Anyone heard of "TT" scale?

[Anonymous]

I was reading a book on model railroading (Copyright 1968) and I noticed the in the scale chart "TT Scale"

This had got me wondering about it. Does "TT" Mean "Tiny-train" [:o)] (It's right below HO) Is it another reference to N Scale? ( It's 1/120 Compared to HO's 1/87)

[Anonymous]

Hello Chris,

I had a Table Top scale layout many years ago in England. Mine was made by Trix.

[Anonymous]

N-scale is 1:160 proportion, so TT at 1:120 is midway between HO and N. I have never seen any TT equipment or track, though it seems like it would be a rather ideal scale to work in, if it had the variety and availability if its larger and smaller siblings.

[Anonymous]

TT's advantage is that you can do with scenery what S scalers do with rolling stock but with less help from the MR manufacturers. I liked it because I could get so much onto my layout board compared to the 00 I had before. Of course I was just into my teenage years so I have no idea what happened to it all.

[Anonymous]

TT stands for TableTop. For a history and information on TT, try http://www.ttscale.com/w-home.htm. There's also a yahoo group, TTSMR.

I first saw TT in Germany a few years ago, and most TT equipment is from Europe. It started in the U.S., though, as 1/120th scale works out to one inch equals 10 feet, a common engineering scale at one time. It's easy to work out dimensions, as a 40 foot boxcar will be 4 inches long. You can get more layout than with HO but it's not so hard to see the details, as in N.

Why isn't it more popular? It's a tweener, like S--it's too close to HO and N. I think it's an ideal scale, too, and I'd like to do more with it as my skills improve. One of these days...

Gary

[Anonymous]

Some one tried resurrecting TT scale in North America. If you want a TT train set, just contact Bill at www.central-hobbies.com a local Vancouver, BC store.

The unfortunate thing with this company that brought out TT was that it chose an engine that was small rather than taking advantage of the scales visual presence. So if you see the TT train set I am talking about, you won't be impressed as it isn't that big.

If it had been me and it was steam, I would have come out with one of the larger non-articulated steam engines, or if contemporary, can you imagine an SD90 in TT, I bet it would look great. TT is a market that has stolen defeat from the jaws of victory; which is too bad because there are many who would have preferred TT over N, me being one of them.

[douginut]

TT means Table Top, is an "also ran" in North America being at 1/120 between N's 1/160 and HO's 1/87. As I remember TT Berliner Bahnen made some nice Eastern European/Soviet Bloc railroads. I think that Piko made some too. I remember a big article in Popular Mechanics about it from the mid fifties mentioning that it used motors from HO locomotives and they were great runners.

Doug,in Utah

[Anonymous]

Tri-ang tried to interest UK modellers in TT back in the 50s and 60s, there's still a few people using TT and the 3mm Society has been formed by them. TT is still available in mainland Europe - Germany seems to be a major production centre for it.

[Anonymous]

Just to add a little confusion... [;)], I have come across information on TTrak modules. These are not for TT scale, they are actually HO, but designed to sit on a table top instead of having legs like standard modules.

Andrew

[Anonymous]

here in the UK (due to differences in loading gauge) TT scale was 1:100. The absolutly perfect scale!!

Who needs a scale ruler when you can use a normal ruler?

neil

[cacole]

As several people have already mentioned, TT stands for "Table Top," and originated in Europe; possibly even before N scale. I remember hearing of TT scale back in the early 1960s. It was derisively referred to as meaning "Too Tiny" by HO and O scalers. Due to the fact that it is a minority scale in the United States, items are likely to be hard to find and very expensive. In all my years of model railroading, I have only seen one TT scale train, and the amount of detail on it was nothing compared to today's N scale products.

[ndbprr]

It dates back to the forties and was pretty much a scratch builders gauge. I think age has a way of convincing us that trains weren't meant to be small when you can no longer get them in focus. If I didn't have a fortune invested in HO I would be considering S or O at this point. I can't imagine what the N people are going to do when they can't get them in focus any more.

[jrbarney]

Chris,
If memory serves, one of the biggest proponents of TT in the United States was a guy named Hal Joyce. His company was called HP Products and offered a fairly broad line. Levon Kemalyan's Kemtron/Precision Scale also offered some lost wax car kits and parts and locomotive kits powered with Lindsay motors. Arno Rinck, proprietor of Eastern Model Railroad took over the HP line after he moved his business from Hasbrouck Heights, NJ, to Flathead Lake, Montana in the mid-1960s.
Bob

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

Just to add a little confusion... [;)], I have come across information on TTrak modules. These are not for TT scale, they are actually HO, but designed to sit on a table top instead of having legs like standard modules.

