Anyone heard of "TT" scale?

[Anonymous]

it means TableTop scale.

[thorneoh]

QUOTE: Originally posted by puffie40

Okay. Here is a updated scale chart:

G -- ?
O -- 1:48
S -- 1:65
OO--1:76
HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

As you can see, all I need are the scale numbers for G and O. I'll just edit this message when I get 'em [;)]

I'm glad to see that there are some Hardcore TT scalelers here! By the way, what do the stock couplers look like? Are they simular to HO's hornhooks, or are they like N's little knuckle hooks?

Chris,

Please note that the scale of 1:65 for S is incorrect. 1:64 is correct for S. Since you opened up this can of worms, here is a more complete list of scales above and below TT.[;)][;)]

Common Name -- Proportion -- Gauge

V -- 1:8 -- 7.25”
Mn2 -- 1:13.7 --45mm
Dn30 -- 1:16 -- 45mm
En3 -- 1:19.2 -- 45mm
Fm -- 1:20.3 -- 45mm
IIm (G) -- 1:22.5 -- 45mm
Hn42 -- 1:24 -- 45mm
A -- 1:29 -- 45mm
I -- 1:32 -- 45mm
0 -- 1:43.5 -- 32mm
Q -- 1:45 -- 32mm
O -- 1:48 -- 1.25”
S -- 1:64 -- 7/8”
OO -- 1:76 -- 16.5mm
J16.5 -- 1:80 -- 16.5mm
HO -- 1:87 -- 16.5mm
TT3 -- 1:101.6 -- 12mm
TT -- 1:120 -- 12mm
N (UK) -- 1:148 -- 9mm
Nj -- 1:150 -- 9mm
OOO -- 1:152.4 -- 9mm
N -- 1:160 -- 9mm
Z -- 1:220 -- 6.5mm
TTT -- 1:240 -- 6mm
HZ -- 1:440 -- 3.25mm
ZZ -- 1:480 -- 1/8”
ZZZ -- 1:720 -- 2mm
TY -- 1:900 -- 1.6mm

Ciao,
Jim T.

[RhB_HJ]

As mentioned Tillig still does TT,
Rokal used to be a big mfg, as was Berliner TTBahnen, Röwa used to make some TT as well. And there were several small mfgs that did specialty stuff in TT.

[Anonymous]

TTSMR

TT Scale Model Railroads (TTSMR) is a very active group of over 200 TT modeless who have reaped the benefits from every one else NOT KNOWING about TT scale!!!

And now you guys have let the cat out of the bag !!!

TT scale is 1/120 scale or 1/10 of an inch to the foot. The British equivalent is TT-3 at 1/120 scale. Most popularized by Triang in England.

Originally not a scratch builders scale, it has become one as well as a collectors scale. TT scale trains, especially locomotives are beginning to bring high dollars on eBay and in private trades. There are also several cottage industries with in the TT community producing TT scale items.

If you join in on TT scale, you wont be disappointed.

Hal Joyce invented Table Top (TT) scale with the idea of producing trains small enough to make a layout in a suitcase. Development began in 1941 but was interrupted by World War II. In 1945, Mr. Joyce formed H.P. Products, Co. He modeled in 1/10 scale (1:120) which was common to US engineering at the time.

TT scale model trains were designed, engineered, manufactured and distributed by H.P. Products, Co. to every corner of the world. By the early 1950's H.P. Products, Co. manufactured more than 20 different powered locomotives for the TT hobbyist. Both kits and assembled models, from the 0-6-0 switch engine to a 2-8-8-2 Big Boy and a pair of EMD E7 diesels, provided motive power to haul a large variety of rolling stock. Small 12vdc motors, developed for the US government’s war, effort made these small-scale locomotives possible.

Hal Joyce actively encouraged other manufacturers to produce TT scale products. Kemtron, Lindsay, Gandy Dancer, Star-Line, Jewel and Craftsman joined the TT bandwagon providing additional rolling stock and locomotives. Atlas, Gem and H.P. Products, Co. manufactured TT track. Numerous other companies produced structures, roadbed and detail parts.

TT scale became very popular in the 1950's. As smaller scales and ready-to-run popularity increased, TT waned and manufacturers phased out their TT products. The H.P. Products, CO. line was sold in 1969.

