edblysard Pretty much whatever order they fall in. Once we get the cars back to one of our yards, we will switch them into cuts for BNSF, UP and KCS interchange...our "captive shippers" are only captive to us, once we get the car, we can send it out on any of our three member lines the customer wants.
Pretty much whatever order they fall in.
Once we get the cars back to one of our yards, we will switch them into cuts for BNSF, UP and KCS interchange...our "captive shippers" are only captive to us, once we get the car, we can send it out on any of our three member lines the customer wants.
Ed, when the PTRA switch crew get the pulls from plants like Vopak. Does the first hazmat car need to be some cars away from the engine?
If that's so, do the Vopak crew see to that when they gather the pulls (even though they don't block the rest of the cars), or do your crew have to sort that out?
Mattias
Ed:You seriously need to write a book on local operations. This has been a fantastic review of how "stuff works" on a railroad.
Years ago when I would go out to take photos, it was always the mainline trains that were sought out. Today it is the local train operations which seems far more interesting. The South Shore runs a nice local to Kingsbury, In on Tuesdays and Thursdays which I have been considering following. Not nearly as complex as Houston, but fascinating in it's own sense.
Regarding intra plant switch moves...what is a typical charge for that service? Are tariff rates usually applied or are those negoitated with customers? I could see relationships back in the day in which a "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" were arranged between local traffic managers and crews...perhaps in the form of a dinner or rule G violation.
Most of my trucking customers have locater type hardware, such as Sky Bitz, which monitors exact locations of the trailers at all times. What about railcars? Would that help in exact locations and placements?Ed
Port Terminal Railroad Association - Tariff
23 17 46 11
Thanks for the link to the tariff Ed. I am an old Traffic Guy and enjoy reading tariffs. Not too many freebies I could find in there, but didnt look too closely.
So, I could rent a train (engine and crew) for $7000 for 8 hours....sounds like fun.
Ed
Ed, how big a crew is included. Two or three? How often is this charge invoked?
My dad was involved with tariff's and practiced before the ICC. He knew all the rules. Also wrote atricles (under a pen name) for trains back in the late 1940's. One was about how to use optional routings that the railroads offered that let you go say from Chicago to New York via many different routes and have stop overs in various cities. You could go on the Pennsylvania direct via Pittsburg and Philly, or for the same fare, go via Washington DC, or go via Columbus OH. It was "How to Use Optional Routes, April 1947, Volume 7, No 6" So I appreciate seeing the tariff. The Official Guides of the early 70's had Amtraks tariff.
A standard crew on the PTRA is an engineer, a switch engine foreman, and a switchman.
The switchman and engine foreman both are certified conductors, qualified and licensed under federal rules and requirements, and the engineer has a federal license also.
We are qualified to run on some portions of the UP and BNSF in CTC mainline, hence we carry their rulebooks also.
The request to 'hire" a crew has not, as far as I know, been made since I came to work here in 97....I would imagine it was a little more common back in the day before these industries aquired their own switch crews and locomotives.
Looking at the Rail Network Map from the PTRA homepage there is the New PTRA main to Barbours cut. Do the tracks around the Barbours Cut Container Terminal belong to PTRA? How about the intermodal rail ramp and the spurs to the nearby transloading terminals? Who can operate on those tracks and on whose permission?
According to the Port of Houston Authority’s webpage the rail ramp is operated by a contractor, but the primary railroad companies are BNSF, UP, and PTRA. I’ve also read that Frontier Logistics have a switch crew that works their terminal at Barbours Cut.
I’m guessing it takes some coordination to let everybody do their part.
The PTRA main is ours, but dispatched by the Joint Dispatch Center is Spring Texas, they control the entire Metroplex...
We have to get permission to go into the ramp and the Cut...Both BNSF and UP deliver unit trains to our Pasadena yard, our crews run them out to the Cut, and both BNSF and UP can us the UP main to acess the Cut too.
Ok, so they coordinate the different railroads, and give you permission for the rail ramp.
Could you tell me some more about what happens when you arrive or leave with a train at the rail ramp, like you did about Vopak.
For example when you arrive with a loaded unit train, do you go to the loading/unloading area directly, or to the “yard tracks” next to the ramp? How many of the tracks would the train normally fill up, and is it the road engines that split the train? Also, would engines that bring in a train wait until there’s an outgoing train they can take with them, or would there be light engines moves to and from the rail ramp? Maybe some UP engines go to Strang in between assignments?
We drag in, and fill up on average 3 of the yard tracks, as per their instructions.
The locomotives stay there with the train.
Occasionaly we will put a cut in the ramp, but they have a specific order they want the train put away so they can unload it in a given manner.
They have a crew that moves the cars around as they wish, with the road power, and they assemble the empty in the yard tracks, leaving the locomotives there.
Thanks Ed!
After an incoming train gets unloaded, would it be reloaded with outgoing containers before leaving, or would it leave empty?
Loved the description.
The IGN
They leave out empty.
A switchman? Such a rare breed anymore. It's amazing how much you could shift in a yard with a good conductor/brakeman combo. Now so many crews are one man, or with a utility that can't work over 8 hours.
I'll withhold further opinions, lest I get myself in trouble.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
zugmannIt's amazing how much you could shift in a yard with a good conductor/brakeman combo.
I see it every time I run our trains with just an engineer and a conductor. Runarounds take just that much longer... And the conductor walks just that much further...
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
All T&E on my carrier start out as switchman trainees...after rules class they mark up and work a probationary period of 90 days, in which time anyone of us can "turn" (remove them from service) them for justified reason...rules violations, un safe practice, simply not catching on to what we do, so forth and so on.
edblysardIt is possible for a two year guy to be the foreman and have a 20 year man as his switchman....the switch engine foreman runs the job.
That works as long as the brakeman is seen and not heard. Yeah... been in s imilar situation with an older guy as my utility. It was a bit frustrating at times. I liked the guy and learned tons from him - but he was not a good swtchman/brakeman/utility/whatever. He needed to be the conductor.
Yeah, had a few like that myself...ledgends in their own minds!
A good switchman doesn't use much of his brain. He uses his butt - to sit down and let the conductor figure out the work.
Which is how the old heads taught us when we were the new guys...they wouldn't let us do really dangerous stuff that might get someone hurt or tear stuff up, but they had no problem letting us make mistakes that resulted in us having to make more moves than needed, or double handle cars...once we wore ourselves out some, they would offer a "suggestion" on how to do it faster or easier....which in the end taught us better than any class room or rule book lesson.
One of the cardinal lessons we learned right quick was, if you have to go down there, make sure you only have go to there once!
Thanks Ed. This thread has been interesting and educational. It helped me to look at the map of PTRA and peek at it on Google Earth.
Norm
If you find the intersection of Wayside and Clinton Drive, you find where I work.
One more question: Assume a very simple case of a customer with only two spots on a stub track. Spot 1 is occupied by a car that is only partly loaded or unloaded. A car to be placed at Spot 2 arrives. The car at Spot 1 is moved to allow placing the newly arrived car and the car originally at Spot 1 is returned there. Is there an intra-plant switching charge?
ChuckAllen, TX
No.
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