For those that say Passenger set-ups are dumb.....

[Anonymous]

I refer you to the following site:

http://www.housatonicrr.com/passops.html

he touches very well on how a fully passenger layout can be just as challenging, if not more so, than regular frieght service.

So for those that think passenger service is boring....I say read on!

Jay.

[Anonymous]

Jay,
I think for those of us into passenger service, most of us grew up with it in one way or another. I can tell you, but don't tell anyone else here that when I first heard that many modellers were into freight trains, I thought they'd lost their rocker. Passenger trains are beautiful, exciting, filled with promise and allure to other parts of the land. In a smaller town, the station starts to come alive an hour before it arrives. Then the grand entrance, people getting off, people getting on, people in uniforms, carts whisking about, maybe a new crew change, heck.. if you lived in Jasper Alberta, maybe a bear to greet the tourists.

Then the sad moment as the train leaves. And maybe the engineer waves at me, and sometimes it is my grandfather. Passengers wave at me, and I back at them. The porter stands in the vestibule, closing up the door and window. And then finally the parlour car pulls past you, until the next time.

In a couple of the CN Sig mags, I have seen pictures of me since I practically lived at the train station in 1956-57.

[Jetrock]

I don't think anyone here says passenger service is "dumb", it's just not most modelers' cup of tea for various reasons--less switching, longer cars (requiring broader curves, etc.) and less visual variety. Personally I like passenger trains (especially riding them) and trolleys (partially because there is a light rail system in my town that I have ridden for many years, and used to be a trolley system) but don't have room for much in their way on my current layout.

Eventually I'll get around to the trolley stuff--until then, I'll still do "passenger service" in the form of fantrips on my route (which happened a lot) both via older passenger equipment being pulled by diesels and gas motor cars (I really want to find a model of NCB 21, the "Yerington", or a close facsimile thereof I can kitbash--I can get a close-up look at the real thing at a local railroad museum!)

I like watching passenger trains too--we get plenty of both on the UP/Amtrak mainline through town.

[FThunder11]

I have the Amtrak northeast corridor modeled and i love passenger the're the best!!

[Anonymous]

Ok, maybe i should have used Boring in place of Dumb. ;p

There's plenty off switching as well as a wide variety of visuals you can do with a Passenger than you can with a Frieght, i mean hiow any time can you model a Frieght yard? seems that's all anyone models and the line between two points always seems to be an industrial setting. at least with Passenger service you can model countryside, get lots of pretty greens, yellow, reds as well as farm houses, small towns and other great things.

Jay.

[Anonymous]

Passenger service modeling isn't either 'dumb' or 'boring' to those interested in it as a primary focus of their train empire. Passenger service doesn't much INTEREST me, thus it takes a second seat to freight modeling. I say follow your interest ....its YOUR railroad.

[ndbprr]

I enjoy passenger service but it has some problems competing with freight:
1. Only at major terminals was any make up or reassigning done
2. the exception is dining cars that were often out and back or cities some distance away where a sleeping car or two was set out for the passengers going there
3. the size of model railroads excludes nearly all the operating possibilities
4. if you model a prototype you are bound by the restrcitions and era considerations
In modeling North Philadelphia what should I do other than let them stop and restart. no post office, no sidings, no cut outs, no express, no anything other than a stop for all trains.
Freight on the other hand can be switched at any industry lining the tracks from New York to LA. Seems like a no brainer for most of us.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr
Seems like a no brainer for most of us.

Mostly valid points...so why make the "no-brainer" comment ?

What about those who model old time railroading, like1880-1900 ?
Lots of passenger action...a lot of short passenger cars, and mixed train stuff too.
Also, interurbans & gas-electrics...passenger service primarily, and really interesting.
Fit on a relatively small layout too.
regards
Mike[:)]

[Anonymous]

Hmm..someone didn't read the article i can tell. ;)

Go Read!

Jay

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robmik

QUOTE: Originally posted by ndbprr
Seems like a no brainer for most of us.

Mostly valid points...so why make the "no-brainer" comment ?

