With the ebb and flow of business it is not that uncommon to have qualified Engineers that have been cut off the Engineers Board and are back working as Conductors.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
BaltACD With the ebb and flow of business it is not that uncommon to have qualified Engineers that have been cut off the Engineers Board and are back working as Conductors.
During the worst of the downturn 8 or 9 years ago, the furlough list contained a few conductors who had qualified as engineers. We still have a few conductors who have qualifed as engineers, but have never touched a throttle as an engineer.
For us, it used to be that if an engineer at his/her home terminal (our district has about 5 terminals that qualify as such) couldn't hold any of the engineer boards, they could set themselves back to conductor. That would allow engineers with less "whiskers" keep working in their home terminal and everyone was happy. Almost everyone. A young conductor who was bumped off a premium assignment as a result of an engineer setting back, complained. It was found that this practice, which had been going on a long time, was contrary to some older contract provision. So now, an engineer has to exhaust the ability to work as an engineer, chasing his/her seniority over the entire district before being able to set back. Of course, this usually means the youngest are forced to take jobs up to a couple hundred miles away from home. And because it's viewed as a seniority move, there is no company lodging offered. (At least some hotels, will give the corporate rate even though the company isn't paying for the room. We've had a couple guys quit (a few more thinking about it) the railroad and industry entirely, over this seniority chasing. It's a reason others say they wish they hadn't gone into engine service. They've been trying to negotiate home zones with the seniority district, but so far nothings happened.
As for the trainmen, they don't have to chase their seniority. If they can't hold their home or close to home, they can choose to accept being furloughed or going to a reserve/training board (when such board is active) that works two days a week.
Jeff
And I might add - no two local labor contracts have all the same provisions in what is required to continue to maintain and/or exercise seniority. What Jeff has just mentioned is the way things work where he is - the way they work at another location or on another railrod can be entirely different. All these different contract provisions were negotiated by the local work force in the craft to protect THEIR interests at the time the agreement was negotiated with NO KNOWLEDGE of how things would work out 5 years, 10 years 20 years down the road.
It is a hard life once you become an enginner or conductor you will never see your home or family again. You will live a boomers life 24/7 in the cab of a locomotive, no food, no rest, no vacation, no sick leave, and no benafits. Once you sign on you are there until it kills you or you retire. Once you step on that engine you go 12 hours until you reach the end of your shift, but guess what you only get a few hours sleep then you are back in the cab and back on the road. It does not end when you get to an interchange town like Chicago because management will just transfer you to another railroad and you keep on going non stop. You go from the west coast to the east coast Canada to Mexico and every railroad in North America. Once you board a train say goodbye to everything you know and welcome to the life of a boomer on the road. The only guys who get a break are the local crews and the shortlines everyone else is a boomer they live on the road.
geomodelrailroaderIt is a hard life once you become an enginner or conductor you will never see you home or family again. You will be condemed to a boomers life 24/7 in the cab of a locomotive, no food, no rest, no vacation, no sick leave, and no benafits.
Yeah... that's not how any of this works.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
Want a bet? I heard stories a railroaders life is the boomers life they never see home they are always on the move and always switching railroads all to get the freight delivered.
Ummm. Yeah, I'll take that bet.
A railroader for the most part is a boomer always going from job to job terminal to terminal railroad to railroad. The only home they see is a second rate hotel they only get 4 hours of sleep then it is back in the cab to the next terminal. I heard guys who went from San Francisco to New York non stop all by train. That is the railroaders life.
If you say so.
geomodelrailroaderA railroader for the most part is a boomer always going from job to job terminal to terminal railroad to railroad. The only home they see is a second rate hotel they only get 4 hours of sleep then it is back in the cab to the next terminal. I heard guys who went from San Francisco to New York non stop all by train. That is the railroaders life.
