It'll get built, just as Trump got his casino in Atlantic City built.
Personally I don't care who winds up owning the place, or how far into debt or the pokey they go doing it. I do think someone, probably sooner rather than later, will set it up ... knowing as they do that no one will drive there on the available roads, and certainly won't get there by bike or snowmobile.
MidlandMike So now after ARTA has fought and convinced the State to remove the Tupper-Lake Placid tracks, they now want to remove the Thendara-Tupper tracks?
So now after ARTA has fought and convinced the State to remove the Tupper-Lake Placid tracks, they now want to remove the Thendara-Tupper tracks?
Missed this earlier.
Actually, some portion of the "trail advocates" want the tracks gone all the way to Remsen.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
The final proposal can be found here: http://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/62816.html
The following public hearings will be held. Another is scheduled for Utica, however I don't have the date.
Tupper Lake: Dec. 3 from 6 to 8 p.m. at Tupper Lake Middle-High School, 131 Chaney Ave, Tupper Lake, NY 12986Lake Placid: Dec. 4 from 6 to 8 p.m. at the Lake Placid Conference Center, 2608 Main St., Lake Placid, NY 12946Old Forge: Dec. 5 from 6 to 8 p.m. at the View Arts Center, 3256 Rt 28, Old Forge, NY 13420
The Draft UMP Amendment/SEIS can be viewed and downloaded from the DEC website, listed above.
The deadline for comments is close of business Dec. 20, 2019. Comments may be provided at any of the public meetings; mailed to John Schmid, NYSDEC, 625 Broadway, Albany, NY, 12233-4254; or e-mailed to adirondackpark@dec.ny.gov.
Before you send any comments, please be sure to read the proposed UMP. Craft your comments to address what you see as shortcomings to the plan, and what you feel would be the benefits of leaving the tracks in place.
Citing your personal experience (if you have some that relates) can't hurt, either.
"Railfan" comments ("you can't take away our trains!") will do the cause little or no good.
Noting the value of the rails as a tourist attraction and a source of revenue for local businesses is a plus. Verifiable information about the shortcomings of trails would be good, too.
There is little chance of any "industrial" use of the corridor.
Regarding "industrial use" you mean freight service. But who knows exactly what the future may bring in that area?
daveklepper Regarding "industrial use" you mean freight service. But who knows exactly what the future may bring in that area?
Yes - Freight.
Given APA's track record, the possibility of industrial development in the park is virtually nil, but - never say never.
Does anyone have any report on how the hearings went?
daveklepper Does anyone have any report on how the hearings went?
Heavily attended by the trail crowd - probably the same people at every hearing.
This is a busy time for the railroad - two Polar Express productions a night four nights a week, plus an single production one night. All the volunteers and the staff are straight out keeping the trains running, etc. Attending such hearings is truly secondary. When a sold out train means some 600 passengers, you tend to focus on that.
And this is why the written comments are so important. If you haven't started drafting yours, you have until January 7th to get it done and in. Remember - read and address the proposal. "I love trains and you shouldn't get rid of this one" won't carry much, if any, weight.
Some of the same nuts that were pushing for stealing this asset from the public and future generations, are now pushing for hiker permits for trail users in the Adirondacks.
Another push to keep visitors out of their park.
Leo_Ames Some of the same nuts that were pushing for stealing this asset from the public and future generations, are now pushing for hiker permits for trail users in the Adirondacks. Another push to keep visitors out of their park.
Someone did a synopsis of the major players in the rail/trail thing a while back, and pointed out that one of those major players was actually anti-hiker - an interesting position to have if you're advocating for a hiking trail.
And you hit the nail on the head - "their" park.
tree68And you hit the nail on the head - "their" park.
True indeed. I've mentioned it before and there's no harm in mentioning it again, but there is a sub-culture of what I'll call "outdoor snobs" who view wilderness areas as their private preserve and don't want any of the "great unwashed" to gain access.
Lest any of you think I'm making this up, I read about this in an article in "Blue Ridge Outdoors" magazine, a local publication dedicated to outdoor sports. The author excoriated the "outdoor snob" attitude, both she and the "Blue Ridge" staff are of the belief the more people involved in the outdoors the better, as more will be interested in preservation of wilderness areas.
She also mentioned a term the "outdoor snobs" apply to those not in the "club," tourons, a combining of the words "tourist" and "morons."
Nice, huh?
Flintlock76True indeed. I've mentioned it before and there's no harm in mentioning it again, but there is a sub-culture of what I'll call "outdoor snobs" who view wilderness areas as their private preserve and don't want any of the "great unwashed" to gain access.
"fake rich".
