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Steel ties.......

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Posted by mvlandsw on Friday, May 19, 2023 3:17 PM

CSX used steel ties in their North Baltimore, Ohio intermodal yard.

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Posted by shanson2 on Wednesday, May 17, 2023 10:32 PM

Update:  Cap Metro is replacing many of those ties as of March 2023.  There's a five-mile slow order between Bertram (TX) and Summit.

Steve Hanson  past volunteer, Austin & Texas Central Railroad

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Posted by dldance on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 7:11 PM

A couple of years ago, during a rehab in Echo canyon I also noticed some steel ties.  Perhaps they were going under switches. But a current job here is Brigham City has wood ties stacked for the switches.

dd

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Posted by Flint Hills Tex on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 4:25 AM

Over here in Germany, there is extensive use of steel ties on branch lines and in yards. Almost all main lines use concrete ties, except the high-speed corridors, which are now using solid-bed concrete technology.

Out here we...pay no attention to titles or honors or whatever because we have found they don't measure a man.... A man is what he is, and what he is shows in his actions. I do not ask where a man came from or what he was...none of that is important. -Louis Lámour "Shalako"
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Posted by Cribbercat on Friday, October 31, 2008 10:51 PM

Going to start a job monday 11-03-08 where we will be rehabing some main line track in Wyoming.  As we were unloading the tamper I noticed bundles of steel switch ties we are going to install when we rehab the switches. 

I operate a PJ 6700 brand switch tamper (S model) and yes the ballast tools and vibrators have to be in top condition to work steel ties.  Hopefully the ballast we will use will be of good quality, (2-3 inch crushed stone) and not round crusher run.  It takes a while to fill the void under the tie as you have to pack the s--- out em to do it.  Eats ballast right up.  Plus the whole tie gets tamped in the switch, not just the bearing portion uner the rail.

Will be putting in wood ties on the main for the rehab.  Then the PJ can rock and roll.  136 LB jointed rail and will stick wood under the joints.

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Posted by matthewsaggie on Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:36 PM

Last summer NS used steel ties to rebuild the small 3 track yard they operate next to the Raleigh NC Amtrak station.

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Posted by rrboomer on Monday, October 27, 2008 11:26 PM

CP used steel ties through the tunnel at Tunnel City, WI in order to gain an extra three or so inches of vertical clearance.  They've been there about five years, the application is only about 1400' long.

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, October 27, 2008 10:33 PM

Same tamping tool .... Just hope the tool is not worn too bad and hope the oscillating vibrator (electric or hydraulic) is working well, otherwise you're going nowhere fast.

Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by txhighballer on Monday, October 27, 2008 4:54 PM

Thanks for all the replies guys! Does the tamper need any special attachments to tamp them or can they just be tamped like you can with wood ties?

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Posted by Cribbercat on Friday, October 24, 2008 10:46 PM

Have had to surface track where steel ties were used to replace wood ties.  Nasty ties to have to tamp up.  More ballast required to be "squeezed" under them as they are in an inverted U and have to be filled with material.  Wood ties can be surfaced using 2-3 insertions of the tamping blades as steel ties need 10-12 to fill under them.  Lots of time to hold up the surface.  Steel ties dont line as well as wood due to the end of the tie is bent down and tends to dig into the ballast and little surface area at the end of the tie to hold the rail in alignment.  Real pain in the donkey to work surface with em.

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Posted by espeefoamer on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:41 PM

In 1995 I rode a fantrip on part of the ex SP Tillamook branch,from just short of Tillamook to the summit of the grade.At the summit I noticd that steel ties were used at that location.I don't know how much of the line used steel ties,or if they are still in use there.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:54 AM

Here in PA all I've seen are the old wooden ties. Supposedly steel mills use the metal ones But I haven't been able to get a good enough look. From what I've they never really got past the experimental stages with class 1 roads though.

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Posted by spikejones52002 on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 11:35 AM

 I rode a cog rail in Zurich SW.

I had every type of tie you could conceive.

I also seen concrete and steel tie along the C.S.S. & S.B.

But a couple of days ago. I watched them replace wood with wood.

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Posted by lenzfamily on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 10:59 AM

Tyler

Interesting you should say this. You're right. I've certainly seen the concrete ties on tight curves etc close to the highway, but am also quite sure I've also seen piles of wooden ties for installation in tangent locations in the last year as well. Perhaps I'm imagining things but I remember being surprised at the time about the mixture of ties as I recall RWM saying they don't 'mix well' if I can put it that way.

Charlie

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Posted by dknelson on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 8:11 AM

Steel ties are used in steel mills where wood ties would be subject to the heat of spilled loads.  I have also seen steel ties used in strategically important turnouts in the BNSF yard in Galesburg IL perhaps in the theory, or the hope, that they would allow the turnout to be used longer without being taken out of service as often as a wood tie turnout would be.  Whether it works out that way or not I do not know.

