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UP dumps 70 cars of sand in Missouri

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UP dumps 70 cars of sand in Missouri
Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, July 26, 2019 8:52 AM

Somebody call Hulcher and say you have a huge mess to clean up.  UP dumped 70 loads of sand all over the place in a derailment in Missouri this morning.  The cars are stacked up like cordwood and the sand they were carrying well is all over the place.  It looks like UP tried to make a beach there.  https://www.kctv5.com/news/local_news/nearly-train-cars-derail-along-tracks-in-mercer-county-missouri/article_63564416-af06-11e9-8e33-8773cb4a96ea.html?fbclid=IwAR1WchJKOwGsaP2MPk6Ia8GZoTRkbLB8VLdGRDs3fJftxD8bmi2-_vcg17o 

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Posted by Overmod on Friday, July 26, 2019 9:39 AM

Sure beats that number of carloads of that fracking alternative, Bakken light crude...

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Posted by Euclid on Friday, July 26, 2019 9:56 AM

Now that is an accordion derailment.

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Posted by caldreamer on Friday, July 26, 2019 10:15 AM

Looks like a pretty remote area with forest on both sides of the tracks.  How are they going to get equipment in to clean up the derailment?

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Posted by Flintlock76 on Friday, July 26, 2019 10:55 AM

Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat. 

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, July 26, 2019 11:40 AM

Flintlock76
Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat. 

Gonna foul the ballast, though...

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Posted by zardoz on Friday, July 26, 2019 1:04 PM

Euclid

Now that is an accordion derailment.

 

Really!

They sure did a nice job of neatly folding those cars.

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Posted by blue streak 1 on Friday, July 26, 2019 1:10 PM

tree68

 

 
Flintlock76
Look on the bright side, it ain't haz-mat. 

 

Gonna foul the ballast, though...

 

Will UP bring an undercutter to clean the ballast?

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, July 26, 2019 1:32 PM

It may not be flammable but is sure is one hell of a lung problem way down the long.  Silica sand causes major health problems down the road that make black lung look like nothing.

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Posted by zugmann on Friday, July 26, 2019 1:36 PM

caldreamer
Looks like a pretty remote area with forest on both sides of the tracks. How are they going to get equipment in to clean up the derailment?

Chainsaws and a checkbook?

It's been fun.  But it isn't much fun anymore.   Signing off for now. 


  

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Posted by tree68 on Friday, July 26, 2019 3:32 PM

blue streak 1
Will UP bring an undercutter to clean the ballast?

 Disclaimer - I am in no way, shape, or form an MOW expert.  I'm on a par with most of the forum members - I know what I've learned here (and a few other places.)

That said - the sand probably isn't going to immediately sift down through the ballast.

If UP thinks it will be a problem in the future, they may employ a vacuum to clean up what the loaders, etc, can't.

Or they may leave it where it is and run an undercutter through later, if there seems to be a problem.

Maybe MC will chime in with a more authoritative answer.

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Posted by NP Eddie on Friday, July 26, 2019 5:10 PM

I was Roadmaster's Clerk for the BN at Northtown and can tell all that that sand will foul the ballast to the point it will not drain properly. What a mess! and a good example of an accordian derailment.

Who was the former owner of that line of the UP?

Ed Burns

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Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, July 26, 2019 5:15 PM

NP Eddie

I was Roadmaster's Clerk for the BN at Northtown and can tell all that that sand will foul the ballast to the point it will not drain properly. What a mess! and a good example of an accordian derailment.

Who was the former owner of that line of the UP?

Ed Burns

 

Rock Island, via CNW.

Jeff

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Posted by mudchicken on Friday, July 26, 2019 5:28 PM

You will most likely see a Jordan Spreader or a shoulder cutter hotly persued by a ballast train and a production surfacing gang.

More likely to see a bunch of rubber tired Klutts Cutters (real chains!)and a local lumber outfit hauling that stuff off (especially the oak) for charcoal manufacturing not that far southeast. (That be Kingsford country, I'm sure Uncle Pete can bring da lighter fluid.) ... and a quick check artist (claim agent) if the bubbas wander off the property opposite the parallel highway (US-65?). 

Question: was all that yellow equipment already there for some reason? (Smelled of mechanical failure before the images of all the heavy equipment appeared....appears to have "blown-up" at close to district speed with a really long train)

 

Eddie: CRIP 15th Sub; MO-KAN Division (Eldon IA - Trenton
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Posted by caldreamer on Friday, July 26, 2019 6:53 PM

Like my wife said "The cats are going to have fun in the sand box today". 7000 tons of sand to play in.

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Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, July 26, 2019 9:28 PM

If they have to bring in a big vacuum cleaner to pick up the sand, that's gonna suck!

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Friday, July 26, 2019 11:10 PM

I did the math if they are going to collect the sand to salvage it. 7k tons will require almost 300 trailers for the salvage based on a 22 ton load. 

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Posted by traisessive1 on Saturday, July 27, 2019 3:40 AM

Undercutters don't come around on the PSR railroad until you're literally running on mud. And even then, you are still likely to run on mud because they don't want to drop rock. 

Surfacing is only done as spot checks in problem areas as well. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by BaltACD on Saturday, July 27, 2019 7:35 AM

What I am wondering - what are the physical characteristics of the area to get 70 cars in the derailment. 

