CSSHEGEWISCH That is true in most situations. However, gantlets around high-level passenger platforms, such as on South Shore, do require a switch at each end.
That is true in most situations. However, gantlets around high-level passenger platforms, such as on South Shore, do require a switch at each end.
Very true. IMHO, such a track would be better described as a "bypass track." The same thing is/was done at track scales, so cars that don't need to be weighed aren't.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Here's a simple image of a gantlet track. Note the lack of moving parts.
Maintaining switches is always more expensive than not have switches - be they Powered, Spring or hand throw. Something that moves requires maintenance to keep it moving.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD Lithonia Operator 54light15 The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s. I don't understand. You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet? Is the idea to get the weight more centered on the bridge? Signalling is one thing - power switches are needed if it were to be a true single track on the bridge. Power Switches are expensive. Theory was that the bridge could handle the weight of two 'light' trains when built so in theory it had the structural ability of handling on 'heavy' train. I am not a engineer so I don't know how close they were getting to the maximum capacity of the structure.
Lithonia Operator 54light15 The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s. I don't understand. You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet? Is the idea to get the weight more centered on the bridge?
54light15 The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s.
The New Haven's Poughkeepsie Bridge had its double track made into gantlet since trains got a lot heavier since the bridge was built in the 1880s.
I don't understand.
You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet?
Is the idea to get the weight more centered on the bridge?
Signalling is one thing - power switches are needed if it were to be a true single track on the bridge. Power Switches are expensive.
Theory was that the bridge could handle the weight of two 'light' trains when built so in theory it had the structural ability of handling on 'heavy' train. I am not a engineer so I don't know how close they were getting to the maximum capacity of the structure.
You wouldn't necessarily need power switches if the tracks were operated current of traffic style. Two spring switches would do. However, power switches would be more flexible when the dispatcher wanted to run something 'wrong main'.
The C&NW gantlet at the Cedar River ended in the late 1970s after a derailment on the bridge. I don't believe the gantlet section had anything to do with the derailment. It was shortly after when they just single tracked the section and placed spring switches at either end. Both ends were combined into a single automatic interlocking. Eventually, the C&NW placed a quasi-CTC system in place between the Cedar River bridge and Fairfax, about 10 or 12 miles. (To the casual observer, it looked like normal CTC operation.) With that the spring switches were replaced by power switches. Another upgrade, I don't remember if it was late CNW or early UP, made it true CTC.
The I don't think the bridge was the reason for the gantlet section. Originally, the main line went through downtown Cedar Rapids. The C&NW built a cutoff (Linn County Railway) between Otis and Beverly so freight traffic could bypass the downtown area. At the west end of the Cedar River the Rock Island (originally BCR&N) went through on a north/south track on a large fill. The C&NW had to build through this fill, building a bridge for the RI. The cutoff was originally single tracked, so the cut through the fill and bridge only had to span a single track. At some point the C&NW double tracked the cutoff. For whatever reason, they used the gantlet under the RI and over the bridge. Years after the RI was gone and UP had taken charge, they were able install a second track over the bridge. They were able to widen the cut through the fill and build a pedestrian bridge over the tracks, the former RI being a trail in that area.
Jeff
York1Of course, my knowledge of railroading is next to nothing. My experience is what my KATO locomotive does on an N Scale track.
While I think I've seen examples of modelled gantlet tracks over the years, it's not something you see often on model railroads because the conditions that cause them aren't usually a problem on model layouts.
If it's there, it's because the modeller chose to include it.
Not to mention the fact that you'd have to build such an arrangement from scratch.
Lithonia OperatorUntil this thread came along, I was not aware of any type of gauntlet trackage, never heard the term even. This is really fascinating.
I'm in the same boat. I had never seen one of these sets of tracks until now.
Of course, my knowledge of railroading is next to nothing. My experience is what my KATO locomotive does on an N Scale track.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
I remember reading in an old (1953 or so) issue of TRAINS that Poughkeepsie Bridge was strengthened a second time for heavier motive power and the gantlet was installed to center the weight.
