How come even in towns with active rail lines you almost never see Railroad police? I have onley seen Union Pacific and Metra police at Ogolvie transportation Center, but how come you only see them in yards and in nhuge terminals? Is it the size of their jurstiction? I have seen NS's hudge intermodle yard on the South Side of Chicago and not one NS Special agent. Why is this? And if I go Railfanning what would a railroad police car look like please expleain, thank you.
I don't know about your first question, I suppose they patrol areas that have lots of tresspassers or something, but I do know that railroad police cars are very often SUVs (or other vehicles) with flashing lights and the railroad logo and "So-And-So Railroad Police" on the door.
I've never seen any NS police before either. CSX is the exact opposite, they aggresively patrol the areas around their lines. I've seen the EJ&E Police before but they have never given me a hard time about seeing their trains. The same thing with the IHB, I've seen their police but they have always been nice. A lot of CSX's police is in unmarked cars so be careful.
Here in Florida, I see the track inspectors and signal maintainers in the CSX pickup trucks and SUVs that have the "track wheels". Don't recall seeing CSX police, but since you've mentioned that they use unmarked cars, I'll keep that in mind in my future railfanning.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Yes, they come in specially marked SUV's. Your lucky not to have seedn or met any of these 'over zealous' folks. Ther normal jobs are to prevent trespassing and to prevent or deter vandalism of railroad equipment.
Their 'over-zealousness' tends to hit rail fans the harderst. They are not freiendly folks, often very rude and threatning. We've known folks (older rail fans; in their late 60 and 70's) to be threatened and ejected from areas around the Tehachappi loop in California. Threats were made that if thes 'older folks' did not clear out by the time they countd to 5, they would be hand-cuffed and taken to jail. These older rail fans were doing nothing except viewing and photographing the loop but were forced into running to their cars (they had two cars parked outside the track right of way area. Gone are the days of 'friendly railroads'. With UP, BNSF and N/S bieng three of the biggest, nastiness and rudeness now prevails.
They are all worried about liability problems. Rail fans normally would not be a liability, as most of these folks are into photographing trains and locations, not vandalizing. They also are very much aware of their surroundings and tend to not stand in the way of trains. Most rail fans are fairly intelligent and not inherently stupid.
On the west coast, UP wants to destroy the famous tunnels aroung the Tehachappi loop area, to "modernize". BNSF has already butchered the mountain side in and around the Cajon Pass area. They have also posted 'No Tresspassing' signs everywhere, preventing rail fans (without severe traveling difficulties) access to Cajon Pass locations such as 'Sullivan's Curve'. Nearly all Cajon Pass locations are within the State and Federal parks area.
Several years ago, some BNSF folks forgot to properly lock the brakes on a group of cars parked on a Cajon Pass siding towards the sumit. After they left, apparently the cars slowly started to roll, gaining speed as they travel down hill. Eventually, the cars crashed. BNSF blamed this on rail fans, as though rail fanning is all about comitting vandalism. I've never met a rail fan, yet, interested in comitting any type of vandalism. In fact, most are quite the opposite, doing what they can to prevent vandalism.
Within UP, not all the employess are of 'crappy disposition'. There are some that are quite friendly folks. Many of these came form the Southern Pacific railroad during the take-over (merger).
We actually went to one UP yard to ask permission to photograph an SP GE-dash 9 locomotive that had not yet been degraded by the 'infamous' UP yellow numbering block. We wanted photos for the purpose of detailing an HO model. while waiting for the supervisor in the office (there was no access gate), we met several engineers (all were friendly folks). Then we met the supervisor, a real idiot (to say the least). He informed us that we were trespassing and could be arrested. This in an office that had blank employment applications that could be taken and filled out, and 'equal opportunity employer signs posted everywhere. I basically told him where he could take his threats. Then he gave us an entire line of excusses. The locomotive in question was parked in a relatively secluded area on a back siding (actually directly next to the local 'railroad police office'). No chance of anyone getting hurt, especially with an escourt. It was very clear of our intentions, and vandalizing was NOT on the list.
Gone are the 'friendly railorads'.
Don't believe any of UP's supposed efforts to maintain history. The ONLY history they want to preserve is their own. The Daylight steam engine (#4449), last I heard, is no longer allowed to run on the old SP (now owned by UP) rails. Only UP stuff can run on those rails now.
The only way railroad history can be preseved is through the efforts of rail fans.
Railroad police officers have huge territory to cover and will focus their attention on major facilities as opposed long stretches of RoW. Their cars and uniforms look much like that of any other police agency. Unless you were looking closely at door markings and shoulder flashes, they really wouldn't stand out specifically as RR Police.
And of course, the stealth variety:
Contrary to Nitro's belief, a railfan on RR property IS a liability. Don't want to get hasseled, don't trespass. A RR Officer's job is to protect the interests of the company. Don't fault them for doing their job.
Personally, I've never seen the police. However, last week, while trying to take pictures from a platform, a PUBLIC LOCATION, I was told by a woman who claimed to be an employee that it was illegal, and I was asked to leave. She said something about the cops, but idk.
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Railroad police around here come in marked and unmarked SUVs/crown vics. There are just so few officers and so many miles of track, you don't see them much. The officers I have had to deal with have not been over-zealous at all; they are just doing their job.