In my experience when you start getting much over 30 cars involved there is generally a fairly stiff down grade involved with the potential for the derailment to have been a runaway.  There has to be a sustained kenitic energy in the train to get as many as 70 cars involved.

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Posted by MMLDelete on Saturday, July 27, 2019 8:59 AM

Re-route the track, create an artificial lake, and call it a beach resort. Flip all the hoppers upside-down, cut doors and windows into them, rent as cottages.

Get a government economic development grant to help out.

 

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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, July 27, 2019 10:25 AM

Lithonia Operator

Re-route the track, create an artificial lake, and call it a beach resort. Flip all the hoppers upside-down, cut doors and windows into them, rent as cottages.

Get a government economic development grant to help out.

 

 

Yes, when life hands you a lemon, make lemonade.Big Smile

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Posted by CShaveRR on Saturday, July 27, 2019 11:23 AM

Observations from a person who really probably doesn't know what he's talking about any more.

This was obviously a loaded frac-sand train, so all of the cars in the train were 286K GRL.  So you're talking more like 120 tons per car than 100.

The picture I saw showed the locomotive units (one of which was derailed) and one car well ahead of the rest of the pileup.  There may have another car off (and I do mean off!) by itself over the intervening distance.  That distance suggested that momentum carried a derailed locomotive a considerable distance from the wreck before an emergency application could bring it to a stop.  

There also appeared to be a considerable number of upright cars behind the wreck.   There's the muscular arm pushing the bellows of the accordion!  

Was there a DPU?  If yes, there would have been an emergency application initiated from the hind end, which would have done little except prevent more cars from being folded in.  If no, I submit that DP on the hind end might have pulled back (in a manner of speaking, with "pull" meaning "less push") more cars from derailing.  I've seen these trains with hind-end DPs, but don't recall them with mid-train DPUs instead (or was there a locomotive buried in there somewhere?).  Edit:  Even FRED could have initiated an emergency application, so I guess the presence or absence of a DPU didn't matter much in the aftermath.

Jeff, can you address these bits of speculation?  Did I get things right, or leave anything out?

Carl

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Posted by Shadow the Cats owner on Saturday, July 27, 2019 11:46 AM

I did a little looking and it looks like a .2 downgrade in that area.  Not much of a help but it would have been pushing the cars a bit.

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Posted by traisessive1 on Saturday, July 27, 2019 12:38 PM

These loaded cars would likely be 140-142 tons, not 120. 

10000 feet and no dynamics? Today is going to be a good day ... 

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, July 27, 2019 6:39 PM

mudchicken

 

 

Eddie: CRIP 15th Sub; MO-KAN Division (Eldon IA - Trenton
MO....Middle of the Spine Line)

 

It being understood that Eldon to Allerton, IA is long gone.  Now it's the UP's Trenton subdivision from Des Moines to Kansas City.

UP may still own the right of way from Allerton to Seymour, IA.  The CNW acquired that years ago when they thought they were going to get the slimmed down MILW core system.  Had they acquired the MILW, they had plans on relaying track from Allerton to Seymour and then abandoning the MILW from Seymour to Polo, MO.

Jeff 

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Posted by CShaveRR on Sunday, July 28, 2019 8:18 AM

traisessive1
These loaded cars would likely be 140-142 tons, not 120. 


I was talking load limit when I said 120.  Note that I mentioned the 143-ton gross rail load.  The 120 was given as an upward revision from 100 of the load in each car, when it comes to beach formation (seriously, it would almost be easier to get the ballast out of the sand than the sand out of the ballast at that point).

Carl

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Posted by zardoz on Sunday, July 28, 2019 10:33 AM

BaltACD
There has to be a sustained kenitic energy in the train to get as many as 70 cars involved.

Especially loaded sand cars which seems to me that they would absorb quite a bit of that energy.

Having never run a sand train, I connot say how good the brakes are on those cars. Like Balt said, that many cars derailed tells me either the speed was quite high, or the brakes do a lousy job. 

My only experience with heavy, short cars was running ore trains; those brakes were not so great either.

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Posted by Euclid on Sunday, July 28, 2019 11:40 AM

The only derailment I have seen that looked like this one was the one in Australia maybe 6-8 months ago when that loaded ore train ran away after being stopped.  That train did get up to a very high speed and it was intentionally derailed by dispatchers to prevent it from entering the terminal.  I would have to go back to check, but I seem to recall that about 130 ore cars bunched into a perfectly aligned accordion like this sand train did.  The track there was staight.

Except with the ore train, the cars were open-top, so the ore was more free to be thrown up and out.  So in that accordion, the cars were about 75% obscured by being buried in the red ore. 

It almost seems like they would have needed a big machine that would pluck out each car, shake the ore out of it, and place the empty car in row for subsequent handling.   

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Posted by zardoz on Sunday, July 28, 2019 1:18 PM

Euclid
The only derailment I have seen that looked like this one was the one in Australia maybe 6-8 months ago when that loaded ore train ran away after being stopped.  That train did get up to a very high speed and it was intentionally derailed by dispatchers to prevent it from entering the terminal.  I would have to go back to check, but I seem to recall that about 130 ore cars bunched into a perfectly aligned accordion like this sand train did.  The track there was staight.

Here (go to 1:51, also at 4:02)are examples of accordian action taking place at about 40mph:

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