The following article was gleaned from this site:
Can anyone either debunk and\or add additional information to this story that refuses to fade away? I have an open mind but this alleged account has only circulated in paranormal circles,and personally I doubt this occurred and so I thought it would be interesting to have the resident experts here take it apart and see if there are any holes in it. There are other accounts although not involving collision like the alleged C&O incident.or the Bigfoot sighting..both of which I posted earlier. If anything, railroad lore and mythology is far from being confined to the past in the tales of John Henry, all of which are seemingly being given a new context.
Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
Comments:
1) If there were searchlights being used on the river, wouldn't that dazzle/ blind the crew from being able to estimate the size of the object, and tell whether it had windows or not ?
2) Damage to lead locomotive - shown in photo ? - and not otherwise described, does not seem extensive for a 30 MPH impact. For the "first impact", that's inconsistent with the heavy damage described to the cab of the trailing unit and next 2 cars.
3) Damage to top of cab of lead loco as shown in photo is inconsistent with frontal impact at 30 MPH. Sheet metal appears to be bent down - as if something fell on it from above - instead of being pushed back and then either up and/ or down, as it would be from an impact on that corner from the front.
4) So how - where - when - etc., was the photo of the loco cab obtained, if they never saw it again and "national security" and all that ?
5) No numbers painted on side of cab, or in numberboards.
6) Working railroaders will have to tell us whether the emergency brakes will actually apply if engine and complete system "loss of power" occurs. I could believe that might happen, considering all of the electronic control inputs to that system - alerter, signal systems, speed recorder, etc. - but, also that it doesn't occur that way.
7) "I estimate that we hit the object at 30 mph with 16,000 trailing tons behind us. It clipped the top of our lead unit then skipped back slicing a chunk out of our trailing unit and first two coal cars. The other objects vanished.Our emergency brakes had initiated due to the loss of power and we stopped approximately a mile and a half to two miles after impact." [emphasis added - PDN.]
That long to stop in emergency, from only 30 MPH ? Sorry, not likely on a "water-level" grade (along a river, as stated - which one, by the way ?), even with a fully loaded coal train. What do the working rails say ?
Also, "initiated" emergency brakes ? That sounds like an aviator or automotive engineer, not a railroader. And, any railroader qualified on the territory could tell you a lot closer than within 1/2 mile how far it took his train to stop, especially in emergency from an incident like this.
8) Nothing visible afterwards - not even the pile of coal that fell out of the 1st 2 hopper cars when they were that heavily damaged - from the tonnage, it had to have been a loaded coal train.
- Paul North.
Speculation will no doubt run wild with this....
The 2 mile figure and in "emergency" to stop, really stood out for me and I'm not a RR'er....
Quentin
At 30 MPH = 44 ft./ sec., to go the 1-1/2 miles until stopping would be at least 3 minutes (at 30 MPH the whole way) - more likely close to 5 to 6 minutes to go that distance. That's an average deceleration rate of from 0.17 MPH per second down to 0.083 MPH per second - all outrageously slow.
Also: Train goes into emergency - no lights displayed - no communications with the DS - so why wasn't throwing a fusee to warn any trains on the other track of possible fouling conditions mentioned ?
Further: If the object was approaching that low (10 to 12 ft. above the track), why not immediately turn the headlight back on to warn it ? How did they know it wasn't going to come right through the windshield ?
- PDN.
Aha ! The railroad & coal mine version of "The dog ate my homework" - instead of "Boy, did we ever goof at the coal mine's tipple", it's "A UFO did a 'hit-and-run' on our locomotive !"
And maybe: "The aliens even kidnapped us, too !"
Because the response might well be: "You know, I could believe that - because them being an intelligent life form, I can see why they'd want to send you guys back here at the earliest opportunity !" [See the famous short story, "The Ransom of Little Red Chief", by O. Henry]
Paul_D_North_JrAha ! The railroad & coal mine version of "The dog ate my homework" - instead of "Boy, did we ever goof at the coal mine's tipple", it's "A UFO did a 'hit-and-run' on our locomotive !"
I think you've got it! Now the question is... Who's fault was that? The tipple operator, or somehow the railroaders? (Maybe they were supposed to make sure the track was clear before proceeding?) If it was the tipple operator's fault, I bet the railroad crew got a nice dinner that night...
beaulieuRussell, Ky to Shelbyiana is a bit odd for a loaded coal train, not impossible, but odd. The track is on a gradual climb over the distance as you climb from the Ohio River valley towards a connection with the former Clinchfield Railroad, but there might be level sections. With the Clinchfield being absorbed into Seaboard System the crew change was moved from Elkhorn City north to Pikeville (Shelbyiana Yard). The 30 mph seems a bit high for a heavily loaded coal train with 2 units on a route with many curves and an uphill grade.
I agree--most loaded coal trains would move down to Russell, rather than away from there, over this route. On the C&O the yard was known as Shelby (silent "L" when pronounced by my favorite Pikeville native). The river, by the way (for the person who asked) would be the Big Sandy River, or the Levisa Fork of the Big Sandy further upstream.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Sounds like an X Files episode. I sure do miss Agents Mulder and Scully.
ed
MP173 Sounds like an X Files episode. I sure do miss Agents Mulder and Scully.
zardoz MP173 Sounds like an X Files episode. I sure do miss Agents Mulder and Scully. take us to your leader
Maybe it was Roger from American Dad ? Same network, anyway.
Let me get this straight. You want us to take this story apart and see if there are any holes in it? Be serious, dude. Basically it is nothing more than an anonymous liar's tale with absolutely no evidence to support it.
In the entire history of this stuff, which dates back to 1947, there have been over a hundred thousand reports and not one has been satisfactorily proven. Not even close.
While I think this stuff is all hooey, I do believe in Santa Claus. Ho-ho-ho.
Na-nu-na-nu,
Chico
Concur with Chico's 1st paragraph above. Thinking back over the Original Post last night - and comparing what in it seems good and what doesn't - it reads to me like a pretty good entry in a "Tall Tales" contest of some kind.
I retired from CSX as a Locomotive Engjineer in 2011 after working (33) years on the Cinn-Corbin Division. I have no personal knowledge of the incident but I do know how CSX operates. They do not like other agencies on thier property and like to settle things in house. I do find it curious the the locomotive picture has the Engine Numbers blacked out. With thhose numbers I could go online with CSX and get the entire history of that locomotive down to the price paid for it. It would show the date placed in service and any matinence done on itl I would reall like to learn more about this incident. Another thing is how did the locomotives get moved from the Paintville Yard overnight. A truck would not be big enough and I don't know of any trailer that could carry 450,000 lbs of each locomotive. They had to move by rail! No crane around would be big enough to lift them on a trailer. Lots of questions left for answers.
[quote user="Engineer 702"]
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WELL! Not to muddy the waters But there was another incident over in Indiana in 1973...CSX and its 'Family Lines'; maybe were being targeted by UFO and their Extraterrestrial Dispatch???
see linked @ http://www.nicap.org/731020mtvernon_dir.htm
"UFO Stops Train" Oct. 20, 1973 6-7 mi. East of Mt. Vernon, Indiana
FIA:"...Fran Ridge: Oct. 20, 1973; Mt. Vernon, Indiana 6:50 a.m. The primary witness was a conductor on a L&N train that had an encounter with a UFO. Mt. Vernon, is a little town 15 miles west of the city of Evansville..."
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