Update: 2002 Paintsville, Kentucky Collision With Unidentified Object

[samfp1943]

[quote user="Engineer 702"]

I retired from CSX as a Locomotive Engjineer in 2011 after working (33) years on the Cinn-Corbin Division. I have no personal knowledge of the incident but I do know how CSX operates.  They do not like other agencies on thier property and like to settle things in house. I do find it curious the the locomotive picture has the Engine Numbers blacked out.  With thhose numbers I could go online with CSX and get the entire history of that locomotive down to the price paid for it. It would show the date placed in service and any matinence done on itl  I would reall like to learn more about this incident. Another thing is how did the locomotives get moved from the Paintville Yard overnight.  A truck would not be big enough and I don't know of any trailer that could carry 450,000 lbs of each locomotive.  They had to move by rail!  No crane around would be big enough to lift them on a trailer.  Lots of questions left for answers.

[quote]

WELL!  Not to muddy the waters  But there was another incident over in Indiana in 1973...CSX and its 'Family Lines';  maybe were being targeted by UFO and their Extraterrestrial Dispatch???

see linked @ http://www.nicap.org/731020mtvernon_dir.htm

"UFO Stops Train"
Oct. 20, 1973   6-7 mi. East of Mt. Vernon, Indiana

FIA:"...Fran Ridge:
Oct. 20, 1973; Mt. Vernon, Indiana
6:50 a.m. The primary witness was a conductor on a L&N train that had an encounter with a UFO. Mt. Vernon, is a little town 15 miles west of the city of Evansville..." 

[Engineer 702]

I retired from CSX as a Locomotive Engjineer in 2011 after working (33) years on the Cinn-Corbin Division. I have no personal knowledge of the incident but I do know how CSX operates.  They do not like other agencies on thier property and like to settle things in house. I do find it curious the the locomotive picture has the Engine Numbers blacked out.  With thhose numbers I could go online with CSX and get the entire history of that locomotive down to the price paid for it. It would show the date placed in service and any matinence done on itl  I would reall like to learn more about this incident. Another thing is how did the locomotives get moved from the Paintville Yard overnight.  A truck would not be big enough and I don't know of any trailer that could carry 450,000 lbs of each locomotive.  They had to move by rail!  No crane around would be big enough to lift them on a trailer.  Lots of questions left for answers.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Concur with Chico's 1st paragraph above.  Thinking back over the Original Post last night - and comparing what in it seems good and what doesn't - it reads to me like a pretty good entry in a "Tall Tales" contest of some kind.

- PDN.

[Steam Is King]

Let me get this straight. You want us to take this story apart and see if there are any holes in it? Be serious, dude. Basically it is nothing more than an anonymous liar's tale with absolutely no evidence to support it.

In the entire history of this stuff, which dates back to 1947, there have been over a hundred thousand reports and not one has been satisfactorily proven. Not even close.

While I think this stuff is all hooey, I do believe in Santa Claus. Ho-ho-ho. 

Na-nu-na-nu,

Chico

[al-in-chgo]

zardoz

MP173

Sounds like an X Files episode.  I sure do miss Agents Mulder and Scully.

take us to your leader

Maybe it was Roger from American Dad ?  Same network, anyway. 

 

[zardoz]

MP173

Sounds like an X Files episode.  I sure do miss Agents Mulder and Scully.

take us to your leader

[MP173]

Sounds like an X Files episode.  I sure do miss Agents Mulder and Scully.

ed

[CShaveRR]

beaulieu

Russell, Ky to Shelbyiana is a bit odd for a loaded coal train, not impossible, but odd. The track is on a gradual climb over the distance as you climb from the Ohio River valley towards a connection with the former Clinchfield Railroad, but there might be level sections. With the Clinchfield being absorbed into Seaboard System the crew change was moved from Elkhorn City  north to Pikeville (Shelbyiana Yard). The 30 mph seems a bit high for a heavily loaded coal train with 2 units on a route with many curves and an uphill grade.

I agree--most loaded coal trains would move down to Russell, rather than away from there, over this route. On the C&O the yard was known as Shelby (silent "L" when pronounced by my favorite Pikeville native). The river, by the way (for the person who asked) would be the Big Sandy River, or the Levisa Fork of the Big Sandy further upstream.

[Anonymous]

 

Paul_D_North_Jr

Aha !  The railroad & coal mine version of "The dog ate my homework" - instead of "Boy, did we ever goof at the coal mine's tipple", it's "A  UFO did a 'hit-and-run' on our locomotive !"  

I think you've got it! Now the question is... Who's fault was that? The tipple operator, or somehow the railroaders? (Maybe they were supposed to make sure the track was clear before proceeding?) If it was the tipple operator's fault, I bet the railroad crew got a nice dinner that night...