Lithonia OperatorYou mean three RAILS, right?
The design would also necessarily include carefully ground or relieved points -- they would never need to move, of course, but they would need to be provided and reinforced. This may be more money and work than the 'frog' alternative...
BaltACD I am not a engineer so I don't know how close they were getting to the maximum capacity of the structure.
Here is the not-too-succinct-but-effective link again:
https://books.google.com/books?id=nEU_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA473&lpg=PA473&dq=new+york+erie+viaduct+gantlet&source=bl&ots=tD6UMG8h-4&sig=ACfU3U3hkM4Nmf8mfqCQ_L6sgfiXAT73Bw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN8_7p37vqAhUCT98KHT3_ASwQ6AEwEXoECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=new%20york%20erie%20viaduct%20gantlet&f=false
(Oddly enough no more direct combination of search terms on the Poughkeepsie Bridge put into Google listed this link!)
The chief point of the gantlet is that it requires no switching: it is two main lines that overlap, with (as noted) only frogs and not points to be negotiated. To a limited extent the 'extra rail' in the gauge of a given gantlet track can function as a guardrail -- the absence of points close to the bridge reducing some of the need for full guardrails on bidirectional single track.
blue streak 1 This poster seems to remember a quantlet set up where a double track line crossed a bridge with just 3 used tracks with the middle track being standard guage to the two outside tracks. Anyone know ? It may have been on the south shore ?
This poster seems to remember a quantlet set up where a double track line crossed a bridge with just 3 used tracks with the middle track being standard guage to the two outside tracks. Anyone know ? It may have been on the south shore ?
You mean three RAILS, right?
Man, I'd love to see a photo of that. That's wild. Lionel!
Until this thread came along, I was not aware of any type of gauntlet trackage, never heard the term even. This is really fascinating.
You're going to have to use signaling to make sure there's only one train at a time on the bridge in any event. So why do you need the gauntlet?
Erik_MagOne downside of a gantlet is dealing with the frogs.
Still better than frogs and points...
Thanks, Erik.
A not very informed guess was that avoiding switches was -um- the point. Someone would have to get off the train to throw the switch before and unthrow after the train passed. With a gantlet, the train would just need to slow down a bit and save a fair amount of time.
One downside of a gantlet is dealing with the frogs.
A question from someone with absolutely no railroad knowledge.
On the Canyon Diable bridge, why did they lay the track that way instead of just switching to one track crossing the bridge? Was it to avoid having to set the switches?
mudchickenAt some point, you ought to investigate why they redesigned the platforms twice,
Uh no, I gave up trying to follow their antics during construction. Part of serving Marin county means that they are bat s*** crazy even by SFBA standards. They were aggressive hostile to off hour freight service and now, go figure, they are planning to buy the operator.
What SMART does for the San Rafael ferry connection will probably redefine the use of the word 'cluster'. The fine county citizens already spent ~10M$ or so on their bike crossing of SFD Blvd.
Links to my Google Maps ---> Sunset Route overview, SoCal metro, Yuma sub, Gila sub, SR east of Tucson, BNSF Northern Transcon and Southern Transcon *** Why you should support Ukraine! ***
Paul MilenkovicI say gantlet, you say gauntlet, I guess either usage is OK for the closely parallel tracks or for the hazing punishment.
Wikipedia splits down the middle and uses the two more or less interchangeably.
Doing a search for either brings you back to the other...
samfp1943 Working in Chicago (in the 1980's,); I remember an accident, possibly, one that Carl (CShaveRR) mentioned in Gary, In. IIRC the accident was with a South Shore passenger train, and as a result of thecollision; some pretty good sized rolls of steel got 'bowled' into the adjacent neighborhood. Just did a Search for ' South Shore rr accidents in Gary,In' It is an interesting study for over the years that particular issue of 'narrow' [Gauntlet(?)] track at Gary, In. Station has apparently been the scene of a number of crashes. Involving South Shore Passenger equiment and 'other' railroads that might be passing through... Here is a linked site that provides a lot of info in South Shore equipment that has been involved in accidents : Railroad.net @ https://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?t=64774 Seems that there is a significant number of fans that keep up with those incidents and their tole on the South Shore's equipment.
