Railroad Accidents

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rixflix

are most of youn guys from the nra?


it's the media?
back to the the iniator of this topic
a lot of accidents
they're are
ask guys retirei

No. At least, I'm not. My concern, which Derrick also mentioned, is simply to point out that the popular media prints or shows on the tube what it thinks is going to sell. It is essentially impossible to get a balanced picture of risk -- i.e. accidents -- never mind cause from the popular media; they don't have the time, they don't have the expertise. Let's face it: a nice derailment looks real messy and goes over well in a 30 second shot and, perhaps most important, it is sufficiently unusual that the public isn't bored by it. A truck jack-knifing on the local interstate and squashing some poor mini-van is so common that nobody gives a d___, so... it's on page 4, if it shows up at all. (for instance: the traffic radio in what is currently my part of the world reports two jack-knifed trucks, a multi car accident, and a single car rollover -- all in 20 minutes this morning; will any of them make the evening news? Don't make me laugh).

Please, if you are really truly interested in accidents, risk, and most important, what can be done to prevent them (rather than some gory photos for kicks), get your information from a professional source, not the local Daily Blat or the TV news.

[rixflix]

are most of you guys from the nra?


it's the media?
back to the the initiator of this topics
a lot of accidents
there are
ask guys retiring as soon as possible because of safety concerns

[dekemd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

QUOTE: Originally posted by mvlandsw

After reading all the inaccurate reporting on railroading, about which I have some knowledge, I really wonder whether to believe anything reported about any other subject.

You are so right![:D] Don't. I also (besides railroading) am presently an engineer involved with hazmat cleanups, and I used to fly (like, professionaly). I have yet to read a news article in the popular press which can manage to get the facts even remotely straight on any of the three[:(].

I have a cousin who's in Iraq just now (not on vacation), and the tales he tells of is stay there are completely different from what you see on the news; he says it's pretty dull most of the time and yeah, guys do get hurt but no more often than they did back home. Strike two for the media[xx(].

Right off hand I can't name strike three, but I'll betcha there is one[:D].

Moral of the story? Forget the popular press -- TV news, newspapers, the whole shtick. Read the professional journals if you're interested.

I can name strike three for you. A couple of years ago a guy went nuts, took a gun to a law school in Virginia (or Maryland, or maybe even West Virginia, can't remember exactly) and started shooting. He killed two people before being stopped by two students. All the media, and networks were all over the story. "Man uses gun in rampage", "more gun violence at school", etc. This was followed by the usual stories on the need for more gun control. Out of all the newspapers, local, and national networks that covered, the story, only one small newspaper mentioned that the two students who stopped the guy, had guns of their own. They retreived guns from their cars and took the guy down at gunpoint and held him until the police got there.

The media is very biased. These claims of fair and balanced coverage are bogus. I could give many examples of obvious bias in news stories. CNN got caught faking a story. I'll tell about that one if anyone's interested.

Derrick

[rixflix]

I would guess not too many non-railroad people ever witness a derailment, but I did back in the 60's. I was working as a surveyor and we were doing a utility line along the
Reading's Lebanon Valley line at Wyomissing Junction west of Reading. A classic Reading train (still new-ish Gp30's, WM hoppers full of West Virginia bituminous and
northeast / american flyer caboose) was rolling by. About 25 cars from the end we watched a hotbox go smoking past us and then it burst into flames. I flipped the theodolite around and followed the hotbox through the scope. When the caboose passed us we yelled "hotbox!!!" to the conductor and brakeman who were already leaning out from the porch. "Yeah, we're watching it." they said. I went back to the scope
just in time to watch the whole truck under that hopper just disintegrate and the car
go off at a crazy angle down the embankment. 2 or 3 cars followed. I suspect it was the visual compression, but the whole thing seemed to happen in slow motion. Luckily this
happened only a few hundred feet from the Old Bernville Road underpass.
Incidentally, we sometmes did work for Gilbert Associates, a large engineering firm in
Reading, and they told us that one of their rodmen had been killed the year before on the Pennsy's Port Road along the Susquehanna. Train 1 had passed and because of
it's noise the guy didn't expect
and didn't LOOK to see train 2 coming on the second track when he attempted to cross.
STOP LOOK LISTEN LIVE
bye now
Blessed be Jean Shepard in all His works
Captain Video aka Rixflix

[tree68]

Can't speak for the railroads, but I know several fire departments have held "mini-academy" media days so the reporters can "live" the fire service for the day. Haven't seen whether it's made any difference in reporting, though...

[jchnhtfd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mvlandsw

After reading all the inaccurate reporting on railroading, about which I have some knowledge, I really wonder whether to believe anything reported about any other subject.

You are so right![:D] Don't. I also (besides railroading) am presently an engineer involved with hazmat cleanups, and I used to fly (like, professionaly). I have yet to read a news article in the popular press which can manage to get the facts even remotely straight on any of the three[:(].

I have a cousin who's in Iraq just now (not on vacation), and the tales he tells of is stay there are completely different from what you see on the news; he says it's pretty dull most of the time and yeah, guys do get hurt but no more often than they did back home. Strike two for the media[xx(].

