure!) like any other container.

BC

[Hugh Jampton]

I suspect the hoppers were being illegally moved. All the ones I ever saw had a "Do not move with doors open" stencil on them. The doors aren't watertight, so any water will quickly drain out anyway.

[rrnut282]

Can you do the Tarzan yell?



You Carol Burnett fans will know what I mean.

[Anonymous]

yes, it was undoubtably Liquid propane gas being transported. LPG, the stuff BBq's run on. it is jsut like butane, it is a liquid when it is sealed off from air, but as soon as air mixes into it, it evaportaes into a gas.

Try this at home... No don't...

Take a household lighter and ajust the -/+ to the max it will possibly go.

i'll stop this demontration, i'll end up getting sued,

lets try anohter,

Got to a variety store and buy a can of butaine. now bring it home, pu***he little nozzel downand spray some onto a peice of paper, it will come out like wtaer, but evaporate within 1 second at most.

don't use your hands. butane is very cold, and will frost bite your hand!

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

yes, it was undoubtably Liquid propane gas being transported. LPG, the stuff BBq's run on. it is jsut like butane, it is a liquid when it is sealed off from air, but as soon as air mixes into it, it evaportaes into a gas.

Try this at home... No don't...

Take a household lighter and ajust the -/+ to the max it will possibly go.

i'll stop this demontration, i'll end up getting sued,

lets try anohter,

Got to a variety store and buy a can of butaine. now bring it home, pu***he little nozzel downand spray some onto a peice of paper, it will come out like wtaer, but evaporate within 1 second at most.

don't use your hands. butane is very cold, and will frost bite your hand!

The big heat plume that just lit up NORAD was not another North Korean railway accident, nor was it the launch of the long feared Canadian nuclear first strike.....but kevinsthe1stdegreeburninintensivecareman having a butane incident.......

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrnut282

Can you do the Tarzan yell?



You Carol Burnett fans will know what I mean.

You are so smart!!!! That is exactly who I had in mind when I wrote that!

Go to the head of the class!

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

yes, it was undoubtably Liquid propane gas being transported. LPG, the stuff BBq's run on. it is jsut like butane, it is a liquid when it is sealed off from air, but as soon as air mixes into it, it evaportaes into a gas.

Try this at home... No don't...

Take a household lighter and ajust the -/+ to the max it will possibly go.

i'll stop this demontration, i'll end up getting sued,

lets try anohter,

Got to a variety store and buy a can of butaine. now bring it home, pu***he little nozzel downand spray some onto a peice of paper, it will come out like wtaer, but evaporate within 1 second at most.

don't use your hands. butane is very cold, and will frost bite your hand!

The big heat plume that just lit up NORAD was not another North Korean railway accident, nor was it the launch of the long feared Canadian nuclear first strike.....but kevinsthe1stdegreeburninintensivecareman having a butane incident.......

I looked this up in my haz mat book Ed sent me - it sounded like if this stuff was exposed to just a smile - it would go poof! Driver was reading it to me and included that MIllie should back up about a block, just in case! [xx(]

[dehusman]

The "stay away from" distances are for a leaking/burning container (car, etc). The distance is derived form measuring how far away pieces landed after the last one blew up.

A RR tank car of LPG if it explodes (really a rare event) have landed up to a mile away, so they ask people to stay away 1 mile in the event of a problem to put them out of range of the debris.

The Holland Floor is probably some sort of load restraining system that allows the shipper to tie a load down to the floor so it won't shift in transit.

Dave H.

[mudchicken]

Good for Driver!

The term is BLEVE when those things go off....You DO NOT want to be there, trust me......Tree68, UniHead & Mudchicken do not want to be there when it's roman candle time on a massive scale......The stuff is fine until you heat it up or puncture the outer hull of the tank...

Boiling Liquid Expansion Vapor Explosion = BLEVE

I believe Kevin has applied for the stunt dummy job on the Red Green Show?

Rusty Iron Feathers[:-^][:-^][:-^]

[cherokee woman]

Shall we send Kevin to THE COUCH IN THE CORNER for this[?]

[JoeKoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie


Saw lots of Kitty Litter (CATX) and.......UPS Trucks on flat cars.....rub, rub.....

That should keep you busy for about 15 min.....

Mookie

[^]

Mookie
better keep them eyes open on those UPS trailers.A guy told me he saw a container open and boxes flying out of them.was spotted by another crew train stopped and problem fixed.[:0]
stay safe
Joe

[UPTRAIN]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Saw some open hopper cars with bottom dumps. The dumps were open as they traveled. Drying them out? Maybe had standing water in them?

Liquified Petroleum - for making bombs? Said if it leaked you should be a mile away. What do we do with this? It is really dangerous! Probably not as bad as edible tallow, but still...... [}:)]

Sign on side of car - Holland Load Snugging Floor Action - what does this floor do?

Optimodal - cute little package - looked to be very heavy - small, fat tank-types - with bracing around them. for?????

Saw lots of Kitty Litter (CATX) and.......UPS Trucks on flat cars.....rub, rub.....

That should keep you busy for about 15 min.....

Mookie

[^]

I know about the tanks...I think they were UP's "Bulktainers". Hope this helps. [:D][8D][:)][:p][}:)][;)]

[edblysard]

Mookie,
LPG, Liquified petroleum gas, butane, propane, those guys.
Carl explained, its a gas at atmosphere, but under pressure, is a liquid.
You know the little bottle of propane driver has hooked to the torch he uses to solder, or the bigger bottle under the bar-b que pit?
That stuff is a LPG.
Mudchicken told you what we call it when one blows up,
Bleve.
If you do manage to poke a hole in the side of one of these, the friction of the liquid against the edge of the hole, added to the rapid expansion of the liquid into a gas, can/will cause it to explode.
Think about it, we have a offical name for one of these things blowing up.

Englewood had a bleve back in the 70s, after all the fires were out, and they found most of the cars, they ended up bulldozing most of the north side of the yard across Liberty street, into a empty lot, and starting over on rebuilding the yard.
Yes, they can throw parts of the car a mile.
We saw a bleve in our training films, the tank went pretty much straight up, about 100 feet, landed several hundered feet down range.

Now, after telling you all that, heres this.
Carl, Mudchicken, LC, wabash, me, Rodney Beck, and now, N Stephenson, all work around this stuff every day.
We transport thousands of the LPG tankers through "your" town every day.
I kick them, in cuts of two, all day long.
Because the tanks on these cars are tough, real tough.
I am sure Muddyfeathers can give you the math and specs on one, but they are designed to be beaten to death.
We are trained on how and where to place them in a train, so they dont get a hole poked in them.
Because the people who build the tankcars, and because we railroaders do our job every day, and do it right, you most likely will never see a bleve.

Holland load snugger floor, floor has slots in it, to allow a eyebolt type device for straps to be sliped into the slot and locked in place, allows you to strap and snug loading to the floor, to prevent shifting and damage.

Optimodal, also know as tanktainers, used to transport small amounts of liquid chemicals in a intermodal frame.


Open dump doors on hoppers means the conductor is trying to get fired, if one of those hangs on a crossing, hes in deep stuff.
You can move them, per the rules, (look in you GCOR or the safety rules) with the doors open, if instructed to do so by a supervisor, but only at the slowest speed, and only to the point where they can be reapired or closed.

Ed

[Anonymous]

I also saw a training film on Bleve's; it was a news film of some "On The Spot News" reporter talking with a fireman while a tank was exhausting flames from a hole in the side. In mid-sentence the film whited out as the tank launched. Everyone in the area was killed. The point of the film was to give these things lots of room. (Hmm, like I was planning to interview the firefighter myself. I don't think so.)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Good for Driver!

The term is BLEVE when those things go off....You DO NOT want to be there, trust me......Tree68, UniHead & Mudchicken do not want to be there when it's roman candle time on a massive scale......The stuff is fine until you heat it up or puncture the outer hull of the tank...

Boiling Liquid Expansion Vapor Explosion = BLEVE

In the fire service we used to refer to a BLEVE as a "Blast Leveling Everything Very Effectively"...