Andrew

TTRAK modules are N scale
Official web site
http://www.t-trak.org/

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DSchmitt

QUOTE: Originally posted by masonjar

Just to add a little confusion... [;)], I have come across information on TTrak modules. These are not for TT scale, they are actually HO, but designed to sit on a table top instead of having legs like standard modules.

Andrew

TTRAK modules are N scale
Official web site
http://www.t-trak.org/

Oops [:I]

See, I told you I could add to the confusion [;)][:D]

Thanks for the correct info.

Andrew

[IRONROOSTER]

B.T.S. has some structure kits at http://www.btsrr.com/btstt.htm. S scale did better because American Flyer used that scale after WWII which gave it a tremendous boost. That momentum is probably what kept it alive into the 80's when American Models gave it a major revival boost. The two major manufacturers American Models and S Helper's Showcase line sell to both the scale and the Tinplate/HiRail with only the couplers and wheels being different (S Helper actually installs the tinplate wheels and provides the scale ones in the package, AM packages two versions). Actually I think the HiRailers might be in the majority, but those of us on the scale side benefit. TT never got that initial boost. And today I doubt that there are enough TTers for any major manufacturer to get in now.
Enjoy
Paul

[AggroJones]

I heard of TT scale. This size is ideal to me. Cause HO may be concidered small to some men, but to me it is plenty large. TT is not extremely spread like HO, so I'm in HO.

[cp1057]

I saw TT scale demonstrated at a train show about 5 or 6 years ago. It seemed like there wasn't a lot of variety available, it was just a train set and that was it. I haven't seen it displayed any time since.

If it was done right it would be a good scale to model in, but the standard scales are pretty much carved in stone.

Charles
Hillsburgh Ontario

[ddechamp71]

I believe that about the availability of stuff, rolling stock and locos, TT is even worse than Z scale!
Dominique, Zscaler

[ddechamp71]

I believe that about the availability of stuff, rolling stock and locos, TT is even worse than Z scale!
Dominique, Zscaler

[BR60103]

For timing, the first commercial electric N scale was about 1962. It was designated OOO, made by Lone Star in the U.K. and called "treble o electric". Prior to that, they had produced cast metal push along trains.
I went to the Toronto importer of TT gauge when I was 12 and was discouraged from trying to go into it (from Lionel); I didn't even get a boxcar kit to try.
I've always felt that a reduction of less than 50% from one scale to the next won't catch on. That's why after O, the next smaller scale (that sold) was HO and after HO was N.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: For timing, the first commercial electric N scale was about 1962. It was designated OOO, made by Lone Star in the U.K. and called "treble o electric". Prior to that, they had produced cast metal push along trains.

Hmm I had some of the Lone Star 000 push alongs but they didn't hold my interest for long, that was '56 '57. I had a Gresley A4 Pacific and lusted after the 'motorised' Hornby 00 version which I soon proudly owned and never Lone Star'd again

[Anonymous]

Okay. Thanks for all the info, guys!

You know, I was just joking when I suggested it stood for "Tiny train" I didn't know it was "Table top"[:D][(-D][:D]

So, a scale chart would go somthing like this:

HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

Would there be any unknown scales (Above and under HO) The ones I have heard of would be G,O and S Scale.

[IRONROOSTER]

QUOTE: Originally posted by puffie40

Okay. Thanks for all the info, guys!

You know, I was just joking when I suggested it stood for "Tiny train" I didn't know it was "Table top"[:D][(-D][:D]

So, a scale chart would go somthing like this:

HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

Would there be any unknown scales (Above and under HO) The ones I have heard of would be G,O and S Scale.

There's OO scale at 1:76. It has a very small following in the U.S. but is very popular (maybe more than HO) in England where they use it with HO track.. Years ago there were a number of manufacturers who made OO in this country.
#1 scale is 1:32. The G track is actually #1 standard gauge track. There is some support for this scale, but tends to be pricey.
Enjoy
Paul

[Supermicha]

TT was born in the USA in the 1940´s, called Table-Top, because it was the scale, which was small enough to operate just on a small table. (n-scale didn´t exist at this time). Today its a popoluar scale in germany, the third after ho and n-scale. TT was very popular in east germany, i had an layout for more than 10 years. today, the biggest producer is tillig (www.tillig.com) from sebnitz near dresden in eastern germany. Tillig has over 150 different locos in his program, and more than 200 cars. I think that is more then some ho company has. I also know a small group of people which make some american stuff in this scale, but like a hobby. in the 60´s, rokal from western germany also made us-stuff like some f-units and passenger cars, but the company got bankrupcy later. its a nice scale. not as big as ho-scale, but big enough to ride long trains on a small layout and have more details like on n-scale.

micha

[areibel]

