I take my kids out to watch trains on a regular basis, and the crews wave every time...never had a negative interaction with a railroader.
Back in the 70s I even got a look inside the cab of one of Canada's only two GP30s...all the engineer told my brother and I was "be careful and don't touch anything". A few hours later we got the same cordial treatment at CN in Richmond Quebec...got a cab tour of then new CN M420s. Negative railroaders...there aren't any..
I can certainly understand zugmann's post. A person in charge of corporate assets of that nature and magnitude, and approaching a crossing, ought to be fully intent on his/her terms of reference. At other times, when it seems reasonable and in keeping with one's nature/personality/current demeanor/interests, (...etc...) to acknowledge a good wish or a greeting, why the heck not? I would feel nearly obliged to acknowledge someone who indicated warmth and admiration for what I was doing when they signified it with a brisk hand wave and a smile.
Further, I find that it is very much a part of our macho culture for many males to forego the smile when they greet someone...if they greet someone. Women are much less "inhibited", in my experience, and exude a warmth that we men like, but won't often return....no, make that initiate. We often return a warm greeting, especially if it is from a woman (mom, with kids, cute younger female), but I find men reluctant to show warmth to other males. I wonder if it's true in your business.
-Crandell
I'll be honest, I do wave a lot - to railfans, kids, women, cars ful of people waving their wrists off, but I do not agree that we have any obligation to wave. Another observation - when I see a railfan's car near a x-ing, my attetnion is focused there. So if you're across the tracks or down the tracks a little, I may not even notice you. Don't take it personally..
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann wrote: zardoz wrote: This has nothing to do with who's paying who for what. Yes it does. I do my job - that job does not involve waving to a bunch of railfans too engrossed in their railpicture.net photo to wave back. Now the ones that are out having fun, sure I wave...
zardoz wrote: This has nothing to do with who's paying who for what.
This has nothing to do with who's paying who for what.
Yes it does. I do my job - that job does not involve waving to a bunch of railfans too engrossed in their railpicture.net photo to wave back. Now the ones that are out having fun, sure I wave...
I did not realize you were refering to foamers.
My apologies.
And FWIW, I agree: if they do not acknowledge you, there is no reason to acknowledge them.
Dan
zugmann wrote:...that job does not involve waving to a bunch of railfans too engrossed in their railpicture.net photo to wave back.
Think of it this way - you'd probably be messing up their perfect roster shot....
All this talk about waving. IIRC, the initial topic here was interactions with railroaders, such as the business owner who switched his business to trucks or someone who happens upon a RR employee in an acceptable place (ie, not trespassing).
This is all about public relations.
We got a complaint one time from a patron who was waiting in line to buy tickets for one of our trips. Her gripe had nothing to do with the railroad, the service, or anything else along that line. She complained because the ticket seller, in speaking to a customer at the window buying tickets, made a mildly political statement with which she disagreed. In fact, she felt so strongly about it that she sent a letter (or was it an email?) to the general manager, garnering all of us a warning to watch what we said in earshot of the public.
Being cordial to people never lost anyone a customer. If you're busy and don't see someone waving to you, no problem. If you see them, there's no harm in acknowledging them. A simple nod will do. Smile if you're having a good day. If it's a face to face and you're busy, say so. Most people understand.
When I'm driving an emergency vehicle through an intersection, I want to see everyone's eyes - because then I know they saw me.
And as has been pointed out, railfans are hardly unique. People like to watch all kinds of big machinery in use. Why do you think they put those viewing ports in the fences at city construction sites?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
I met a guy in a museum, a conductor. He wasn't mean, but he came off rough. MAybe he was just testing mme to see if I was really serious, maybe it was just the way he was wired. That's the closest I;ve had. I've tyalekd to guys waiting for clearence, a guy waiting fo his brake pressure to cycle back so he could move thrain, or I tried. It diddn't work, yelling over and SD60.
One of the things I want to do in railroading is spark the same magic in other youngsters that I've been fortunate to have. From waving at the gates to the platform "You wanna see inside? sure. We just gotta wai for the people to pile in"
-Morgan
One word for that person: petty.
Probably spent more money swtiching to trucks... so his priorities are screwed up. Want someone to act like casey jones? Fine. But I would rather have someone who could switch my cars out, gruff or not.
zugmann wrote: My paycheck says: "brought to you by our customers".Not: "brought to you by those whose day you made happier".