I do recall reading that some of the initial enthusiasm for steel ties came from the cost accounting department.  I am a bit fuzzy on the issue, and my semester of basic accounting in college is far in my past, but the scrap or resale value of a steel tie helped out on balance sheet issues when valuing the property or running a depreciation schedule or some such other accounting magic that has helped make our economy the wonderful engine of growth and happiness that it is today.

Dave Nelson 

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Posted by jrbernier on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 7:02 AM

The DM&IR and several other USS roads did use steel ties on a limited basis in the US.  As far as signaling, shouldered insulators may work.  I have seen steel ties in some industrial trackage....

Jim

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Posted by enr2099 on Wednesday, October 22, 2008 5:45 AM

lenzfamily

RWM

Interesting you should mention that BCR uses these steel ties in mainline heavy loading. FYI, CN has pulled many of these steel ties between N Vancouver and Whistler BC (and perhaps further) and replaced them with wooden ties.

 

 

On the Squamish Sub CN has been replacing the steel ties with concrete ones. The wood ties were done by BC Rail before the CN takeover, so I'm told.

Tyler W. CN hog
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Posted by lenzfamily on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 11:25 PM

RWM

Interesting you should mention that BCR uses these steel ties in mainline heavy loading. FYI, CN has pulled many of these steel ties between N Vancouver and Whistler BC (and perhaps further) and replaced them with wooden ties. This has been done within the last 12 months. I wondered about this (travelling this way regularly) but having seen other threads about steel tie's ability to withstand heavy loads without shifting etc, I can see why they have been replaced by wooden ties in mainline service especially since CN tends to load heavy and long (up to the 80 car limit) even with the federal Transport Minister's order to limit train length.

Charlie

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 9:10 AM

A couple of places where steel ties do work well are both industrial track scenarios where the track is completely encased in concrete, and no track circuit signals are involved, such as 1.) Grade crossing, of poured-in-place concrete; and, 2.) track inside a building. 

If signals are present at the grade crossings, they are (almost ?) always (switch) "key-operated" / controlled, so no "island" or other track circuits are involved that the steel ties could shunt.  

The tracks in buildings is usually down in a "track well" that is depressed below the main floor level (typically by the same distance as the standard boxcar floor height above the rail of 44" = 3'-8", so that the boxcar floor is pretty much flush with the main floor level, sometime 4" more if insulated boxcars are to be used).  However, occasionally the track is right in the main floor. 

In both instances the steel ties enable a pretty good reduction in the thickness of the concrete slab for the track.  If memory serves, the base slab / pour is usually 12" thick, and the top/ 2nd slab/ pour - if done with wood ties - would range from 12" (for 100 lb. rail & 6" x 8" No. 3 size ties) to around 15" (for 130 lb. rail & 7" x 9" No. 5 size ties).  These are comparatively huge dimensions for concrete slab thicknesses, and if steel ties are used - typcially only around 2" thick/ high - the thickness of the top/ 2nd slab/ pour can be reduced accordingly, by 4" to 5", which can be a significant savings if the involved floor area or track length is large enough.

The track circuit problem may not be relevant to a trolley system, where the opposite rails are often joined together anyway (such as by gage rods).  Also, I understand that the trolley signal circuits are or can be either tied into the overhead wires instead, or else governed by the resistance (= distance) from the signal to the car, so steel ties may also have an application there.

Haven't ever seen any steel ties in main line railroad service, but I can believe what RWM says above regarding that.

- Paul North.

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Posted by Limitedclear on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 8:40 AM

One other major issue with steel ties is the significant cost differential between steel ties and good old wood. Steel ties also don't fare as well as wood in a derailment scenario. Not as bad as concrete, but not as good as wood.

LC

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Posted by Railway Man on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 1:39 AM

 I have experience with them.

Steel ties have been used extensively on light-loading gauge railways in the Middle East and Africa.  BCR used them extensively on heavy-loading gauge applications.  The only other railway I know of that has made extensive main track use in the U.S. is Austin & Northwestern (Cap Metro).  They are used to some extent in industrial applications, particularly where corrosive environments are an issue.  To some extent people have tried them in-face with wood ties in heavy-curve applications where gauge-holding is an issue.

I don't know anyone who has tried them in main track applications, regardless of loading gauge, that has had a happy experience.  It's very difficult to hold surface and line with steel ties.  They do not have enough surface area to interact with the ballast and as a result the track skates around on top of the ballast.  Curves shift to the outside.  (I think this is what you mean by "hold the ballast" as it's not the tie's job to hold the ballast; it's the other way around.) 

Steel ties have had shoulder-cracking issues in heavy loading-gauge applications, which is fatal to the tie.  And, as you mention, there is the difficulty with maintaining insulation integrity between the rail and the tie to avoid signal system shunts, which is a significant problem with grade-crossing signals as well as wayside signals.

RWM

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Steel ties.......
Posted by txhighballer on Monday, October 20, 2008 11:40 PM

Anybody have any experience with them,good or bad? Are they appropritte for mail line use? I'm not a track guy,but I am not enamored with them...to me it seems like they don't have enough surface area to hold the rail and the ballast where it needs to be, and signal activation would seem to be an issue. any thoughts?

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