inch53 wrote: There's a lot of grain trains here in the Midwest, not just for corn, but also soybeans, wheat and such. CSX uses their own cars most the time,But they will use others if their need.Trains will run 60-70 cars normally through here, but I seen one about 120+ [lost count].
There's a lot of grain trains here in the Midwest, not just for corn, but also soybeans, wheat and such. CSX uses their own cars most the time,
But they will use others if their need.
Trains will run 60-70 cars normally through here, but I seen one about 120+ [lost count].
Just what is the pecentage of corn produced in the U.S. as to wheat, etc. ??? I would think the U.S. produces a LOT of corn, way down south in Canada on the prairies we produce a LOT of wheat.
Union Pacific regularly operates 105-car unit trains ("shuttles") of corn from points in Iowa to Maricopa and Wellton, Arizona. Originally, they just served feed lots at these locations. More recently, the Maricopa unloading and storage facility also serves a large, nearby egg ranch and Arizona's first ethanol plant.
John Timm
Murphy Siding wrote: Right now, where I live, south eastern South Dakota, BNSF runs unit corn trains through town on just about every day that ends in "y".
Going East or West? We get at least one unit grain train a day, often 2 or 3, west bound through Montana on the MRL, often meeting a returning set of empties along the way...
Difficult to get close enough to try and determine what type of grain, though. By the time they get here, any spillage has usually fallen off... either a testament to effecient loading or track conditions 'tween here and there....
Mike WSOR engineer | HO scale since 1988 | Visit our club www.WCGandyDancers.com
In the begining railroad grain movement or the demand for the movement peaked with the harvest.
Consider these conditions. Farmers had little on farm storage. Transportation from the farm was primitive, first horse and wagon, later motorized but very small capacity vehicles. Looking at railroad maps from the late 1800's up to the mid 20th Century one can see that rail lines were like spider webs laid over the grain producing lands of the US. The relative inefficiency of transportation from farm to the rail head lead to a proliferation of elavators all along the rail lines. The storage at these elevators may have initially been of sufficient capacity to hold close to a year's production, but the name of the game was to sell and ship the grain to consumers as quickly as possible to get the cash proceeds back in the hands of the local grain merchants and further back to the farmers. The natural result was that the massive storage facilities capable of holding a years supply of grain were located at processing or consumption points.
Keep in mind that up to the mid 20th Century, the standard railroad vehicle for hauling grain was the 40ft boxcar with a 40 ton capacity.
Over time a number of evolutionary changes occured.
Rural roads and highway were improved to facilitate movement of products from the farm to markets and rail heads.
Trucks for transporting grain from field to market grew from a capacity of a few tons to now about 25 tons.
Realizing the potential for cost efficiencies, the railroads developed jumbo hoppers capable of hauling 100 tons per car.
Although the Southern Railway had to take the case to the US Supreme Court, the railroads were able to overcome regulatory restrictions and establish and offer reduced rates to those shippers who would ship grain in even more cost efficient multiple car lots.
At about the same time, experience with providing train load service (unit trains) for the movement of coal proved that a similar service for the grain trade had the potential for further efficiencies and could provide grain merchants sufficient savings in transportation cost to justify building the large scale storage and loading facilities to support unit train operation.
This strategy effectivly back up the primary storage of the harvest from the consumption point to the producing areas. The development metal bins suitable for massive storage aided this shift. This removed the major factors that had caused the peaking of rail shipments during the harvest time. The end result is that unit train shipments will move the year around and rather than sitting idle after the harvest, the grain cars earn their keep through out the year.
In much the same way that big box stores have put small merchants out of business, these changes caused considerable disruptions to the old systems of grain storage and merchandising and to this day there is still controversy over the changes. The changes resulted in the closing of large numbers of small local grain elevators. As these facilities were often the only rail businesses on branches and secondary rail lines this also was a major contributing factor to the abandonment of rail lines in the grain belt. While arguments might be advanced that the changes had significant negative impacts on local economies and social well being, it would be hard to make the point that the current methods for moving grain from farm to market are not a vast improvement from the past.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics
CSSHEGEWISCH wrote:Unit grain trains have been around for quite a while. They're a lot less visible since they don't operate year round and they don't necessarily have a matched set of cars for a consist.