My paycheck says: "brought to you by our customers".
Not: "brought to you by those whose day you made happier".
If it wasn't for John Doe, Jane Doe, their cousin Cookie Doe and the rapper in the family Doe a Deer, buying the goods that traverse the railroads, purchasing the power from the utilities. John Q. Public working in the auto plant where they receive the parts from the railroads. Ect......
Who pays the railroad to deliver the goods and in turn, pays the railroad employees?
I tried googling a story about a company in the midwest somewhere that shipped out about 3,000 carloads and received about the same,a year via rail. The guy that owned the company was an avid railfan and one day he went out and watched the railroad switch them out. The crew was rude and told the guy to get a real job instead of watching them. The guy was on HIS (company)property that HE owned. Long story short (man i wish i could find it), in the following weeks, he switched what he could over to trucks. That there in itself, cancelled out that extra job that was needed to switch that plant/business. I guess what im saying is "you never know who that person is that is watching your train". Could be an insane foamer, to a person thats watching his loads go by, to a person that is just out on a walk decided to give a friendly wave.
As i wrap this up, that story has to do with the WC and how the railroad is customer oriented. Worried customers about the impending CN takeover. Had to do with major railroads merging.
http://www.youtube.com/user/pavabo
http://www.flickr.com/photos/paulvbox
I'll wave to that
zardoz wrote:This has nothing to do with who's paying who for what.
zardoz wrote: This has nothing to do with who's paying who for what.I fully understand why a train crew person does not wave: many of them are tired, have lost their wives, feel like crap, and are caught between the rock and hard place of a railroad that wants to skimp on safety and the Feds that watch a railroader to be sure they follow all those safety rules. And it seems that 'these days' many of the railroad employees look at railroading as "just a job". They cannot imagine anyone actually being interested in a railroad for anything other than a (rather nice) paycheck. Those of you that are both rails AND railfans know exactly what I'm talking about. You can tell at work when your coworker is just 'doing their job' compared to someone who actually enjoys their work. The engineers in the first group are fond of using the phrase, "A bad engineer gets paid the same as a good one". They have no pride in their work (or themselves, either). What I DO NOT understand is why someone who visits a RAILFAN forum would be so down on being nice to a FELLOW railfan.
I fully understand why a train crew person does not wave: many of them are tired, have lost their wives, feel like crap, and are caught between the rock and hard place of a railroad that wants to skimp on safety and the Feds that watch a railroader to be sure they follow all those safety rules. And it seems that 'these days' many of the railroad employees look at railroading as "just a job". They cannot imagine anyone actually being interested in a railroad for anything other than a (rather nice) paycheck.
Those of you that are both rails AND railfans know exactly what I'm talking about. You can tell at work when your coworker is just 'doing their job' compared to someone who actually enjoys their work. The engineers in the first group are fond of using the phrase, "A bad engineer gets paid the same as a good one". They have no pride in their work (or themselves, either).
What I DO NOT understand is why someone who visits a RAILFAN forum would be so down on being nice to a FELLOW railfan.
Your posts insisting that I wave at people are not making me happy.
And I'm not even a rail..
RRKen wrote: zardoz wrote: So, RRKen and all the other grouches here, I ask you: how can you act like a railfan (you are here on a railfan forum) in your spare time, but act like a sourpuss to those other railfans who are actually just like you? I'm not saying you should almost fall out of the window giving railfans a big 'highball', but a simple nod or little wave might go a long way towards making someone happy? Is that too much to ask?I aint no grouch. I am not like the rest of you.I am working, and direct my efforts to that.I do not wave to those I do not know, or have any affiliation with.I do not wave. I do not wave.I do not wave.
zardoz wrote: So, RRKen and all the other grouches here, I ask you: how can you act like a railfan (you are here on a railfan forum) in your spare time, but act like a sourpuss to those other railfans who are actually just like you? I'm not saying you should almost fall out of the window giving railfans a big 'highball', but a simple nod or little wave might go a long way towards making someone happy? Is that too much to ask?
So, RRKen and all the other grouches here, I ask you: how can you act like a railfan (you are here on a railfan forum) in your spare time, but act like a sourpuss to those other railfans who are actually just like you? I'm not saying you should almost fall out of the window giving railfans a big 'highball', but a simple nod or little wave might go a long way towards making someone happy? Is that too much to ask?