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Aha !  The railroad & coal mine version of "The dog ate my homework" - instead of "Boy, did we ever goof at the coal mine's tipple", it's "A  UFO did a 'hit-and-run' on our locomotive !"  

And maybe: "The aliens even kidnapped us, too !" 

Because the response might well be:  "You know, I could believe that - because them being an intelligent life form, I can see why they'd want to send you guys back here at the earliest opportunity !"  [See the famous short story, "The Ransom of Little Red Chief", by O. Henry]

- PDN.

[beaulieu]

Damage to the locomotive shown is consistent with what happens when you hit the loading spout at a flood loading tipple. If I were to bet, this is what I think happened to the locomotives. The Tipple Operator forgot to retract the spout, or they had a malfunction.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

At 30 MPH = 44 ft./ sec., to go the 1-1/2 miles until stopping would be at least 3 minutes (at 30 MPH the whole way) - more likely close to 5 to 6 minutes to go that distance.  That's an average deceleration rate of from 0.17 MPH per second down to 0.083 MPH per second - all outrageously slow.

Also: Train goes into emergency - no lights displayed - no communications with the DS - so why wasn't throwing a fusee to warn any trains on the other track of possible fouling conditions mentioned ?

Further:  If the object was approaching that low (10 to 12 ft. above the track), why not immediately turn the headlight back on to warn it ?  How did they know it wasn't going to come right through the windshield ?

- PDN.

[Modelcar]

Speculation will no doubt run wild with this....

The 2 mile figure and in "emergency" to stop, really stood out for me and I'm not a RR'er....

[beaulieu]

Russell, Ky to Shelbyiana is a bit odd for a loaded coal train, not impossible, but odd. The track is on a gradual climb over the distance as you climb from the Ohio River valley towards a connection with the former Clinchfield Railroad, but there might be level sections. With the Clinchfield being absorbed into Seaboard System the crew change was moved from Elkhorn City  north to Pikeville (Shelbyiana Yard). The 30 mph seems a bit high for a heavily loaded coal train with 2 units on a route with many curves and an uphill grade.

[Paul_D_North_Jr]

Comments:

1)  If there were searchlights being used on the river, wouldn't that dazzle/ blind the crew from being able to estimate the size of the object, and tell whether it had windows or not ?

2)  Damage to lead locomotive - shown in photo ? - and not otherwise described, does not seem extensive for a 30 MPH impact.  For the "first impact", that's inconsistent with the heavy damage described to the cab of the trailing unit and next 2 cars.

3)  Damage to top of cab of lead loco as shown in photo is inconsistent with frontal impact at 30 MPH.  Sheet metal appears to be bent down - as if something fell on it from above - instead of being pushed back and then either up and/ or down, as it would be from an impact on that corner from the front.

4)  So how - where - when - etc., was the photo of the loco cab obtained, if they never saw it again and "national security" and all that ?

5)  No numbers painted on side of cab, or in numberboards.

6)  Working railroaders will have to tell us whether the emergency brakes will actually apply if engine and complete system "loss of power" occurs.  I could believe that might happen, considering all of the electronic control inputs to that system - alerter, signal systems, speed recorder, etc. - but, also that it doesn't occur that way.

7)  "I estimate that we hit the object at 30 mph with 16,000 trailing tons behind us. It clipped the top of our lead unit then skipped back slicing a chunk out of our trailing unit and first two coal cars. The other objects vanished.

Our emergency brakes had initiated due to the loss of power and we stopped approximately a mile and a half to two miles after impact." [emphasis added - PDN.]

That long to stop in emergency, from only 30 MPH ?  Sorry, not likely on a "water-level" grade (along a river, as stated - which one, by the way ?), even with a fully loaded coal train.  What do the working rails say ? 

Also, "initiated" emergency brakes ?  That sounds like an aviator or automotive engineer, not a railroader.  And, any railroader qualified on the territory could tell you a lot closer than within 1/2 mile how far it took his train to stop, especially in emergency from an incident like this.

8)  Nothing visible afterwards - not even the pile of coal that fell out of the 1st 2 hopper cars when they were that heavily damaged - from the tonnage, it had to have been a loaded coal train.

- Paul North.

 

[wallyworld]

 

The following article was gleaned from this site:

http://www.phantomsandmonsters.com/

Can anyone either debunk and\or add additional  information to this story that refuses to fade away? I have an open mind but this alleged account has only circulated in paranormal circles,and personally I doubt this occurred and so I thought it would be interesting to have the resident experts here take it apart and see if there are any holes in it. There are other accounts although not involving collision like the alleged C&O incident.or the Bigfoot sighting..both of which I posted earlier. If anything, railroad lore and mythology is far from being confined to the past in the tales of John Henry, all of which are seemingly being given a new context.