Maybe on the model railroads. There are Hours of Service and route qualification requirements to be observed on real railroads.
geomodelrailroader A railroader for the most part is a boomer always going from job to job terminal to terminal railroad to railroad. The only home they see is a second rate hotel they only get 4 hours of sleep then it is back in the cab to the next terminal. I heard guys who went from San Francisco to New York non stop all by train. That is the railroaders life.
Also, each road involved in such a move has divisions--and road service employees do not work on more than one division.
Johnny
Here's a link to one of those second rate motels. (Wait until I tell them at the front desk.) https://www.wyndhamhotels.com/baymont/fremont-nebraska/baymont-inn-and-suites-fremont/overview
Almost nothing you have said is even close to the truth. Other than to expect to work a lot because new people usually can only hold an extra board. Even then, you get 10 hours* undisturbed rest between runs. And that's a minimum, you might have more time off depending on traffic requirements and how many vacancies occur on the assignments the extra board protects.
* There is a provision for a engr or condr to be given only 4 hours rest. But that would be considered within one trip/tour of duty. Afterward you don't have another 12 hrs available to work, only what remains when you were tied up for 4 hrs rest. You also have to be told you are being given the 4 hour break. You can't tie up and 4 hours later they are calling to use up any remaining time. It happens, but is rare. I've only done it once in 20 years.
I’d say someone has been reading too many “railroad man” stories from fifty years ago.
My youngest son has been a Class 1 conductor for about 13 months now and, while his diet may not be the best when he’s working road service; that’s more his personal choice than a necessity.
He has never complained (much) about the quality of his away from home lodging although, being qualified on three different districts he has noted lodging is better in two of his away from home terminals than the third. In any case; he has found the rooms to be clean and comfortable.
And in terms of his hours; as others have noted the current hours of service provide for ten uninterrupted hours of rest and after working six consecutive days HOS provides for two days off.
It is true you can be called for a train at just about any hour of the day or night but; he knew that going in and seems to enjoy the variable hours.
jeffhergertHere's a link to one of those second rate motels.
Yeah, looks like a real dump.
I’ve noticed that the non-local UP track crews have mostly moved to the Tehachapi Fairfield Inn the past few years, as opposed to the older Best Western two lots east. That's definitely an improvement. I’ve also learned that when a bunch of UP vehicles are parked there at night, the train watching will be sparse the next day, like none at all until an hour or so before sunset when the parade (usually of westbounds) starts.
jeffhergertHere's a link to one of those second rate motels. (Wait until I tell them at the front desk.) https://www.wyndhamhotels.com/baymont/fremont-nebraska/baymont-inn-and-suites-fremont/overview Almost nothing you have said is even close to the truth. Other than to expect to work a lot because new people usually can only hold an extra board. Even then, you get 10 hours* undisturbed rest between runs. And that's a minimum, you might have more time off depending on traffic requirements and how many vacancies occur on the assignments the extra board protects. Jeff * There is a provision for a engr or condr to be given only 4 hours rest. But that would be considered within one trip/tour of duty. Afterward you don't have another 12 hrs available to work, only what remains when you were tied up for 4 hrs rest. You also have to be told you are being given the 4 hour break. You can't tie up and 4 hours later they are calling to use up any remaining time. It happens, but is rare. I've only done it once in 20 years.
The old Railroad YMCA lodging facilities were all closed down in the mid to late 80's on CSX and lodging facilities were established at local motel/hotels - my understanding is that those that are selected are required to have 24 hour housekeeping staff (and while they may have such at the time they are selected - some will stop it if it suits their needs). They are also 'supposed' to be within walking distance of a source of hot food.
A second issue that happens (or at least happened in the mid-Atlantic towns where the crew bases I worked with) when there is a 'event' in the area that will permit the facility to charge non-railroad guests the max rate that shows on the back of the door - railroad rooms seem to disappear (railroad rooms are rented at a contracted rate).
