Why Bergie killed "George Bush's Hostility Toward Amtrak and recent Wrecks"

[Bergie]

When I was a kid, my father once told me to never discuss politics with friends... it would never lead to anything but trouble.

It was one of the greatest things he ever taught me, and I try to relay that message to as many people as possible... granted, I never thought I'd want/need/have to use it in a place like this.

Why did I delete that thread? Because it was filled with political opinions that can't be substantiated and are based on deep political ideologies. Bottom line: that thread wasn't going to do any of us any good. I never try to override our users' opinions, but in the case of politics we could go on for days, resolve nothing, and be bitter at each other in the end. Do we really want that? I hope not.

Have a great day, everybody.

Your pal (who hates playing the roll of the enforcer),
Bergie

[Kozzie]

Thanks Bergie, I agree wholeheartedly. This is a Train Forum after all.

Kozzie

[tree68]

Gee, Bergie, we sure are keeping you busy.....

[vsmith]

Bergie,

For my part I was asked a straightforward questions by another member of this forum and I gave an honest answer. I stated my opinion and clearly stated it as nothing more, if it offended anyone I apologize for that.

As we get closer to November I wont be surprised by more threads that bring politics and trains together. Its just that time of season.

I will try in future to hold my political opinions to Pizza toppings only.

[wallyworld]

One of my kids were talking to me when I logged on and I forgot to put on my bifocals.
I thought the post said "Why Bergie Killed George Bush.." I'm glad there's someone in
some form of reality albeit cyberspace who can seperate politics from human affairs.
I wish I could do that with my TV remote control or ffor that matter, at times mute my father in law.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

One of my kids were talking to me when I logged on and I forgot to put on my bifocals.
I thought the post said "Why Bergie Killed George Bush.." I'm glad there's someone in
some form of reality albeit cyberspace who can seperate politics from human affairs.
I wish I could do that with my TV remote control or ffor that matter, at times mute my father in law.

BERGIE KILLED GEORGE BUSH!!!!!!!!!!

I knew it...
...murderer....
...probably killed Kenny too....

.........quatro formaggio pizza per favor e birra Bass........

[Kozzie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

One of my kids were talking to me when I logged on and I forgot to put on my bifocals.
I thought the post said "Why Bergie Killed George Bush.." I'm glad there's someone in
some form of reality albeit cyberspace who can seperate politics from human affairs.
I wish I could do that with my TV remote control or ffor that matter, at times mute my father in law.

BERGIE KILLED GEORGE BUSH!!!!!!!!!!

I knew it...
...murderer....
...probably killed Kenny too....

.........quatro formaggio pizza per favor e birra Bass........

hey dharmon, is that Spanish? Something about 4 cheese pizzas? [:)] [%-)][%-)]

Kozzie

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kozzie

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

One of my kids were talking to me when I logged on and I forgot to put on my bifocals.
I thought the post said "Why Bergie Killed George Bush.." I'm glad there's someone in
some form of reality albeit cyberspace who can seperate politics from human affairs.
I wish I could do that with my TV remote control or ffor that matter, at times mute my father in law.

BERGIE KILLED GEORGE BUSH!!!!!!!!!!

I knew it...
...murderer....
...probably killed Kenny too....

.........quatro formaggio pizza per favor e birra Bass........

hey dharmon, is that Spanish? Something about 4 cheese pizzas? [:)] [%-)][%-)]

Kozzie

EYE'-tally -in

[Anonymous]

There's been a lot of hot topics lately, some are bound to not be appropriate.

Good to see the forum is healthy and active, though.

[DSchmitt]

Bergie THANKYOU

[:D]

[locomutt]

Bergie,Thank You!!!!!!!

locomutt & cherokee woman

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Bergie,

Perhaps I'm going against the grain, but I am surprised that you intervened in this one. Though perhaps a tad "hot" VSmith expressed himself without pretenses or threatening anyone. I was curious about his view and, believe it or not, I found some portions of his answer worth "checking out". No offense taken at all. In his reply Vsmith didn't insult me or anyone else on the forum for that matter.

