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How much snow to stop a train?

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Posted by Redore on Thursday, February 18, 2010 11:59 PM

 

An inch of blowing snow and the right temperature will freeze switches and tie up a yard something fierce.  Even switch heaters only go so far.  Besides, below -30 or so the propane won't vaporize without a vaporizer in the line.
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Posted by henry6 on Friday, February 19, 2010 9:31 AM

I believe geography, climate, preparedness, and experience are all factors in addition to equpment and operations.  Where there is very little snowfall a flake or two can send auto and rail traffic into all kinds of spins and standstills; where snow is a daily occurance from October to April, they know what to do in advance so that even several inches or more than a foot of snow will only slow things down and not bring all to a halt.  Plows and pilot plows help keep lines open and not stop a train.  Tracks that go untrfficed for long periods of time vs density of snowfall might stop but definitely slow a train or train service while a track that sees more frequent traffic vs density of snowfall will have fewer delays and stopages.  Switches which are frozen or snowed in can prevent movement thus switch heaters and or trackmen with brooms and shovels are needed to keep things rolling.  Lots of answers to your question but basically in boils down to where you're railroading and how prepared and knowledgeble you are.

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Posted by kolechovski on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 11:45 AM

After getting at least 18 inches of snow in the snowstorm 2 weeks ago, while switching in the yard at the plant, 1-1/2 empty hoppers went on the ground due to deep snow.

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Posted by Sawtooth500 on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 4:43 PM
kolechovski

After getting at least 18 inches of snow in the snowstorm 2 weeks ago, while switching in the yard at the plant, 1-1/2 empty hoppers went on the ground due to deep snow.

What exactly do you mean "went on the ground", like derailed?
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Posted by kolechovski on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 6:35 PM

Exactly.

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Posted by Sawtooth500 on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 8:24 PM
So I'm guessing you were pushing the hoppers so they were at the front of the train without the little mini-plow that's in front of the engine.... it's just amazing that snow could compact so much that it would lift a railcar... even an empty hopper still weighs many tons!
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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:20 PM

I just finished re-re-reading Robert D. Turner's "Steam on the Kettle Valley" today.  Some great snowplow pictures in it!  Of note was that they always had a section crew with them.  If a wedge plow got stopped, it would back off and the crew would shovel snow in front of it to provide a 'cushion' for the next attempt.  When a rotary got to a snowshed, or tunnel, the section hands would have to dig out the plug it left before it could pass through.  Not much fun, up on the Coquihalla, or elsewhere, in those winters!  We get "wind slabs", up here in Montana, due to the fierce winds.  No fun, even for the recreational snow shoveler!  No fun to ski on, either.  "They'll bite you!".

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Posted by Sawtooth500 on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:24 PM
Recreational Snow Shoveler? lol would you like to come to my house for some recreation? :)
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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Tuesday, February 23, 2010 9:36 PM

Dateline:  BNSF High Line, Shelberia, MT  --  we got up to +64.2 degrees F. today!  It is now +29, and falling!  Snow predicted.  Our DSs, in Ft. Worth, TX operate our switch heaters.  If no train crew notifies them of the changes in the weather, they have to rely on the 'Defect Detectors' to tell them what is going on, temp-wise.  True, the switch heaters are supposed to turn on, if enabled, by the presence of precipitation.  If someone doesn't check them, the game is lost.  That ain't nice.

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Posted by Kootenay Central on Thursday, February 25, 2010 9:53 AM

.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, February 25, 2010 10:15 AM

Wow   Somebody just got a big trainset in their backyard - all the cars derailed !   At 4:45 AM  = ''oh - dark - forty-five'', too The photo with the article reminds me of the ending of the Silver Streak movie somehow, too. 

Fortunately, no serious injuries, and apparently no damage to the houses.  Wonder if the cause was iced-in flangeways at a grade crossing, or a broken rail kind of thing

Thanks for calling this to our attention and posting the link, KC.   

- Paul North. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, February 25, 2010 11:38 AM

Paul_D_North_Jr
Thanks for calling this to our attention and posting the link, KC

Yes, thanks. According to the story, Ocean runs only five days a week (The overnight train normally runs the route five days a week, passing through New Brunswick with a stop in Moncton.) I just checked the schedule on VIA's website, and it shows that the train is run six days a week, leaving both Halifax and MontrĂ©al daily except Tuesday (X2). Perhaps the writer looked at a schedule and thought "X2" meant the train did not leave two days a week?

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Posted by BNSFwatcher on Thursday, February 25, 2010 1:19 PM

Okay.  Please forward your address.  What's for dinner?  I love Italian food!  I used to shovel snow, as a kid, in New York.  Made mega-$$$, in those days.  Now I live in an apartment complex and and park my truck 'in back'.  I try to keep a path clear to it, as I don't drive the Mustang GT in the snow, but, at age 71, I go at it slowly.  I do have a clunky old snow blower, and that is fun.  Getting snow cleared, out here in Montana, is a problem.  No one wants to work, especially the kids!  Will the day come when no one will work, all being on government entitlement programs?  Scary, methinks!!!   Anyhoo, snow shoveling, in moderation, is good exercise.

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Posted by Paul_D_North_Jr on Thursday, February 25, 2010 2:21 PM

BNSFwatcher

Okay.  Please forward your address.  What's for dinner?  I love Italian food!  . . .  Anyhoo, snow shoveling, in moderation, is good exercise.

Hays 

Agreed  Thumbs Up  - it can be a 'total-body, aerobic, and weight-training' exercise all together, with another good purpose or point to it   I also think it ought to be an Olympic sport, rather than some of the others . . . Soon it's time for me to go and get my daily dose, too . . .  [Why no 'emoticon' for that ?!?  

- Paul. 

"This Fascinating Railroad Business" (title of 1943 book by Robert Selph Henry of the AAR)
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Posted by seniorhoagyjr on Friday, February 26, 2010 3:50 PM
It really just depends on the force the train can exert on the snow. If the train has a greater force, the snow may move, but yes it does also depend on the amount of snow, and NO the train would not be able to get through if it was an unimaginatable amount of snow!
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Posted by wjstix on Friday, February 26, 2010 4:06 PM

Sawtooth500
Speaking of that train getting stuck at 40 mph, I've noticed a lot of time with plow trains it's just a plow with 3 engines. My guess would be why not put it in front of a full freight? That would give it a lot lot more momentum to plow through the heavy drifts. I'm also guessing there is a reason why this isn't done, and that reason is?

 

For one thing, you normally can only plow for so long before you stop - sometimes very suddenly. It's easy enough to derail an engine or the plow, but coming to a dead stop with 50-100 freight cars behind you would cause quite a crash. Plus, even if you stop OK, you now have to back up 100 freight cars to take a run at the snow...pretty hard to push back 50-100 cars. Once you do, it will take a lot more track to get a full freight up to "ramming speed" than three engines and a plow would.

Stix

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