Several dedicated TT enthusiasts helped preserve TT scale and today TT scale popularity is on the rise! Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TTSMR and you will find our previously hidden, TOP SECRET group! You will find links to British and German TT scale sites there also.

Don
Creator
Moderator
TTSMR

[Anonymous]

Although often described as "Dead", TT wont lie down! In Europe, the German Tillig Co make some good German models in 1/120 scale. In UK where the scale is 1/100, the 3mm Society is about 900 strong now produces its own kits. In the US, TT is small but determined. Most depend on the old HP models of the 1950's. but new models do come out mostly in kit form. In 1999 Lionel brought out diecast, push-along models in 1/120 scale of which motorising kits for F3 & GP9 work very well. more are under way. I live in the UK, but now model American TT with some other Brits. What must be remembered is that TT is a scratch builder's scale.
John Fisher

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by BR60103
I've always felt that a reduction of less than 50% from one scale to the next won't catch on. That's why after O, the next smaller scale (that sold) was HO and after HO was N.

...except that H0 is only 45% smaller than American 0, and N is only 44% smaller than H0......and 0 should have never caught on because it's only 33% smaller than #1 scale...[:0]
Please don't take offense, I'm only joking, David....[;)][;)]
Happy New Year
Mike[:D]

[RhB_HJ]

OOOOPS forgot,

NMRA in their unlimited wisdom has a proposal out for new scale designations http://www.nmra.org/standards/pfc/PFC_Standards.html

have a look, be prepared for some hard slugging to compare old to new and for some head scratching.

I've been dealing with standards since I was 16 (that's 42 years ago) and what NMRA proposes has me wondering just how they arrive at "logical" conclusions and solutions.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by puffie40

Okay. Here is a updated scale chart:

G -- ?
O -- ?
S -- 1:65
OO--1:76
HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

As you can see, all I need are the scale numbers for G and O. I'll just edit this message when I get 'em [;)]

I'm glad to see that there are some Hardcore TT scalelers here! By the way, what do the stock couplers look like? Are they simular to HO's hornhooks, or are they like N's little knuckle hooks?

Chris,

Nice can of worms you opened[:D][:D]

OK let me put it this way "There is no G Scale!"

O scale is 1:48 in NorthAmerica (also called 1/4" to the foot) the track gauge is 32mm. Of course if you devide 1435 by 48 you get 29.89mm.Soooooooo the NorthAmerican scale is out by about 6.5%
O scale in Europe is either 1:45 (which is just about smack on for 32mm track {31.88}) or 1:43 (which is 4.3% off the mark)

The next larger Scale to O is 1 which runs on 45mm track gauge and the scale is 1:32 ( just about spot on)

Then comes 2 which is 1:22.5 and runs on 64mm track (this is off the mark by 0.34%)
Also in 2 you have 2m which runs on 45mm track (scale is out by 1.25%) The "m" stands for "Meter gauge"

Now we come to the most flexible "scale" of all, namely "G". I sarcastically refer to "G" as "Gummi", the German word for rubber. I actually wrote an op-ed piece for a German Gardenrailway magazine on exactly that subject.

G can be anything between approx. 1:21 and 1:30; and it is just about anything, too.
Now luckily some of the mfgs have settled on 1:29 as the de facto scale for NorthAmerican Standard gauge equipment. But even then you get variations. The best part on this whole mess is that some mfgs happily apply one scale for the length, a second scale for the width and a third one for the height.
The motto being: "We want it to look good!".
And being as it runs in the garden they are trying to tell us (the scale model railroaders) that we don't have to scale plants either.
So some of us take aim at the various mfgs whenever the chance presents itself, we run our own fora where we try to promote the scale idea, there are IGs (Interest Groups) that promote the scale idea for Large scale i.e. 1:13.7; 1:20.3 and 1:22.5. They all run on 45mm track gauge, but they have different scale that represent a real world ratio. 1:20.3 represents 3 foot gauge equipment running on 45mm track.

BTW TT scale uses 12mm track gauge, the same track gauge that is used for HOm.

Happy New Year everyone!