Railroaders being railroaders would complain if the where put up in the penthouse suite of a 15 strory Hilton. Complaining seems to be a required part of the job, just like it is a requirement of being a part of the armed services.
On a couple of the districts I supervised we did use the 4 hour respite provisions of the HOS law - outbound run would take 4 to 6 hours, intended train back home would be arriving in 2 to 4 hours from the tie up - tell the crew to SHOW UP back on duty X time (4 hours after their tie up time). We could do it reliabely on trains that did not work between the O-D points. If a train was going to work, they crew needed to be fully rested from either origin point.
DeggestyIs somebody pulling your leg?
A member since 2011 with only a few dozen posts, and he's going to tell those with many years of service how their job is done? Yeah.
I'd also like to get in on that aformentioned bet.
zardoz Deggesty Is somebody pulling your leg? Do trolls even have legs? A member since 2011 with only a few dozen posts, and he's going to tell those with many years of service how their job is done? Yeah. I'd also like to get in on that aformentioned bet.
Deggesty Is somebody pulling your leg?
Do trolls even have legs?
From his statements, it seemed to me that he had little knowledge of 12 inch to the foot railroading, and was depending on guff that someone had fed him. As all of you regulars know, I have never worked for a railroad, but over the years have picked up a little understanding from the many who have been in the industry for years.
I am used to seeing the work of trolls on political sites, but cannot imagine why such a creature would even visit Kalmbach, much less post nonsense.
I tried to be nice to him in explaining some of the facts of life--but it may have been a waste of time and keystrokes.
Thanks for your response.
Deggesty I am used to seeing the work of trolls on political sites, but cannot imagine why such a creature would even visit Kalmbach, much less post nonsense.
There have been a couple on here, most notably that guy from Ohio who went through about a dozen accounts in 4 or 5 years, and that Hunter Harrison fanboi who was spouting nonsense over on Frailey's blogs for a while (I think his screenname was 'railroadsaregreat').
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
BaltACD Railroaders being railroaders would complain if the where put up in the penthouse suite of a 15 strory Hilton. Complaining seems to be a required part of the job, just like it is a requirement of being a part of the armed services.
Well yeah, think of the taxi ride to and from the yard in city traffic, what a nightmare. And the company is so cheap that you have to pay for your own room service, what a rip-off!
SD70DudeAnd the company is so cheap that you have to pay for your own room service, what a rip-off!
And to top that off, you can’t take advantage of the honor bar fridge because you may have to give a urine sample after somebody tries to beat you to the grade crossing in their soon-to-be-totaled vehicle.
BaltACD A second issue that happens (or at least happened in the mid-Atlantic towns where the crew bases I worked with) when there is a 'event' in the area that will permit the facility to charge non-railroad guests the max rate that shows on the back of the door - railroad rooms seem to disappear (railroad rooms are rented at a contracted rate).
We've run into that problem before. Our old lodging facility was a locally owned motel. When the College World Series was going on in Omaha they would run out of rooms. With every other hotel/motel filled up, sometimes crew members would end up going a long way from Fremont. I only had to go as far as Missouri Valley, about 30 miles. Some had to go to Lincoln or Columbus. I remember some being sent to Sioux City. Sioux City to Fremont is one crew district.
The Baymont Inn in Fremont was originally an Oak Tree Inn. That chain had ties to the UP (It was said one of the people on the board of directors started it.) Almost their entire locations were UP crew change locations. There were a few on other lines, BNSF and a couple in CSX territory. Rooms are better sound proofed and the curtains are heavy and have magnets to help keep them closed. The Penny's Diner restaurants were built in many locations that didn't otherwise have 24 hour food service within an easy distance.
Within the last year Oak Tree was sold to Wyndham. The Oak Trees have either become Baymont Inns or Travel Lodges.
Railroaders complain about their lot in life, and I am sure truck drivers do like wise. How about seafarers? Came across the following YouTube Channel published by a Chief Engineer on the high seas and explaining the life of a mariner.