What about those who model old time railroading, like1880-1900 ?
Lots of passenger action...a lot of short passenger cars, and mixed train stuff too.
Also, interurbans & gas-electrics...passenger service primarily, and really interesting.
Fit on a relatively small layout too.
regards
Mike[:)]

I agree, what's with the comment, you think you are more intellegent than people that run passenger service too? You already claim you are a better modeler because you model prototype and don't freelance, and think freelancers are hacks. Now you ignor passanger trains because of size and distance restraints? I'm here to tell you that freight service can't be modelled correctly on a layout either due to the same reasons. Most industries wouldn't bother loading a boxcar to move it a 1/4 mile down the rail like they do on your layout. Maybe you need to model model trucking so you can stay in scale. I doubt you could even model a steelmill in true scale in the areas devoted to 99.99% of layouts in z gauge. Not even logging can be done in scale because no body would ever invest in a rail system to move logs a mile, which is about 61 feet in HO. So how long is your prototype freight empire? FRED

[ndbprr]

Not at all and not intended in that manner. What I meant by it was without a major terminal that would justify passenger car movements or changing prototype operations the only logical conclusion based on our space constraints is to model freight because those ops. took place the length of the railroad and are much more easily justifiable and doable. It wasn't a slam at passenger ops. Heck, I'm a guy who runs 24 GG1's and most of them in passenger service. PRR clockers were just 8-12 P70's pulled by a G. No express, no Postal service, no equipment set outs so if I want to operate it has to be freights. And there was certainly no reference to my being a better modeler. The only reference was to IF you model a prototype you can choose to do it faithfully if at all possible. Could I put an engine facility at North Philadelphia station - yep. Could I put a set out track for sleepers and express - yep. Could I change power there and make it a division point - yep. BUT if I do want to model it accurately I can't do that because the PRR never did that. I have come to the conclusion after 30 years that I do want to faithfully attempt to model something and it will be the one actual mile staring at North Philadelphia Station. So 5280' /8 = 660" in HO/12= 55' in actual length. I can do this diagonally accross my basement and have the area behind it for staging. I did not and am not denegrating anyone who chooses differently. I also can not accept responisbility and guilt for reading more into the post then was written, intended or stated. When modeling a prototype railroad and location we are bound by what they did if we are to be as accurate as possible.

[Anonymous]

Don't turn this enjoyable thread into flame warfare. No one is right; its kind of like those who like red wine versus those who like white wine; of course some of us feel that we who like both red and white are the best off. If Billy Bob thinks red wine is great - it is for him. If Billy Bob happens to use an evaluative word you don't like, take the high road and ignore it.

You don't have to have a large city terminal area to make passenger service interesting, especially those in the transition era. A Canadian example will have to suffice. If you modelled Jasper Alberta ( a tourist town) in the 40 and 50's, you would be modelling a divisional point that had lots of action for a small town. In fact, Jasper was and is a railroading and tourist town primarily. Even today about 15% of the passengers get off in Jasper from Vancouver, a large amount when you consider the train is less than 24 hours into its three day journey to Toronto.

Jasper did maintenance and took off and add passenger cars in those days. How do I know? I used to play in them. Divisional points can be busy areas for passenger service, even if it isn't a large city.

But even now in Vancouver when the VIA arrives in the summer, the train backs in, breaks in two and parks on different tracks. During the day, cars will be added or subtracted, either for dead heading purposes, building the train to accept more passengers, or removing cars for storage or servicing. Engines will be added or subtracted for dead heading purposes or increased power needs. Engines can be taken off for servicing.

To model Vancouver passenger well, you only need two buildings - the passenger station and the servicing building. And I think there is a total of about 8 tracks, however I am using three tracks.

[Anonymous]

I like them equally. :)

[Anonymous]

ndprr, I beg to differ with you on the make up and break down of passenger trains only happening in the major cities. I live in Topeka KS where the Santa Fe's major passenger car shops were and are still to this day. I can remember as a little kid watching the Chief, San Francisco Chief and trains 23/24 stopping and the yard swithcher switching the cars in and out of the trains. there were set out cars, business cars and cars being brought in for scheduled maintence and overhauls. The same can be said of the UP in Omaha, the old Rock Island in Silvis. The BNSF still maintains Topeka as their business excursion fleet location. Ch

[Anonymous]

Although it is a work in progress I will have 2 tracks and operate in the transistion era so that I can have both steam and diesel. The inside track spurs to local businesses; truck terminal, lumber co., furniture mfg, and mining co. The outside track has a passenger station and freight terminal. I run both passenger and freight and enjoy both. My primary line is Santa Fe to do the freight pick ups and drop offs. It simulates running the line across northern AZ. Then I have a UP diesel to simulate freight that has been transfered. My passenger train will be Santa Fe and pulled by steam. It runs one lap on the outside then one lap on the inside, I do this 5 times before stopping at the station to drop off and pick up passengers.

Ya gota have imagination to run ops in a fantasy world.

[Anonymous]

Uhh didn't mean to start a riot with this. let's be friendly and read the article :)

Have fun, just trying to show that a Coach yard can be just as fun as a freight yard as well as there being other aspects to Passengers other than people moving.

Some people in Frieght never model a Yard, same with people in Passenger, sometimes just running a train between 2 points and droping off and pick up cars along the way works.

Sometimes you just have to use a little "disbelief of reality" and have fun!

Jay.