LOL!!

LC

[Anonymous]

Look i'm goignt o put thsis so a 2 year old can understand it..

light a mtach near it, if it goes boom, it was gas, if nothing happens, try to surpress the feeling of being gyped, for it was nothing.

oooo Ed put it so sophisticatedly.. Heres how you can find out.. this is out oif my book of rules.. Take an ordinary butaine lighter at home. turn the +/- all the way to +, matter of fact break that little black thing and take a penknife and keep turning it a few more turns.

Okay, now whatever you do, DO NOT LIGHT IT! press down the gas. You will notice the gas is comming out so fast, it will coem out as a liquid form, then quickly evaporate.

that is the sciece of things.

PROCOR tanks, are tough, really tough indeed. they can survive a good blow.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Good for Driver!

The term is BLEVE when those things go off....You DO NOT want to be there, trust me......Tree68, UniHead & Mudchicken do not want to be there when it's roman candle time on a massive scale......The stuff is fine until you heat it up or puncture the outer hull of the tank...

Boiling Liquid Expansion Vapor Explosion = BLEVE

In the fire service we used to refer to a BLEVE as a "Blast Leveling Everything Very Effectively"...

LOL!!

LC

So kevinsthesoontobeburntoacrispman is going to be made a BLEVE(r) in the incidenary power of compressed gas.....


headed to the couch.....

[adrianspeeder]

oooooooooooo. FIRE. if you ever are in an emergency situation and need napalm (and i mean ONLY in and emergency) cover styrofoam with nail polish remover, wait one minute, mix ensuing globs with diesel fuel (don't use gasoline, thats not safe) and light and fling. I remember when i did this one weekend.... never mind that was a bad weekend.

Safety First

Adrianspeeder

[edblysard]

Only if Kevinsthecrispyrrman takes the Last Train to Clarksville, the he can say I'm a Bleve(r)

Ed

[locomutt]

Ed,

JOIN Kevin and the rest ON THE COUCH IN THE CORNER!

[edblysard]

Hey, Dan started it....

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Hey, Dan started it....

Did not....

[espeefoamer]

OK.Took the test.Turned the valve to +.Broke off the black thing & gave it a few more turns.Didn't read the part about "Do not light it".[:0]Now I am in a place with lots of pre- Amtrak passenger trains,ALCo's,and steam engines up the wazoo!!! I am also sitting on a cloud playing a harp. Next time I will read the instructions!!!

[swknox]

That must have been that large orange fire ball I saw going up into the sky tonight when I was outside looking towards the bay. I just thought it was the sun setting. Boy was I wrong. We even felt a small tremor from it. Oh and the smell..................[angel]
Wait now people we can't afford to be wasting butane, gas, or diesel in times like this, aww the hell with it. Burn baby burn...

[Anonymous]

And they say kids learn how to make explosives on the internet! Why thats just absurd.

[rixflix]

Remember Uncle George from Borneo? Now that's a place not mentioned often here!!!! The doors and tacks didn't work but the roman candle in the expert hands of Spanky did. when fired horizontally. Went through Richmond, Indiana a day or so after a semi-trailer of one of those gasses sailed up old Rte 40 (The National Pike, main street, folks). Saw a lot of devestation on NBC in Philly before I left home, but little in Richmond. Did the Trails's Golden Eagle bypass town? Would have been August '66 going to Ft.Sill or May '68 going to Ft.Lewis
Rick

[csxengineer98]

yawn

[edblysard]

Did too!

[Mookie]

Wow - I am backing off from all of you. I had trouble even lighting sparklers and snakes as a kid - so I don't go near anything that is fire or dangerous. Even butane lighters, Kev. Guess I will have to move my spot back and watch the trains through high powered binoculars!

Those open bottom dumps were on about 3-4 different cars - and not all together. They looked to be an old style - like hinged ones? Opened from one side and hung open like a cupboard door upside down. I figured one might be a mistake, but 3-4 of them and it had me wondering why.

But this is one of those trains that has open boxcar doors regularly, too, so maybe there is a rhyme to their reason?