The following is a reply to Nitro FC:
Sir, the railroads exist to make a profit for their shareholders. Period. Anything extra is just that. Stop crying about the SP... they are gone - get over it. Same thing with the tunnels and other "modernization". Time marches on.
Maybe you haven't seen railfans acting like complete idiots, but I have. Standing places where they shouldn't be to get a photo, and you know they will be the first ones to sue if they trip over their own two feet while on RR property. They also are the ones that tend to walk off with pieces of RR property. It's amazing how many engines are "sans builders plates". Laws are laws and a railroad can not discriminate when they enforce them. A trespasser is a trespasser, whether he is a photographer or a vandal.
As far as going into the office and asking to take photos of an engine? You know how BUSY these yard offices can be? Don't you think the powers to be had some more important matters at hand that allowing you to get a photo of a lousy, run of the mill engine? Did you even have the appropriate PPE with you in case you got permission? Describing a renumbering block as a degradation speaks volumes about your maturity. And you seek preferential treatment from these folks? hah.
Railroads were never officially friendly. But a blind eye was turned more often. Not in today's litigious society. Those railroad workers are covering their own rear ends. And the last thing they need is for a railfan to be somewhere they shouldn't be. That just creates another distraction, and distractions can lead to very bad things.
History shouldn't be forgotten, but you can't live in the past either.
The opinions expressed here represent my own and not those of my employer, any other railroad, company, or person.
In Re: Nitro
Sir, your hate, and I use that word selectively, for Union Pacific, taints what you post. Hardly objective and factually lacking. To begin with, UP does not have blank applications in yard offices. I have not seen one in the 14 years and 17 offices worked.
Next, current policy is that no trespassing signs are posted at all points of access. If not, they should have been. It is because they are, private property. Security on the railroads today are a result of increasing theft, damage, and trespasser injuries. You think the Law Departments in Omaha or Ft. Worth publishes these policies without good cause? Do you suggest they should consult you before hand to get your personal approval?
Finally, as Zugman clearly stated, they are not out there to please the railphans. Collectively, the railroads are for-profit businesses. If a carrier decides to expand capacity because of business needs, it is their prerogative. And I might add, they have a track record of making a profit and expanded their business. I doubt you can claim the same Nitro.
nitro FC Don't believe any of UP's supposed efforts to maintain history. The ONLY history they want to preserve is their own.
Don't believe any of UP's supposed efforts to maintain history. The ONLY history they want to preserve is their own.
I see. This is why the thousands of new cars they have purchased or leased have the reporting marks of CHTT or CMO? This is why the old SP equipment I have seen has reverted to the SP reporting marks from GVSR?
The railroad is owned by the Union Pacific. Which image do you think they would put up for public consumption? A bankrupt broken down old railroad (SP), or one that is a flurishing(UP)?
Its generally true that RR Police have a large area to cover, but normally spend most of their time in busy yards or terminals. That's where most of the trespassing and thefts occur. They may make it out to the rurals areas at irregular intervals. In many places the police car you might see may come in the form of the local police, sheriff or the state police/highway patrol. The larger railroads for many years have requested that the local law enforcement agencies assist them with enforcing trespassing violations in their areas. This is by no means uniform along the lines, but is true in some areas. The local law enforcement agencies can take law enforcement action on RR property as well as the surrounding public property (provided that some type of violation is observed on the public property). That would not preclude an officer to stop to talk to anyone to see what they might be up to, whether a violation was observed or not. Since 9/11 the railroads have worked harder to get the local authorities involved.
In CA, I have heard the UP RRPD will be partnering with the CA Highway Patrol for radio communication. It would not be a stretch that this will get the CHP officers more involved in assisting the railroad officers.
ns3010 Personally, I've never seen the police. However, last week, while trying to take pictures from a platform, a PUBLIC LOCATION, I was told by a woman who claimed to be an employee that it was illegal, and I was asked to leave. She said something about the cops, but idk.
These folks count on you to not know your legal rights. There's no such law.
Midnight Railroaderns3010 Personally, I've never seen the police. However, last week, while trying to take pictures from a platform, a PUBLIC LOCATION, I was told by a woman who claimed to be an employee that it was illegal, and I was asked to leave. She said something about the cops, but idk.These folks count on you to not know your legal rights. There's no such law.
Something that railfans should keep in mind before they start citing their rights and whatnot is the distinction between public property and public access property. Public property are the places that are owned by the state. Streets, government buildings, parks etc. However, many locations that the public has access to, are in fact private property. Good examples are parking lots. While it may be open to the public, the parking lot is still owned by Wal Mart and thus you have to play by Wal Mart's rules. If Wal Mart says that there is to be no photography on their property, they have the right to ask you to leave if you are taking pictures. If you refuse to leave once asked, then you are trespassing and can be subject to arrest. Railroad platforms also fall into this category.
In my experience, people who run off at the mouth about knowing their rights etc, usually only think they know their rights.
Food for thought.
Also can someone tell me how would beeing a railroad Police officer is more dangerouse then beeing say Chicago Police or NYPD?
wilmette2210Also can someone tell me how would beeing a railroad Police officer is more dangerouse then beeing say Chicago Police or NYPD?