Paul, those unit trains do operate year round... In recent years, Some local elevators have had to "PATIENTLY" wait up to eight months for a "scheduled" unit train to arrive.... grain then ends up being piled on the ground, as there is not enough storage room....
I live four miles from the Erskine( Mn.) Grain Terminal... this is the first "loop track" grain terminal loadout setup to be built in the state of Minnesota. At this terminal, three large locomotives will come in with 110 hopper cars and remain coupled to the cars; and leave with the loaded cars...This is a very efficient "smaller" operation, and the train is loaded in about 8 1/2 hours..
We are only 220 miles from the Duluth-Superior Ports on Lake Superior, but when these ports freeze up for the winter season, the unit trains continue to roll ..If the market demands; the trains can head for a coastal or river port ..
wjstix wrote:Well unit grain trains are quite common, especially this time of year. Not sure about corn though, most "grain" trains are wheat. Corn (Maize) is normally sold on-the-cob so I wouldn't think would be transported that far or in huge quantities...although I know corn syrup and such is used in many food products, I suppose the plants that make that have to get the corn from somewhere, but I would guess it would be trucked in locally. In general "grain train" means wheat, at least here in the Upper Midwest.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Paul Milenkovic wrote: One alternative would be the domestic container. You could have container unit trains operating on routes and schedules much like passenger trains, and you could have trucks bring these containers to team tracks for transfer to the train -- John had been a big proponent of side-transfer gear for this, something that has never caught on except in the garbage business where the Dumpster rules.
One alternative would be the domestic container. You could have container unit trains operating on routes and schedules much like passenger trains, and you could have trucks bring these containers to team tracks for transfer to the train -- John had been a big proponent of side-transfer gear for this, something that has never caught on except in the garbage business where the Dumpster rules.
Well, it doesn't use a side transfer system - but here's some containerized grain and grain products.
http://www.northstarintermodal.com/index.php
Looks to me like those tri axle chassis are going to stay on the rails into Canada. This is a very good use of the RailRunner technology - reducing truck drayage costs and acting as a "feeder" into the existing intermodal system. I hope it works out.
Most of Galva goes to Laredo I think. Plus on the Chilli side we have Ransom and Ruff brothers grain loading. We get trains from the CN going to Centralia and Peoria,and from Iowa Interstate to Summerfield Texas.
Grain is a big money maker for BNSF, dont let them fool you like they fool themselves. You know Intermodal pays all our bills.Grain and coal are the true moneymakers out here.
Yes we are on time but this is yesterdays train
want to see unit grain trains?? come to hamler and custar ohio.just 2 of the big elevators that the railroads switch here in nw ohio.
stay safe
joe
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
John K. was controversial in his day but the major railroads were listening.
I always enjoyed reading his columns and articles in Trains.His articles always drew many letters to the editor,usualy anti.But time has proven him to have better insight into the railroad business than most.
WSOR 4025 wrote: jeaton wrote: I am not sure that any grain shipper on the WSOR can ship trainload quantities. I suspect the WSOR is gathering cars of grain at various points off the their system, then making up solid trains of grain for the haul using CP trackage rights to Chicago.There is a grain elevator in Rock Springs on the Reedsburg sub that loads unit grain trains from time to time.
jeaton wrote: I am not sure that any grain shipper on the WSOR can ship trainload quantities. I suspect the WSOR is gathering cars of grain at various points off the their system, then making up solid trains of grain for the haul using CP trackage rights to Chicago.
I am not sure that any grain shipper on the WSOR can ship trainload quantities. I suspect the WSOR is gathering cars of grain at various points off the their system, then making up solid trains of grain for the haul using CP trackage rights to Chicago.