How is life for shortline workers? Is the lifestyle more relaxed than that of a mainline conductor?
I have an interview for a local 50 mile shortline railway so I'm curious if there is more family time working a shortline. Thanks
CamdenBobHow is life for shortline workers? Is the lifestyle more relaxed than that of a mainline conductor? I have an interview for a local 50 mile shortline railway so I'm curious if there is more family time working a shortline. Thanks
Since it is a 50 mile short line - you won't be faced with an away from home terminal. For the most part you will be involved in switching industries and interchange cuts. Observation is that short line personel get some training and practice from most all the aspects of railroading down to and including swing a spke hammer in anger from time to time. You will be covered by the application of the Hours Of Service law, which will limit your on duty work hours to 12 - deadheading after 12 hours constitutes 'Limbo Time' that does not constiture rest time.
geomodelrailroader It is a hard life once you become an enginner or conductor you will never see your home or family again. You will live a boomers life 24/7 in the cab of a locomotive, no food, no rest, no vacation, no sick leave, and no benafits. Once you sign on you are there until it kills you or you retire. Once you step on that engine you go 12 hours until you reach the end of your shift, but guess what you only get a few hours sleep then you are back in the cab and back on the road. It does not end when you get to an interchange town like Chicago because management will just transfer you to another railroad and you keep on going non stop. You go from the west coast to the east coast Canada to Mexico and every railroad in North America. Once you board a train say goodbye to everything you know and welcome to the life of a boomer on the road. The only guys who get a break are the local crews and the shortlines everyone else is a boomer they live on the road.
Lithonia Operator geomodelrailroader It is a hard life once you become an enginner or conductor you will never see your home or family again. You will live a boomers life 24/7 in the cab of a locomotive, no food, no rest, no vacation, no sick leave, and no benafits. Once you sign on you are there until it kills you or you retire. Once you step on that engine you go 12 hours until you reach the end of your shift, but guess what you only get a few hours sleep then you are back in the cab and back on the road. It does not end when you get to an interchange town like Chicago because management will just transfer you to another railroad and you keep on going non stop. You go from the west coast to the east coast Canada to Mexico and every railroad in North America. Once you board a train say goodbye to everything you know and welcome to the life of a boomer on the road. The only guys who get a break are the local crews and the shortlines everyone else is a boomer they live on the road. This is such a huge crock of manure, particularly the part I bolded. Mr. geomodelrailroader, a railroad employee works for a single railroad; they are NEVER sent to work on other lines (except in the rare cases of trains being temporarily detoured over other railroads; but even in that case, they are still employed by the railroad that hired them, and simply on foreign trackage for a while, under the supervision of a host-road pilot-engineer). Even on one's own railroad, a typical train service employee will spend most of their time working only on a single didvision or subdivision of a road (unless they put in for a trasfer to another area). If I'm not mistaken, most regular-job road crews go back and forth, back and forth on a single stretch of line stretching about 200-300 miles. Extra board personnel will float around a bit ,but only on their division. Some men spend thirty years switching in one yard in one city, period! West coast to east coast? Complete nonsense. The majority of train employees on Class 1s never even work on 75% of their own railroad.
Train and engine service employees normally only work the lines assigned to their home terminal, with the run lengths being as you described. Some railroads have multiple seniority districts, and to transfer from one to the other means you go back to the bottom of the list, not a desirable prospect.
An employee can be forced to temporarily work out of another terminal if they are laid off at their current home terminal and another terminal is short of employees at the same time. Employees can also bid these shortages if they wish to work them while still being able to hold at their current home terminal.
When out on a shortage the company pays for your accomodations, and you also get a daily meal allowance and reimbursment for driving miles and time.
Of course I can only speak for my own railroad and seniority district (CN's western Canada lines), your mileage may vary.
One territory I worked had a crew agreement that was confusing to the max.
Savannah - Waycross - Jacksonville - Fitzgerald, GA - Home terminal at Savannah.