[Anonymous]

Okay. Here is a updated scale chart:

G -- ?
O -- 1:48
S -- 1:65
OO--1:76
HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

As you can see, all I need are the scale numbers for G and O. I'll just edit this message when I get 'em [;)]

I'm glad to see that there are some Hardcore TT scalelers here! By the way, what do the stock couplers look like? Are they simular to HO's hornhooks, or are they like N's little knuckle hooks?

[Anonymous]

I am another TT Scale modeler, in this scale for 45 years. It is a great scale as long as you can scratch build and modify stuff. If you want only shake the box kits it is probably not for you. The lack of newer locomotives is a problem but the GP-9's and F-3's that Lionel made in '99 are great now that we have someone making mechanisms for them. Many of us use N scale mechanisms for 3ft 6inch Narrow Gauge. I just built an EMD G12 from a kit made in New Zealand. It has a Life Like SD-7 N Scale mechanism under it. A neat little loco. Check out our yahoo group TTSMR, you'll find lots of help in TT there.
Regards, Chris

[areibel]

I model in TT scale. Check out www.TTscale.com! It is the only American scale, it was started by Mr. Joyce in the 40's as stated earlier. And unfortunately there aren't a lot of choices for us now days- we have to do it ourselves! RTR is for sissies!
I converted from HO about three years ago, didn't have room for any size of an HO layout. And not to offend every N scaler, but it is too small for me. I did a little digging, found the TT scale website and the TTscale Yahoo group, I was hooked. A great bunch of guys!
We have flextrack and switches, some beautiful resin car kits from a few dedicated members, almost everything except modern locomotives. Lionel made some die cast TT scale locomotives in the late 90's, and powered chassis kits are available for the GP9 and F3, but that's about as modern as we have right now. Steam locomotives are either original HP's or modified European ones. I just wi***hat one of the manufacturers that decided HO needs yet another F unit or UP Challenger would take a look- I'd love to have a plain ole GP 35, SD45, etc..

[Supermicha]

TT was born in the USA in the 1940´s, called Table-Top, because it was the scale, which was small enough to operate just on a small table. (n-scale didn´t exist at this time). Today its a popoluar scale in germany, the third after ho and n-scale. TT was very popular in east germany, i had an layout for more than 10 years. today, the biggest producer is tillig (www.tillig.com) from sebnitz near dresden in eastern germany. Tillig has over 150 different locos in his program, and more than 200 cars. I think that is more then some ho company has. I also know a small group of people which make some american stuff in this scale, but like a hobby. in the 60´s, rokal from western germany also made us-stuff like some f-units and passenger cars, but the company got bankrupcy later. its a nice scale. not as big as ho-scale, but big enough to ride long trains on a small layout and have more details like on n-scale.

micha

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by puffie40

Okay. Thanks for all the info, guys!

You know, I was just joking when I suggested it stood for "Tiny train" I didn't know it was "Table top"[:D][(-D][:D]

So, a scale chart would go somthing like this:

HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

Would there be any unknown scales (Above and under HO) The ones I have heard of would be G,O and S Scale.

There's OO scale at 1:76. It has a very small following in the U.S. but is very popular (maybe more than HO) in England where they use it with HO track.. Years ago there were a number of manufacturers who made OO in this country.
#1 scale is 1:32. The G track is actually #1 standard gauge track. There is some support for this scale, but tends to be pricey.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

Okay. Thanks for all the info, guys!

You know, I was just joking when I suggested it stood for "Tiny train" I didn't know it was "Table top"[:D][(-D][:D]

So, a scale chart would go somthing like this:

HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

Would there be any unknown scales (Above and under HO) The ones I have heard of would be G,O and S Scale.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: For timing, the first commercial electric N scale was about 1962. It was designated OOO, made by Lone Star in the U.K. and called "treble o electric". Prior to that, they had produced cast metal push along trains.

Hmm I had some of the Lone Star 000 push alongs but they didn't hold my interest for long, that was '56 '57. I had a Gresley A4 Pacific and lusted after the 'motorised' Hornby 00 version which I soon proudly owned and never Lone Star'd again

[BR60103]

For timing, the first commercial electric N scale was about 1962. It was designated OOO, made by Lone Star in the U.K. and called "treble o electric". Prior to that, they had produced cast metal push along trains.
I went to the Toronto importer of TT gauge when I was 12 and was discouraged from trying to go into it (from Lionel); I didn't even get a boxcar kit to try.
I've always felt that a reduction of less than 50% from one scale to the next won't catch on. That's why after O, the next smaller scale (that sold) was HO and after HO was N.