There is a grain elevator in Rock Springs on the Reedsburg sub that loads unit grain trains from time to time.
OK. So there is at least one and there certainly could be more. Grain elevators in Darien (my neighborhood) ship large quantities of grain and I often see cuts of maybe 15-20 hopper cars on the siding where the branch to Darien connects with the Janesville-Fox Lake line. However, I couldn't say where these cars are going or how they are routed. With the ethanol plant in Milton now on line, it's possible some of this corn is headed to Milton.
jeaton wrote:I am not sure that any grain shipper on the WSOR can ship trainload quantities. I suspect the WSOR is gathering cars of grain at various points off the their system, then making up solid trains of grain for the haul using CP trackage rights to Chicago.
This probably hasn't caught on, but the one note that John Kneiling was banging out on the piano was the loose car vs captive train mode of pick up and delivery to the customer.
If you have a trainload customer at each end - a mega elevator sending a trainload of grain to a major port for export, the railroad industry along with their customer have caught on to the idea of a unit train in captive service. For the smaller elevators and grain mill customers, the assumption is that you go with individual carloads and switching and spotting at sidings and all of the car per diem stuff, or you go with trucking.
One alternative would be the domestic container. You could have container unit trains operating on routes and schedules much like passenger trains, and you could have trucks bring these containers to team tracks for transfer to the train -- John had been a big proponent of side-transfer gear for this, something that has never caught on except in the garbage business where the Dumpster rules. Maybe this is an unappetizing analogy, but instead of setting out hopper cars, you could have a grain Dumpster, and the grain Dumpsters could be distributed locally by truck, or the train could do direct setouts and pickups of grain Dumpsters at the elevator and grain mill sidings.
Another alternative is that instead of set outs and pick ups of individual hopper cars or use of intermodal containers, you would have a captive train of hopper cars, and that carload transfers of grain would take place at each siding by either loading or unloading a carload quantity right then and there. Who is to say a hopper has to be used as a rolling warehouse when by its very design a hopper has a very quick load and unload capability.
John was against two things: 1) switched set outs and pick ups of individual train cars as a means of freight distribution and 2) using rolling stock -- train cars -- as the basic "container" element if the shipping device was to be used for storage, warehousing, or inventory flow. Both of these practices lead to low utilization, lading damage in the case of non-bulk cargo (not an issue with grain), and lead to a "lowest common denominator" in terms of braking, slack action, or speed capability of the freight car fleet in non-captive interchange service. He was of the mind that it was better to have a captive consist, even for local distribution, and to employ container side transfer for general cargo, or the fast load and discharge capability of hopper cars for bulk cargo, and to have that train make multiple stops for carload cargo transfers rather than breaking up the train by switching.
The passenger business has gone to the far extreme of avoiding any kind of switching or breaking up of consists -- push pull, fixed consist, and hub and spokes means the passengers change trains -- there is almost no switching of head end cars or switching of strings of passenger cars for through service these days.
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
The classic definition of a unit train is x number of cars (whatever number constituted a full train) moving on one shipping order from one shipper to one destination. Technically, the number of cars is not material. While "unit trains" are generally considered to be the trains that run from say at least 50 cars, the important factor is that all the cars in a single consignment run as an intact consist directly from a shipper to a single consignee without adding or deleting cars enroute. With that definition, a short train, say a 25 car train of crushed stone running from a quarry to a concrete mixing facility is a unit train.
Having said that, the first unit train for grain was probably the Illinois Cental's Grain "Rent-a-Train" running with 87 cars of corn from east central Illinois to Baton Rouge, LA, for export. The first of those trains ran in 1967 or '68.
At that time only a very small number of grain elevators had storage, tracks and loading capacity to efficiently ship trainloads. Today there may be as many as 100 or more elevators that can load trainloads in a day or less and have the entire train set up for pick-up by the railroad.
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/4309
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