People with enough money to buy a nice house in a nice area, but not rich enough to buy enough land to enjoy. So they want the gov't to pay for their private pursuits.
It's been fun. But it isn't much fun anymore. Signing off for now.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.t fun any
zugmann"fake rich". People with enough money to buy a nice house in a nice area, but not rich enough to buy enough land to enjoy. So they want the gov't to pay for their private pursuits.
That's certainly part of it, the others are the fanatics, fanatic skiers, trail bikers, trail runners, white water kayakers, and others who won't welcome anyone who doesn't have their level of fanaticism.
What those folks do for a living when they're not indulging in their sports is a mystery.
Flintlock76That's certainly part of it, the others are the fanatics, fanatic skiers, trail bikers, trail runners, white water kayakers, and others who won't welcome anyone who doesn't have their level of fanaticism.
I would say level of investment. The people who are really into it seem to be the ones that are cool. The ones that just spend money and want the "look" are the ... um... sphincters.
It's like the guy that has the Harley hat, harley shirt, harley wallet/chain, harley mug that you never see ride his bike, and the dude that doesn't have any of that stuff, and rides his bike to work in a snowstorm.
zugmann Flintlock76 True indeed. I've mentioned it before and there's no harm in mentioning it again, but there is a sub-culture of what I'll call "outdoor snobs" who view wilderness areas as their private preserve and don't want any of the "great unwashed" to gain access. "fake rich". People with enough money to buy a nice house in a nice area, but not rich enough to buy enough land to enjoy. So they want the gov't to pay for their private pursuits.
Flintlock76 True indeed. I've mentioned it before and there's no harm in mentioning it again, but there is a sub-culture of what I'll call "outdoor snobs" who view wilderness areas as their private preserve and don't want any of the "great unwashed" to gain access.
Fired up my TR-7 with the top down for a ride yesterday cruising the back roads around my relatively rural county. Seeing many 1930's & 40's houses that were built on high ground overlooking 'vistas'. They may have overlooked 'vistas' when they were built, however in the 21st Century they are overlooking McMansion developments. If you aren't rich enough to own the vista, you don't control the vista and have to live with the decisions of the actual owners of those properties.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
It is a thing where the fanatics regard the woods, the bike trails, the perfect train-spotting location and what not as theirs and you aren't welcome. I recently saw the Werner Herzog film called Grizzly Man about a guy who loved grizzly bears. He regarded them as his property and he resented anyone else like forest rangers who would also have an interest. Only he knew what the bears were thinking! I guess they thought he was delicious.
54light15 It is a thing where the fanatics regard the woods, the bike trails, the perfect train-spotting location and what not as theirs and you aren't welcome. I recently saw the Werner Herzog film called Grizzly Man about a guy who loved grizzly bears. He regarded them as his property and he resented anyone else like forest rangers who would also have an interest. Only he knew what the bears were thinking! I guess they thought he was delicious.
An absolute lesson, to be learned here! One can get so tied up in the details; they are off-guard. Consumed by the passion they were focused on. Failing to see the building storm; til they were scattered across the landscape by the storm, they had failed to note.
54light15 Only he knew what the bears were thinking! I guess they thought he was delicious.
Oh yeah. He looked at the bears and saw a magnificent species of wildlife. The bears looked at him and saw lunch!
Flintlock76 54light15 Only he knew what the bears were thinking! I guess they thought he was delicious. Oh yeah. He looked at the bears and saw a magnificent species of wildlife. The bears looked at him and saw lunch!
While bears are looking for all the protein that they can get - a human is a rather meager source. Doubt that he was lunch, more like a appetizer.
zugmannI would say level of investment. The people who are really into it seem to be the ones that are cool. The ones that just spend money and want the "look" are the ... um... sphincters.
The issue is that some of the really well-heeled proponents of preservation in the Adirondacks -- and one of them is married to someone I knew in high school -- are both motivated and patient enough to get 'forever wild' to work. And there is little love lost between them and the snowmobiling petty-bourgeois community. There are reasons you haven't seen the reversion arguments raised publicly. Yet. No wine before its time.
Any update on the results of the hearings held last Dec.?
MidlandMike Any update on the results of the hearings held last Dec.?
Don't buy a ticket to Lake Placid...
tree68 MidlandMike Any update on the results of the hearings held last Dec.? Don't buy a ticket to Lake Placid...
I used to love riding and railfanning the Lake Placid-Saranac Lake section. I'm guessing there's not much hope of things being restored...
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
Harrison, I'm so glad you're here. This thread and others will give a young man like yourself an idea of how the "real world" works, not how some think it works or should work.
Use it to your advantage!
Amen. Harrison, you are a welcome addition here!
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