Working in Chicago (in the 1980's,); I remember an accident, possibly, one that Carl (CShaveRR) mentioned in Gary, In. IIRC the accident was with a South Shore passenger train, and as a result of thecollision; some pretty good sized rolls of steel got 'bowled' into the adjacent neighborhood.
Just did a Search for ' South Shore rr accidents in Gary,In' It is an interesting study for over the years that particular issue of 'narrow' [Gauntlet(?)] track at Gary, In. Station has apparently been the scene of a number of crashes.
Involving South Shore Passenger equiment and 'other' railroads that might be passing through... Here is a linked site that provides a lot of info in South Shore equipment that has been involved in accidents :
Railroad.net @ https://railroad.net/viewtopic.php?t=64774
Seems that there is a significant number of fans that keep up with those incidents and their tole on the South Shore's equipment.
I guess a gantlet, derived from a Swedish word for lane, is a kind of military hazing/punishment where a soldier has to pass between two rows of other soldiers who would strike the unfortunate person. A gantlet track is analogous to this situation because of the pummeling a train in the quoted text if it tried to pass when another train was on the parallel track lacking proper clearance for two trains side-by-side.
A gauntlet is French word for the glove in a suit of armor, and a knight would "throw down the gauntlet" in issuing a challenge to combat, similar, I guess, to dropping a glove as a challenge to a fencing dual. I guess there is a similar removal of gloves at the start of a brawl between members of opposing hockey teams?
I say gantlet, you say gauntlet, I guess either usage is OK for the closely parallel tracks or for the hazing punishment.
This reminds me of the phrase "pass muster", which sort of means, "pass your military draft physical" and "cut the mustard", which also means living up to a standard, but the meaning of which is obscure.
My Mom once in the context, it may have been my brother meeting the parents of a young woman he was dating, used the phrase "pass the mustard", which prompted Sis to joke at Mom's expense, "pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?", which dates the episode to the early 1980s/
If GM "killed the electric car", what am I doing standing next to an EV-1, a half a block from the WSOR tracks?
[quote user="CShaveRR"]
The Northern Indiana Commuter Transportation District (South Shore to nearly everyone here) has gauntlet tracks at the Hammond station in Indiana, and probably others, so the passenger trains can get right up to the platforms and the freights can clear them adequately by using the other route. There used to be a number of gauntlet bridges in the area east of Chicago. The South Shore had one in Gary that was the site of a serious collision between two of its passenger trains. B&OCT had one in Burnham, crossing the Grand Calumet River. Both of those (and another South Shore bridge, IIRC) have been two-tracked now. C&NW's bridge over the Cedar River in Iowa was gauntleted for a while, later made into a single-track bridge, then widened again to two tracks by the UP.
[/quote]
Carl is right, South Shore also has a gantlet at Hegewisch for freight trains. I believe that the North Shore Line had similar arrangements south of Dempster Street on the Skokie Valley Route where the Rapid Transit Company provided local service.
MikeF90 Most of the Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit ("SMART") stations have gantlet tracks. Here are a couple of Google street view links for Downtown Petaluma and Cotati.
Most of the Sonoma Marin Area Rapid Transit ("SMART") stations have gantlet tracks. Here are a couple of Google street view links for Downtown Petaluma and Cotati.
Flintlock76 Let me light that up for you. http://www.carrtracks.com/aztc311.htm There you go!
Let me light that up for you.
http://www.carrtracks.com/aztc311.htm
There you go!
Hah! Nice trick. Thanks...
Amtrak's B&P tunnel in Baltimore and station platform in New Carrolton MD are (were?) gauntlet.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
This excellent site with numerous fascinating, historic photos has images of Santa Fe's Canyon Diablo bridge when it was a single track, gauntleted affair.
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