This forum has been a lot of fun and educational. Politics are part of the railroading scene and we can get slightly off topic sometimes, but censoring this thread "cold turkey?"....[sigh]................ Well, Bergie, you are in command here and I must respect your decision. It wasn't my intention to start a "ruckus".

VSmith, thank you anyway for willing to "let the rubber on your tires meet the road" in your response to my question. [;)][tup]

I hope to continue contributing to the MRR and TRAINS thread. I've benefited a lot; hope others can benefit from me as well. [8)][;)][8D][:)][:p]

10-4 and God Bless!

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworld

One of my kids were talking to me when I logged on and I forgot to put on my bifocals.
I thought the post said "Why Bergie Killed George Bush.."

That is knee slappin' hilarious! Occassionally, something in this forum makes me laugh out loud. You just succeded in doing that, Wally. Well done! [:D]

Now I have to go downstairs and explain to my wife what's so funny (at home now).

Bravo,
Bergie

[Anonymous]

The minute i saw that thread I figured you would delete it.

Uh-Oh.. I did it too! One of my threads got a little political a while ago, if you remember "And you thought you were ripped off", Bergie.

[Anonymous]

Thank you. I have gotten into deap political arguments in person, Id hate to have gotten dragged into a hot area on there.

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hello Bergie,

This forum has been a lot of fun and educational. Politics are part of the railroading scene and we can get slightly off topic sometimes, but censoring this thread "cold turkey?"....[sigh]................ Well, Bergie, you are in command here and I must respect your decision. It wasn't my intention to start a "ruckus".

Just to let you know, that thread was brought to my attention by a user who, for better or worse, thought it was either already out of hand, or was only going to get there. I'd hardly say it was cold turkey. Cold turkey would have been deleting it before anyone had a chance to respond.

I hate to have to defend myself or be the bad guy in the first place. Almost every time I delete a thread, which is EXTREMELY rare, at least one person disagrees with the decision... I guess that's only natural. Now granted, I've had to delete something in here twice within the past week, but if you look at the overall number of threads and posts within this forum, you'll know that a lot of things can take place without me taking action.

All it was going to take for that thread to turn into an all-out political rampage was for some republican to step up and remind everyone that Bill Clinton wasn't the most honest president either... remember "I have no specific recollection" or (while pointing right at your face...) "Listen to me. I had no sexual relations with that women." If either of those would have been dropped, the gloves would have been off and there'd be a lot of things typed that people would have regretted a week from now. It would have gotten us nowhere.

I don't care if we talk about politics as they relate to railroading, so don't think I'm going to delete all political posts. The thread I delete dealt more in political opinions than how politics affect railroads.

Walk a mile in my shoes. It's not easy making some of these decisions... mostly because I don't want to alienate anyone. There's a fine line that must be walked and there's not always an answer that's going to please everyone.

Bottom line, you guys are great and I hold nothing against anyone (to date). Well, then again, there was this guy from Missouri one time. [:)]

Bergie

[Mikeygaw]

...probably killed Kenny too....

oh my god! he killed Kenny! You ****!

(sorry, i had to get that in... i watch that show way too much)

[pmsteamman]

Bergie, i was reading the tread when you axed it. I thought my computer went haywire.

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by pmsteamman

Bergie, i was reading the tread when you axed it. I thought my computer went haywire.

Sorry about that. Next time, I'll lock it, then delete it a few minutes later.

Bergie

[RudyRockvilleMD]

I wholeheartedly agree your decision to axe the thread, "George Bush's Hostility Toward Amtrak and Recent Wrecks." That thread was not only filled with unsubstantiatable political opinions, it was ridiculous and irresponsible.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, Bergie.

[BR60103]

Bergie, I saw the post with just a couple of replies. I couldn't decide if it was a rant or a parody of a rant. There was not enough indication that it was humorous, so I think it comes under the guidelines of stuff that you can remove.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Hello Bergie,

Perhaps I'm going against the grain, but I am surprised that you intervened in this one. Though perhaps a tad "hot" VSmith expressed himself without pretenses or threatening anyone. I was curious about his view and, believe it or not, I found some portions of his answer worth "checking out". No offense taken at all. In his reply Vsmith didn't insult me or anyone else on the forum for that matter.

