I'm looking for examples of "gauntlet" track, perhaps across a narow bridge where two lines had to merge to use the existing bridge. Such a place will soon exist on my Pacific Cascade Railway in HO gauge. An NP line that almost ran from Yakima to Chehalis, Washington.
At one point Starrucca Viaduct on the Erie was gantleted -- possibly when the first of the true high-speed Super-Power Berks were introduced. Turns out the arrangement was removed later as -- decidedly contrary to the appearance from 'down below'! -- the stone construction happily handled the increased Cooper loading. The recently-replaced 'temporary' viaduct in upstate New York was iirc gantleted for modern diesels and stack traffic, I think with speed restrictions.
For many years the Poughkeepsie Bridge was gantleted with a hard speed restriction. Here is one account of that story:
https://books.google.com/books?id=nEU_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA473&lpg=PA473&dq=new+york+erie+viaduct+gantlet&source=bl&ots=tD6UMG8h-4&sig=ACfU3U3hkM4Nmf8mfqCQ_L6sgfiXAT73Bw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN8_7p37vqAhUCT98KHT3_ASwQ6AEwEXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=new%20york%20erie%20viaduct%20gantlet&f=false
In Polaritz's book on the P&LE A-2-A Berks he mentions, and pictures, gantlet arrangements on that road.
Here is a recently built example, on the ION light rail system in Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario. They share track with freight trains, which need extra clearance to pass station platforms. This section opened for service in 2019.
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At one time the Santa Fe southern 'Transcon' main line bridge over the Missouri River at Sibley (MP 440) was gauntley for its two main tracks. That was discontinued with TCS signalling. Now BNSF is wishing to build a new double track bridge there.
While we're on the subject of modeling a gantlet operation, here is a 1938 account of how one was worked in Bessemer & Lake Erie:
https://books.google.com/books?id=2ILmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA141&lpg=PA141&dq=new+york+erie+ciaduct+gantlet&source=bl&ots=_z1h1dnZ4f&sig=ACfU3U3oIk-QETBkH3tohWBRmPC2NpzW3A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj525LN3rvqAhUGZd8KHa13CTgQ6AEwAHoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=new%20york%20erie%20ciaduct%20gantlet&f=false
For many years the B&O used a gauntlet track through the Howard Street Tunnel for their freight traffic. In effect, there were three track routes through the tunnel. East and Westbound passenger tracks along the sides of the tunnel and the gauntlet track for freight down the center line of the tunnel to take advantage of the peak of the arch of the tunnel in being able to handle freight cars that were higher than passenger cars.
When passenger service from DC to New York was eliminated in 1958, the tunnel was single tracked with the track on the centerline of the tunnel being the only one to remain. When I worked in Baltimore in the early 70's 17'3" autoracks were allowed the track speed of 25 MPH; 17'5" racks were restricted to 10 MPH. When I retired, the tunnel had been undercut and notched to be able to handle 19'2" with both autoracks and double stacks. Still waiting for the work to begin to allow 20' 2" racks and stacks.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
There's one in Roselle Park NJ, on the NJ Transit Raritan Valley Line.
Here's some shots of the station with the gantlet track.
http://www.subwaynut.com/njt/raritan_valley_line/roselle_park/index.php
A 28 second video featuring the gantlet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VHb1t9p0d8
And a video of the gantlet in action. (Not very good, but better than nothing!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oY6OkEh-xvY
The NJ Transit station in Union has a gantlet track as well. Here's a vid, a little better than the last one. Gantlet's on the left.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xLgPv9TNJ64
Most of the Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit ("SMART") stations have gantlet tracks. Here are a couple of Google street view links for Downtown Petaluma and Cotati.
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The Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (South Shore to nearly everyone here) has gauntlet tracks at the Hammond station in Indiana, and probably others, so the passenger trains can get right up to the platforms and the freights can clear them adequately by using the other route. There used to be a number of gauntlet bridges in the area east of Chicago. The South Shore had one in Gary that was the site of a serious collision between two of its passenger trains. B&OCT had one in Burnham, crossing the Grand Calumet River. Both of those (and another South Shore bridge, IIRC) have been two-tracked now. C&NW's bridge over the Cedar River in Iowa was gauntleted for a while, later made into a single-track bridge, then widened again to two tracks by the UP.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s.
This excellent site with numerous fascinating, historic photos has images of Santa Fe's Canyon Diablo bridge when it was a single track, gauntleted affair.
http://www.carrtracks.com/aztc311.htm
Let me light that up for you.
There you go!
Amtrak's B&P tunnel in Baltimore and station platform in New Carrolton MD are (were?) gauntlet.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Flintlock76 Let me light that up for you. http://www.carrtracks.com/aztc311.htm There you go!
Hah! Nice trick. Thanks...
MikeF90 Most of the Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit ("SMART") stations have gantlet tracks. Here are a couple of Google street view links for Downtown Petaluma and Cotati.
This poster seems to remember a quantlet set up where a double track line crossed a bridge with just 3 used tracks with the middle track being standard guage to the two outside tracks. Anyone know ? It may have been on the south shore ?
Carl is right, South Shore also has a gantlet at Hegewisch for freight trains. I believe that the North Shore Line had similar arrangements south of Dempster Street on the Skokie Valley Route where the Rapid Transit Company provided local service.
[quote user="CShaveRR"]
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Working in Chicago (in the 1980's,); I remember an accident, possibly, one that Carl (CShaveRR) mentioned in Gary, In. IIRC the accident was with a South Shore passenger train, and as a result of thecollision; some pretty good sized rolls of steel got 'bowled' into the adjacent neighborhood.