1. Yes, you are (see #4,#5,#6,#7)
2. Yes you are (inasmuch as regards railfanning)
3. You can't wave while operating?? Gee, you must run on an incredibly undulating track profile, with hogbacks every 1/4 mile, 9-degree curves every mile, with multiple slow orders and Form G orders, and 15000 tons of mis-matched train blocking, if you are so busy in the cab that you can't spare 2 seconds to make someone a little happier.
The only "mean" encounter that I recall happened about 1969 or 1970. I was taking pictures with a Yashica twin-lens reflex camera around the south end of Espee's passenger terminal in downtown San Francisco. Some "mechanical types," i.e., carmen, machinists, or mechanical foremen, shooed me away in a rather stern tone of voice. Of course I was much younger then, and I seem to recall the time was around the evening rush hour, so maybe they were more concerned about my safety than I realized.
On a lighter note ... a MoPac trainmaster once told me that whenever a trainmen gives a wave with a bare hand outside a caboose window, he's actually giving you "the finger" five times over!
RRKen wrote: Harry_Runyon wrote: I will not wave at a car...I wil not wave from a bar...I will not wave from a siding...I will not wave while you are riding..... Burma Shave!
Harry_Runyon wrote: I will not wave at a car...I wil not wave from a bar...I will not wave from a siding...I will not wave while you are riding.....
I will not wave at a car...
I wil not wave from a bar...
I will not wave from a siding...
I will not wave while you are riding.....
Burma Shave!
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
I will not wave from a bar...
LOL @this thread.
I had my first mean encounter in years last week. A female CPR crew member who seemed to be riding in the engineer's seat into Shoreham at University East gave me the palm on the bicep gesture.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Erie Lackawanna wrote: Then, there was a third guy... young guy... who not only would not allow me up (well, I assume, I never tried when he was on duty)... but if he saw me there, he would throw things out the window at me. Mind you, I never once had a conversation with him, and he had no reason to dislike me. He just enjoyed being a jerk.
Then, there was a third guy... young guy... who not only would not allow me up (well, I assume, I never tried when he was on duty)... but if he saw me there, he would throw things out the window at me. Mind you, I never once had a conversation with him, and he had no reason to dislike me. He just enjoyed being a jerk.
Too bad you didn't get some video of him littering as he threw stuff at you--get his sorry butt reprimanded!!
===============================================================
I always waved and/or tooted (local laws permitting) at railfans.
When I was young, it meant so much to me to have a train crewman acknowledge my presence; after all, they were my heroes, doing something I could (as a kid) only dream of doing. Years later, I got my dream job of being an Engineer. And knowing what it meant to me as a railfan to be given a friendly nod by the train crew, how could I do less for others?
Anyway, how cool is it to be doing something for a living that other people are willing to spend their spare time watching?
CShaveRR wrote: In the preceding post, if the official were around instead of the fan, you think he wouldn't drive the conductor up to the hose that needed changing? He may have different motives, but everybody is there to get the work done.
When I met our local trainmaster, he was helping the two-man local crew double out (more like quadruple out) a lengthy train, including ferrying the conductor around. That easily cut the amount of time required for the task in half as it saved the conductor a lot of walking.
red p wrote:I didnt see any company officials on the list. Doesnt that tell you something
Yes, it tells you something, but it's not necessarily what you think it is. Oficers that a railfan encounters are usually out somewhere in the role of a troubleshooter, and if you have an encounter with them, it's because you're perceived as being trouble. In the preceding post, if the official were around instead of the fan, you think he wouldn't drive the conductor up to the hose that needed changing? He may have different motives, but everybody is there to get the work done.
You may not find many examples here, but they do exist. Look back a year and a half ago, and find Ed Blysard's Christmas tale, and note the trainmaster's role in the story.
Then look at my previous posting on this thread, and the mention of my pre-career railroading. The operative words there were "once I proved myself." They knew I could safely follow instructions and keep myself out of harm's way. Suffice it to say that one of my rides the length of the subdivision was in a caboose that also housed a trainmaster and a superintendent. We weren't exactly hiding from each other.
In my job, I encounter officers that I have no use for, but that doesn't necessarily indicate that they are "mean". They may be stupid, ignorant, or buffoons, but those are character traits that the average railfan wouldn't get a chance to see--and they aren't the exclusive domain of officers, either.
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