This forum has been a lot of fun and educational. Politics are part of the railroading scene and we can get slightly off topic sometimes, but censoring this thread "cold turkey?"....[sigh]................ Well, Bergie, you are in command here and I must respect your decision. It wasn't my intention to start a "ruckus".

VSmith, thank you anyway for willing to "let the rubber on your tires meet the road" in your response to my question. [;)][tup]

I hope to continue contributing to the MRR and TRAINS thread. I've benefited a lot; hope others can benefit from me as well. [8)][;)][8D][:)][:p]

10-4 and God Bless!

Antonio,

Glad you at least got to read my posts before they got axed! [;)]

I will try not to express my political view points here, it can get too messy. [:D]

[edblysard]

If you dig back into the archives, you can find quite a few very heated political and religious debates, which had absolutly nothing to do with trains, railfanning, or any aspect of the industry.

Some were about politics, some were about religions, some were even about grammer, punctutation and spelling, (all of which I do badly)
Some, I started, and some I added to.

There was even a debate over weather things mentioned on this forum had to deal with railroading, or face being deleted.

What happened in the end was that as long as personal attacks were left out, and the debate served some useful purpose, it was pretty much left alone, and left up to us to police the contents.

Look at the "Derailed love" thread, about the only thing mentioned towards trains was Mookie's very funny poke at GE.

Point being, it is causing no one harm, is generating a lot of postings, and some good advice for a fellow forum member, so its a pretty safe bet it will be left alone.

The Humor thread is another example, it went away from trains a long, long time ago, but it provides a place for us to tell our really bad jokes.

Then the M&M twins showed up, and pretty much earned the utter contempt of just about every forum member, and I would suspect, the staff at Kalmbach.
I also suspect that not a soul here lost one minute of sleep when Erik deleted the whole thing, and expelled thoses two.

Now, I am a big defender of free speech, and the right of a individule to express themselves, and this is a public forum, in a manner.

But, lest we forget, even though Trains.Com dosnt charge us for the use of this forum, it is their property, and in reality, it is their right to edit it as they see fit.

Bergie has other people to answer to, and other groups who's interest he has to look after, people and groups we dont even think about, like the folks who advertise in the magazines Kalmbach publish, and those who advertise here on the forum.

Consider too, that some of the forum members are very young people.

After all, this is a business, really, and this forum is provided not only to give you, the railfan, a place to come and discuss trains, but it is also intended to get you, the railfan, even more interested in trains, model railroading, railfanning and the products sold for that hobby, there by generating business for those who are footing the bill for this in the first place.

So Bergie is in a very uncomfortable position at times, run the risk of upsetting us, and deleting a thread that is generating a heated discussion, or run the risk of upsetting his bosses, and the people who pay to advertise here and in Kalmbach's publications, by letting that thread run on.

I for one, dont envy him his position one bit.

While we may view this as a public forum, it really is a private club, with us as the members.

We pay our membership dues every time one of us buys one of the magazines, or a product sold in said magazines or on this forum.

I dont remember being asked to pay a dime to use this site, so I figure the cost of designing and hosting this site has to come out of someones budget at Kalmbach, which gives them to right to do with this forum as they choose.

While I may not agree sometimes with Erik's choice to give something the boot, I back him up, and will defend his right to do so, after all, its their property.

Ed

[mudchicken]

amen....and I was ignoring the thread just because of the thread title.

[Anonymous]

Well, I to for one, am going to sound like i'm going against the Grane.

It has been sucessfully done for many years, the discussion of politics between firends. If it had not been, Politics would not have survived much past the roman empire.

Discussion is key. Key is discussion.

Erik, I agree with Ed though, It is somewhat your mandate to make sure somehting is in check, and if someone complained about it, action must be taken and it is not your fault, nor am i criticizing you.

But still I am worried, I have noticed a fair bit of change recently- in the last month and a bit,i have noticed more threads being deleted then i have in the last many months.