Away from home terminals Waycross, Jacksonville, Fitzgerald.
A crew called out of Savannah could be called to Waycross or Jacksonville; a crew called to Waycross could either be tied up for rest or put on another train to tie up in Jacksonville. All crews arriving Jacksonville were tied up for rest.
At Jacksonville crews could be called to move trains to Waycross, Savannah and Fitzgerald. Crews called to Savannah were home when they tied up. Crews called to Waycross could be rested or put on another train destined Savannah. Crews called to Fitzgerald would take rest at Fitzgerald to away trains destined Jacksonville. All crews at Jacksonville were called first in, first out - without regard to the destination of the train
It was possible for a crew to fall into the 'wrong slot' and make more than one round trip to Fitzgerald. Note - to get to Fitzgerald all trains ran through Waycross. There were separate pools that operated trains betweeen Waycross and Fitzgerald and another pool that operated between Waycross and Manchester. Trains that were operated from Jacksonville to Fitzgerald were normally destined to Atlanta or beyond. There was a separate pool that operated Fitzgerald to Atlanta through Manchester.
geomodelrailroader misses two important points:
1. Crews (engineers especially) must be qualified on the territory. They can't just be assigned willy-nilly to any route the railroad wants to send them on. Some old heads may have many miles on which they are qualified, but normally crews will work certain trips, as has already been described.
2. Hours of service laws are pretty specific on hours worked and required rest. A crew that works 12 hours will see at least 10 hours of rest, which I believe includes 8 hours of uninterrupted rest.
Disclaimer - I volunteer on a tourist line. It's rare that we run into HOS issues due to our short runs and regular schedule. I'm familiar enough with HOS to stay out of trouble on our railroad, but when you get out on the Class 1's, things can get more complicated, with deadhead time, limbo time, and a host of other such considerations.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
tree68geomodelrailroader misses two important points: 1. Crews (engineers especially) must be qualified on the territory. They can't just be assigned willy-nilly to any route the railroad wants to send them on. Some old heads may have many miles on which they are qualified, but normally crews will work certain trips, as has already been described. 2. Hours of service laws are pretty specific on hours worked and required rest. A crew that works 12 hours will see at least 10 hours of rest, which I believe includes 8 hours of uninterrupted rest. Disclaimer - I volunteer on a tourist line. It's rare that we run into HOS issues due to our short runs and regular schedule. I'm familiar enough with HOS to stay out of trouble on our railroad, but when you get out on the Class 1's, things can get more complicated, with deadhead time, limbo time, and a host of other such considerations.
Current HOS law requires 10 hours uninterrupted - which, if the crew was not notified to report on their 10 hour expiration means that they will then get a 2 hour notice to report for duty AFTER the 10 hours has expired.
Deadheading to an assignment counts as work time for HOS purposes. Called on duty at A at 0100 with a two hour taxi ride to B to go to work, crew now has 10 hours to work from B. Getting on the train at B to go to Z, train gets to W and is tied down at 1300 on their HOS time. Transportation for the crew arrives at W at 1400 and the crew is transported to Z and ties up at the rest facility at 1500. They were On Duty for 12 hours A to W including the DH. They also get paid for the additional hour required to transport them from W to the rest facility - in doing this they have accumulated 60 minutes of 'Limbo Time'. The HOS law allows for 30 hours of Limbo Time for each employee per month. There are also crew start rules that are too involved to wade into.
Without asking for specific dollar amounts, when an engineer or conductor is assigned to a district or terminal, are they guaranteed a minimum income, or do they get zilch if there is insufficient traffic for them to get a trip? And what benefits do they get? Medical, Dental, Vision, Life insurance? Vacation? Also some short lines don't seem to have enough traffic to have more than 24 hours a week like a part time job. How does that work? Also, if one gets fuloughed, is there any income and/or benefits? Are they eligible for unemployment?
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