[ddechamp71]

I believe that about the availability of stuff, rolling stock and locos, TT is even worse than Z scale!
Dominique, Zscaler

[ddechamp71]

I believe that about the availability of stuff, rolling stock and locos, TT is even worse than Z scale!
Dominique, Zscaler

[cp1057]

I saw TT scale demonstrated at a train show about 5 or 6 years ago. It seemed like there wasn't a lot of variety available, it was just a train set and that was it. I haven't seen it displayed any time since.

If it was done right it would be a good scale to model in, but the standard scales are pretty much carved in stone.

Charles
Hillsburgh Ontario

[AggroJones]

I heard of TT scale. This size is ideal to me. Cause HO may be concidered small to some men, but to me it is plenty large. TT is not extremely spread like HO, so I'm in HO.

[IRONROOSTER]

B.T.S. has some structure kits at http://www.btsrr.com/btstt.htm. S scale did better because American Flyer used that scale after WWII which gave it a tremendous boost. That momentum is probably what kept it alive into the 80's when American Models gave it a major revival boost. The two major manufacturers American Models and S Helper's Showcase line sell to both the scale and the Tinplate/HiRail with only the couplers and wheels being different (S Helper actually installs the tinplate wheels and provides the scale ones in the package, AM packages two versions). Actually I think the HiRailers might be in the majority, but those of us on the scale side benefit. TT never got that initial boost. And today I doubt that there are enough TTers for any major manufacturer to get in now.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

Just to add a little confusion... [;)], I have come across information on TTrak modules. These are not for TT scale, they are actually HO, but designed to sit on a table top instead of having legs like standard modules.

Andrew

TTRAK modules are N scale
Official web site
http://www.t-trak.org/

Oops [:I]

See, I told you I could add to the confusion [;)][:D]

Thanks for the correct info.

Andrew

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

Just to add a little confusion... [;)], I have come across information on TTrak modules. These are not for TT scale, they are actually HO, but designed to sit on a table top instead of having legs like standard modules.

Andrew

TTRAK modules are N scale
Official web site
http://www.t-trak.org/

[jrbarney]

Chris,
If memory serves, one of the biggest proponents of TT in the United States was a guy named Hal Joyce. His company was called HP Products and offered a fairly broad line. Levon Kemalyan's Kemtron/Precision Scale also offered some lost wax car kits and parts and locomotive kits powered with Lindsay motors. Arno Rinck, proprietor of Eastern Model Railroad took over the HP line after he moved his business from Hasbrouck Heights, NJ, to Flathead Lake, Montana in the mid-1960s.
Bob

[ndbprr]

It dates back to the forties and was pretty much a scratch builders gauge. I think age has a way of convincing us that trains weren't meant to be small when you can no longer get them in focus. If I didn't have a fortune invested in HO I would be considering S or O at this point. I can't imagine what the N people are going to do when they can't get them in focus any more.

[cacole]

As several people have already mentioned, TT stands for "Table Top," and originated in Europe; possibly even before N scale. I remember hearing of TT scale back in the early 1960s. It was derisively referred to as meaning "Too Tiny" by HO and O scalers. Due to the fact that it is a minority scale in the United States, items are likely to be hard to find and very expensive. In all my years of model railroading, I have only seen one TT scale train, and the amount of detail on it was nothing compared to today's N scale products.

[Anonymous]

here in the UK (due to differences in loading gauge) TT scale was 1:100. The absolutly perfect scale!!

Who needs a scale ruler when you can use a normal ruler?

neil

[Anonymous]

Just to add a little confusion... [;)], I have come across information on TTrak modules. These are not for TT scale, they are actually HO, but designed to sit on a table top instead of having legs like standard modules.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

Tri-ang tried to interest UK modellers in TT back in the 50s and 60s, there's still a few people using TT and the 3mm Society has been formed by them. TT is still available in mainland Europe - Germany seems to be a major production centre for it.