I hope that if I post somehting that isn't appropriate, Instead of complaining right to the Executives, they send me an E-mail telling me how they don't like my post, Rememebr, That type of behavior should be encouraged, We try not to call the police if someone leaves their dog barking for five minutes more then it should be. Forum executives should only be contacted in an Emergency, And i would much perfer getting an e-mail from a forum member, then i would form any executive, No offence Erik.

This "Tattle-to-the-president" has me somewhat bewildered, I was always brough up like so: Go get an adult if your life or property is in danger, otherwise attempt to solve the problem yourself.

I'm not sure what the thread was on, I didn't get to see it myself- which is a pitty. Like i said a few paragraphs above, I see no progression in the way things are being handeled on this forum; matter of fact; it's strictly regression.

Remember, In order to make new things socially acceptable someone has to deviate from the crowd.

So, yes, i am margianally worried, Eventually, and at the rate WE the memebrs are regressing, By 2009, the requiremnts for this site will be Blond hair and Blue eyes to post on this forum.

I don''t encourage this type of behavior that was sjut demonstrated (No, not you Erik, the complainer) If you really have a problem Take it out with the person, it helps, and it is slightly more anaynomous.

If i had a problem with any of you, and the way you posted- I'd complain to you first; this is the way the lader is supposed to go, your supposed to climb rung by rung, Not jump from the ground straight to the 33rd rung.


You have to understand where i am comming from when I post this: I live in a society where if you don't like somehting, change the channel or move on, overt your eyes, don't go and complain because it won't be tolerated.

For instane.. ever tried complaining to the CRTC regulatory board for Canadian TV? yeah, you write a compalin to them about what you saw on Tv, and in most cases you'll get an -email back saying somehting along these lines: Your Tv comes with a remote, if you don'ty like it, your entitled to that belief or opinion, simply change the channel, ecept they have a knack for saying that in a 3 page e-mail, and use bigger words then I did.

Thjats simply where i stand, And Erik, i'm not faulting you in any way, shape, or form.

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman


So, yes, i am margianally worried, Eventually, and at the rate WE the memebrs are regressing, By 2009, the requiremnts for this site will be Blond hair and Blue eyes to post on this forum.

Kevin, that's ridiculous. You didn't even read the thread so how can you come in and make a statement like that?

You may view it as regressing, but I view it as progressing. Do you know why more things have been deleted in the past two months than were deleted over the previous year? Because my call for all of you to let me know about inappropriate behavior is working. (Granted, most dealt with personal attacks, poor language, etc... but that's why I think it's progressing, because that kind of unwanted banter isn't sticking around the site for long.)

A year ago, a lot of inappropriate topics flew under the radar because I didn't (and still don't) have time to read every single post. That's why I ask all of you to help by pointing out inappropriate posts. That's what's happening, and that's why I've been deleting more threads. It's not because of my master plan to get you all to conform to some set of standards that I've set. That's ridiculous.

Erik

[edblysard]

Erik,
I dont think Kevin was stating that you had some standard that you personally wanted to enforce, he did use the phrase "we, the members are regressing", instead of stating that you are forcing us to conform.

I think that his comment was more along the lines of,
"If there is no diversity, no oddball, and someone dosnt throw a monkey wrench into the works every once in a while, things get boring, and we all begin to look and sound the same".

I noted he conceeded the fact that you have a job to do, and that while he may not like it when you excercise your duty, he understand why you have too, and he dosnt plan to complain about it.

I though you had a frenglish dictionary?

Ed

[Anonymous]

Well If I may,

Erik, you took Kevin out of context. Honestly, that is how problems are started- Someone writes something and it is taken out of context.

Try Reading it a second time, and see if you draw the same conclusion.

If your not sure, always read something a second time [:)]

And if your really angry, wait an hour before you post, two hours, three hours, whatever hours.
[:)]

-Christa [:)] good morning!

Oh i do the same thing as him- when I say You, I mean You as a General You, not exactly you.

[edblysard]

Ah Hah,
So now the translator shows up, a day late and a dollar short...

Ed

(Christa, thats a complimentary joke)