I model in TT scale. Check out www.TTscale.com! It is the only American scale, it was started by Mr. Joyce in the 40's as stated earlier. And unfortunately there aren't a lot of choices for us now days- we have to do it ourselves! RTR is for sissies!
I converted from HO about three years ago, didn't have room for any size of an HO layout. And not to offend every N scaler, but it is too small for me. I did a little digging, found the TT scale website and the TTscale Yahoo group, I was hooked. A great bunch of guys!
We have flextrack and switches, some beautiful resin car kits from a few dedicated members, almost everything except modern locomotives. Lionel made some die cast TT scale locomotives in the late 90's, and powered chassis kits are available for the GP9 and F3, but that's about as modern as we have right now. Steam locomotives are either original HP's or modified European ones. I just wi***hat one of the manufacturers that decided HO needs yet another F unit or UP Challenger would take a look- I'd love to have a plain ole GP 35, SD45, etc..

[Anonymous]

I am another TT Scale modeler, in this scale for 45 years. It is a great scale as long as you can scratch build and modify stuff. If you want only shake the box kits it is probably not for you. The lack of newer locomotives is a problem but the GP-9's and F-3's that Lionel made in '99 are great now that we have someone making mechanisms for them. Many of us use N scale mechanisms for 3ft 6inch Narrow Gauge. I just built an EMD G12 from a kit made in New Zealand. It has a Life Like SD-7 N Scale mechanism under it. A neat little loco. Check out our yahoo group TTSMR, you'll find lots of help in TT there.
Regards, Chris

[Anonymous]

Okay. Here is a updated scale chart:

G -- ?
O -- 1:48
S -- 1:65
OO--1:76
HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

As you can see, all I need are the scale numbers for G and O. I'll just edit this message when I get 'em [;)]

I'm glad to see that there are some Hardcore TT scalelers here! By the way, what do the stock couplers look like? Are they simular to HO's hornhooks, or are they like N's little knuckle hooks?

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by puffie40

Okay. Here is a updated scale chart:

G -- ?
O -- ?
S -- 1:65
OO--1:76
HO--1:87
TT --1:120
N --1:160
Z --1:220

As you can see, all I need are the scale numbers for G and O. I'll just edit this message when I get 'em [;)]

I'm glad to see that there are some Hardcore TT scalelers here! By the way, what do the stock couplers look like? Are they simular to HO's hornhooks, or are they like N's little knuckle hooks?

Chris,

Nice can of worms you opened[:D][:D]

OK let me put it this way "There is no G Scale!"

O scale is 1:48 in NorthAmerica (also called 1/4" to the foot) the track gauge is 32mm. Of course if you devide 1435 by 48 you get 29.89mm.Soooooooo the NorthAmerican scale is out by about 6.5%
O scale in Europe is either 1:45 (which is just about smack on for 32mm track {31.88}) or 1:43 (which is 4.3% off the mark)

The next larger Scale to O is 1 which runs on 45mm track gauge and the scale is 1:32 ( just about spot on)

Then comes 2 which is 1:22.5 and runs on 64mm track (this is off the mark by 0.34%)
Also in 2 you have 2m which runs on 45mm track (scale is out by 1.25%) The "m" stands for "Meter gauge"

Now we come to the most flexible "scale" of all, namely "G". I sarcastically refer to "G" as "Gummi", the German word for rubber. I actually wrote an op-ed piece for a German Gardenrailway magazine on exactly that subject.

G can be anything between approx. 1:21 and 1:30; and it is just about anything, too.
Now luckily some of the mfgs have settled on 1:29 as the de facto scale for NorthAmerican Standard gauge equipment. But even then you get variations. The best part on this whole mess is that some mfgs happily apply one scale for the length, a second scale for the width and a third one for the height.
The motto being: "We want it to look good!".
And being as it runs in the garden they are trying to tell us (the scale model railroaders) that we don't have to scale plants either.
So some of us take aim at the various mfgs whenever the chance presents itself, we run our own fora where we try to promote the scale idea, there are IGs (Interest Groups) that promote the scale idea for Large scale i.e. 1:13.7; 1:20.3 and 1:22.5. They all run on 45mm track gauge, but they have different scale that represent a real world ratio. 1:20.3 represents 3 foot gauge equipment running on 45mm track.

BTW TT scale uses 12mm track gauge, the same track gauge that is used for HOm.

Happy New Year everyone!

[RhB_HJ]

OOOOPS forgot,

NMRA in their unlimited wisdom has a proposal out for new scale designations http://www.nmra.org/standards/pfc/PFC_Standards.html

have a look, be prepared for some hard slugging to compare old to new and for some head scratching.

I've been dealing with standards since I was 16 (that's 42 years ago) and what NMRA proposes has me wondering just how they arrive at "logical" conclusions and solutions.