Right off hand I can't name strike three, but I'll betcha there is one[:D].

Moral of the story? Forget the popular press -- TV news, newspapers, the whole shtick. Read the professional journals if you're interested.

[mvlandsw]

After reading all the inaccurate reporting on railroading, about which I have some knowledge, I really wonder whether to believe anything reported about any other subject.

[Anonymous]

A couple years ago, up here on the BNSF Hinckley Sub in Minnesota a
snowmobiler cut in front of a train and got killed. I believe it was the father
of the kid who got killed who "made it across" but the son didn't. Trains
on that line average 25 MPH (I know because I listen to that channel a
lot and the talking hot box detector says so).

A reporter from one of the local TV stations in the Twin Cities was "all
over the story". He made the statement during his live, on-the-scene
broadcast that trains were passing by while he was there that night
every 10 minutes, that six southbound trains had already passed his
location, trying to impress the audience that the line was extremely
busy and dangerous.

He failed to understand, or just ignored the fact that trains had been
held in Superior and points north of Bethel (I think that's where the
tragedy occurred if I remember right) while the scene was secured
and all the statements were taken, paperwork started, the crew was
interviewed and a replacement crew sent-out, the carnage cleared
away, etc., etc. The reporting was slanted against the BNSF; it was
obvious. He failed to mention that there had to have been a severe
degree of brain disfunction for a parent to cut in front of a moving
train so close that his son who was "right behind him" couldn't
make it. This when a six-axle locomotive with all lights functional
was there and they attempted this while not being at a grade-
crossing. They didn't say that nor anything about the crew who are
living with that memory right now.

[ironhorseman]

You're all correct. It's the law of avarages. Accident's avarage out to about the same everywhere it's just the number of reports influence your perception of what's going on. In criminal justice we learned crime rates (of all types of crimes) are basically steady it's just the amount of crime that actually does get reported to the police. Then the news media decides what types of crime they'll report and how much emphasis to put on it.

[tree68]

We have the same problem in the fire service - young reporter who can identify a fire truck three out of four times trying to get the story straight on a multiple alarm fire with all sorts of difficult situations. "House burns."

[Anonymous]

Great posts re: railroad accidents.Many of us can recall a time when reporters where really up on their subjects.Nowadays,any reference to a rail accident is compounded in most cases by an almost total lack of knowledge of the railroad industry on the part of the reporter. As a law enforcement officer,I have investigated my share of grade crossing accidents. Have yet to find the train crew at fault. Rather hard to do when the only evasive action possible is going into emergency and praying.

[JoeKoh]

A hopper derailed in hamler Ohio.no news coverage. Didnt see it till I drove by it going to Deshler.
stay safe
joe

[espeefoamer]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Dave's right on -- the news media only cover what 'sells', and the news wire editors can really only carry what the other media carry. If you have some neat pictures, or a twist to the story, off you go -- network TV. The news wire folks try to carry stuff which will be interesting or of benefit in some way to a rather odd audience -- us. But accidents are, on the whole, down.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the media carried reports on the same proportion of automobile and truck accidents as they do railroad and aircraft accidents, wouldn't it?

Advertizers call it selling the sizzle instead of the steak.

[dehusman]

I once read an article on "bus plunge"s. Somebody did a search on the newswires worldwide and came up with hundreds of "bus plunge" s where a loaded bus plunged off a cliff or a bridge.

Dave H.

[normneuberger]

Thanks All for responding and enlighting me.

Norm

[jchnhtfd]

Dave's right on -- the news media only cover what 'sells', and the news wire editors can really only carry what the other media carry. If you have some neat pictures, or a twist to the story, off you go -- network TV. The news wire folks try to carry stuff which will be interesting or of benefit in some way to a rather odd audience -- us. But accidents are, on the whole, down.

It would be interesting to see what would happen if the media carried reports on the same proportion of automobile and truck accidents as they do railroad and aircraft accidents, wouldn't it?

[Anonymous]

Very similar to war reporting from Iraq. Terrorists detonate a roadside bomb
and ABC screams "quagmire" and makes it sound like we've just lost the
war. Yet, our troops capture 10 terrorists or rebuild and reopen a dozen
schools with new desks, clean water, fresh paint on the walls and school
supplies of all types and the agenda-driven editors don't utter a peep about
it.

[dehusman]

Actually the number of s has decreased over the years. Remember that the newswire carries what the editors think is news and is not in any proportion to what is either important or how frequent the occurance.

Back during the UP-SP merger a grain train derailed on an industrial lead and it made the national news for 3 days straight. In the meantime the BNSF had a rear end collision on the main track that involved injuries to the crew. Not a peep on the news.
There was lots of national coverage on the runaway cars on the UP in California but virtually no national coverage on the BNSF train that derailed and blew up a tank, burning down a house in Iowa.

Don't confuse what's "news' and what's 'important".

Dave H.

[normneuberger]

I read the News Wire everyday and I am amazed at the number of accidents and derailments. Is this above normal or what? What is causing these derailments, poor rolling stock mtce. or poor track mtce.or both?

Norm