UFO / Train Collision - Paintsville, KY - 1/14/02 - Update

Original statement by witness: Paintsville, Kentucky -- At exactly 2:47 a.m. on January 14, 2002, while working a coal train enroute from Russell, Kentucky to Shelbiana, Kentucky, our trailing unit and first two cars were severely damaged as we struck an unknown floating or hovering object. I know it was 2:47 because my watch froze, and to this day shows that time.

Along with my watch the entire electrical systems on both locomotives went haywire. Approaching a bend near milepost 42 in an area referred to as the Wild Kingdom, for the many different types of animals spotted there, my conductor and I saw lights coming from around the way.

This ordinarily means another train is coming and will pass on the other track. The outlay of the area is this, the river, #1 track, #2 tracks and a straight up mountainside, carved out for the laying of these tracks. I killed our lights as not to blind the oncoming crew.

As we rounded the corner our onboard computer began to flash in and out, speed recorder went nuts, and both locomotives died. Alarm bells began to ring and that’s when we saw the objects. Apparently scanning the river for something. At least three objects had several "search" lights trained there, the first object hovered about 10 to 12 feet above the track.

It was metallic silver in color with multiple colored lights near the bottom and in the middle. There were no windows or openings of any kind that we could see. It was 18 to 20 feet in length and probably ten feet high.

With both engines dead as we rounded the corner we made little noise and the first object did not respond in time, I estimate that we hit the object at 30 mph with 16,000 trailing tons behind us. It clipped the top of our lead unit then skipped back slicing a chunk out of our trailing unit and first two coal cars. The other objects vanished.

Our emergency brakes had initiated due to the loss of power and we stopped approximately a mile and a half to two miles after impact. Our power restored after we were stopped and we notified our dispatcher, located in Jacksonville, Florida of what had happened.

We were told to inspect the cars to see if they'd hold the rail and try to limp into milepost cmg 60 which used to be the Paintsville yard which is no longer in full operation. We checked everything out and the cab of the rear locomotive was demolished and smoking, the second two cars looked as if they had been hit with a giant hammer, but looked like they'd hold the rail.

We pulled into Paintsville yard at approximately 5:15 am. The huge overhead lights lining the yard were noticeably dark and the only lights came from what we assumed were railroad officials vehicles parked near the end of the track. We pulled to a stop and began unloading our grips off the wounded train. We could hear what sounded like an army of workers immediately tending to our train.

Vehicle doors slamming, guys running by in weird outfits and lights glaring from all directions, the one thing missing was railroad officials.

A guy named Ferguson shook my hand and asked me to follow him into the old yard office. We did, once inside they, and by they I mean I have no idea who these people were, began to ask us hundreds of questions, they then told us for our own protection we'd be medically tested before we could leave.

I asked repeatedly to talk to my road foreman or trainmaster and not only were these requests denied but they confiscated my conductor’s cellular phone.

Hours later we were led outside the old yard office and the strange things continued to happen, the 2 locomotives and two cars were removed from the rest of the train we had brought in and my only guess was parked 4 tracks over under a huge tent like structure buzzing with activity.

We were led off the property and told, due to national security, our silence on this matter would be appreciated.

We were then put in a railroad vehicle and taken to Martin, Kentucky were we went through questioning again with railroad officials and were then drug tested. After all of this we were sent on to Shelbiana, where we took rest for 8 hours and worked another train back to Russell. Working back we passed by Paintsville, no sign of the engines, cars, tent, people, nothing.

UPDATE - this interesting account is from a nearby resident:

I live near Paintsville, actually in an rural community 9 miles North of the town. I'm pretty well tied in to the community and monitor EMS/Police/Fire frequently. Our local Ham club works with and has members from local EM agencies and I just heard about this incident today.

The railroads around here (CSX) pretty much take care of their own business. Very little is ever mentioned of a railway incident. If someone is hit and killed on the tracks, there may be a mention on the local news but that's about it. Our local news does not really seek the story. If you call with a story, they might print it but no in depth reporting. My supervisor knows more than I do about the goings on in town and he had not heard of this either.

It is possible for this to have happened and have been kept quiet, especially if it happened between two towns like Russell and Paintsville. There is a lot of the river bank that is not visible to the public through this area.

I happen to know a gentleman who works for them as a safety engineer. I will try and contact the individual and ask him about this. We spoke last year so I think if he knew about it, he would have told me.

NOTE: the original statement seems credible and the newer information is understandable. My father has ties to the railroad industry and confirms that their security is very tight overall. If anyone has additional information on this incident, I would love to see it.