Just did a Search for ' South Shore rr accidents in Gary,In' It is an interesting study for over the years that particular issue of 'narrow' [Gauntlet(?)] track at Gary, In. Station has apparently been the scene of a number of crashes.
Involving South Shore Passenger equiment and 'other' railroads that might be passing through... Here is a linked site that provides a lot of info in South Shore equipment that has been involved in accidents :
Railroad.net @ https://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?t=64774
Seems that there is a significant number of fans that keep up with those incidents and their tole on the South Shore's equipment.
samfp1943 Working in Chicago (in the 1980's,); I remember an accident, possibly, one that Carl (CShaveRR) mentioned in Gary, In. IIRC the accident was with a South Shore passenger train, and as a result of thecollision; some pretty good sized rolls of steel got 'bowled' into the adjacent neighborhood. Just did a Search for ' South Shore rr accidents in Gary,In' It is an interesting study for over the years that particular issue of 'narrow' [Gauntlet(?)] track at Gary, In. Station has apparently been the scene of a number of crashes. Involving South Shore Passenger equiment and 'other' railroads that might be passing through... Here is a linked site that provides a lot of info in South Shore equipment that has been involved in accidents : Railroad.net @ https://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?t=64774 Seems that there is a significant number of fans that keep up with those incidents and their tole on the South Shore's equipment.
I guess a gantlet, derived from a Swedish word for lane, is a kind of military hazing/punishment where a soldier has to pass between two rows of other soldiers who would strike the unfortunate person. A gantlet track is analogous to this situation because of the pummeling a train in the quoted text if it tried to pass when another train was on the parallel track lacking proper clearance for two trains side-by-side.
A gauntlet is French word for the glove in a suit of armor, and a knight would "throw down the gauntlet" in issuing a challenge to combat, similar, I guess, to dropping a glove as a challenge to a fencing dual. I guess there is a similar removal of gloves at the start of a brawl between members of opposing hockey teams?
I say gantlet, you say gauntlet, I guess either usage is OK for the closely parallel tracks or for the hazing punishment.
This reminds me of the phrase "pass muster", which sort of means, "pass your military draft physical" and "cut the mustard", which also means living up to a standard, but the meaning of which is obscure.
My Mom once in the context, it may have been my brother meeting the parents of a young woman he was dating, used the phrase "pass the mustard", which prompted Sis to joke at Mom's expense, "pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?", which dates the episode to the early 1980s/
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
Paul MilenkovicI say gantlet, you say gauntlet, I guess either usage is OK for the closely parallel tracks or for the hazing punishment.
Wikipedia splits down the middle and uses the two more or less interchangeably.
Doing a search for either brings you back to the other...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
mudchickenAt some point, you ought to investigate why they redesigned the platforms twice,
Uh no, I gave up trying to follow their antics during construction. Part of serving Marin county means that they are bat s*** crazy even by SFBA standards. They were aggressive hostile to off hour freight service and now, go figure, they are planning to buy the operator.
What SMART does for the San Rafael ferry connection will probably redefine the use of the word 'cluster'. The fine county citizens already spent ~10M$ or so on their bike crossing of SFD Blvd.
A question from someone with absolutely no railroad knowledge.
On the Canyon Diable bridge, why did they lay the track that way instead of just switching to one track crossing the bridge? Was it to avoid having to set the switches?
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
A not very informed guess was that avoiding switches was -um- the point. Someone would have to get off the train to throw the switch before and unthrow after the train passed. With a gantlet, the train would just need to slow down a bit and save a fair amount of time.
One downside of a gantlet is dealing with the frogs.
Thanks, Erik.
Erik_MagOne downside of a gantlet is dealing with the frogs.
Still better than frogs and points...
54light15 The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s.
I don't understand.
You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time on the bridge in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet?
Is the idea to get the weight more centered on the bridge?
blue streak 1 This poster seems to remember a quantlet set up where a double track line crossed a bridge with just 3 used tracks with the middle track being standard guage to the two outside tracks. Anyone know ? It may have been on the south shore ?
You mean three RAILS, right?
Man, I'd love to see a photo of that. That's wild. Lionel!
Until this thread came along, I was not aware of any type of gauntlet trackage, never heard the term even. This is really fascinating.
Lithonia Operator 54light15 The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s. I don't understand. You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet? Is the idea to get the weight more centered on the bridge?
You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet?
Signalling is one thing - power switches are needed if it were to be a true single track on the bridge. Power Switches are expensive.
Theory was that the bridge could handle the weight of two 'light' trains when built so in theory it had the structural ability of handling on 'heavy' train. I am not a engineer so I don't know how close they were getting to the maximum capacity of the structure.
BaltACD I am not a engineer so I don't know how close they were getting to the maximum capacity of the structure.
Here is the not-too-succinct-but-effective link again:
(Oddly enough no more direct combination of search terms on the Poughkeepsie Bridge put into Google listed this link!)
The chief point of the gantlet is that it requires no switching: it is two main lines that overlap, with (as noted) only frogs and not points to be negotiated. To a limited extent the 'extra rail' in the gauge of a given gantlet track can function as a guardrail -- the absence of points close to the bridge reducing some of the need for full guardrails on bidirectional single track.
Lithonia OperatorYou mean three RAILS, right?
The design would also necessarily include carefully ground or relieved points -- they would never need to move, of course, but they would need to be provided and reinforced. This may be more money and work than the 'frog' alternative...
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