Im trying to get an Atlas dash8 40cw and a P2K SD50 to work together in a consist.
Ive gone into motor control config on my NCE pro and set all the parameters the same on both locos including the speed step at 28.
Start volts is 4, full speed is max, mid speed is 50% etc
Their alot better but still not spot on. Obviously differant decoders are in use, the Atlas has QSI sound and the SD50 has a Lenz silver decoder.
Differant drive trains and motors will obviously have an effect.
Is there a way to get them working the same?
Are you trying to MU sound and non sound? If so that won't work due to the higher starting voltage of the sound decoder.
-dekruif
Gary,
With different locos and different decoders it would have been a miracle if the locos had matched with the same CV settings.
The short version is: Pick the loco that is going to lead, then match the other(s) to it. I'm not familiar with your DCC system, but on mine, I set the lead loco at about step one so it is just moving. Then I put the second loco on step one and, in OPS mode, increase the start voltage until it runs at the same speed. Then I do the same for V-mid and V-max. Rarely, I have had to adjust the acceleration and deceleration CVs as well.
This is a 'cave man approach' but it has proved effective for me. I haven't really gotten into the speed table thing yet, though Santa has made that possible with a LocoBuffer.
I have matched all of my F7s to each other with this method. Some have sound and some don't. The same with my ALCO PA/Bs and E8/7s.
You should be able to achieve satisfactory results, most of the time, with just V-start, V-mid and V-max. I have.
Good luck,
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
First step is to set each decoder for the CV2 value that starts its host loco moving on speed step one. That way, no matter what decoder or locos you match up, theoretically, sound or no, you get each loco starting at the same throttle setting.
Next, you have to get each loco to match speeds at a number of key speed steps corresponding to the mid and high ranges that you set in your speed tables. You want each engine matching its MU'd partner all along the speed curve, so you must provide an interpolative set of values to each decoder. This will take some time. Once you have the decoders set so that the locos will keep pace with each other throughout the speed step range that you set for them on a given throttle setting, you can do the MU and they should perform as a unit.
Thats a good point, didnt think of that!
Although both loco's do seem to move at the same time, its later on in the speed range that the sound equipped loco (strangely) seems to run abit faster than the non sound loco!
Will it make any differance if i turn the sound off?
Thanks guys, think ive got enough to go on now for a while
Il give these methods a try!
Gary
Whilst the V-mid/v-max route is quick, it probably won't give you the proper balance through all the speed steps. As has been said already, the only way to do it is to choose the "master" loco speed, and then individually set all your other locos to that, at each individual speed step using CV29, and CVs 67-94 for speed steps 1-28.
It makes life SOOOOO much easier to do this with something to measure speed when moving, and I cannot recommend the Fleischman Tachowagen highly enough - it's towed behind the loco, and gives out speed in scale kph - it is a complete doddle to then speed-curve all of your locos, compared to other methods. Once you know what your "master" loco's speed is at each speed step (ie 18 scale kph at speed step 7), you then tow the Tachowagen behind the next loco and adjust CV 73 (for speed step 7?) until the loco travels at 18 skph. I can now do a full 28-step speed-curve from scratch in less than 30 minutes per loco.
All 25 or so of my locos run at identical speeds through the whole speed range, although they have different decoders - Lenz, Loksound, QSI and Soundtraxx - I can run anything in MU with anything else, steam or diesel, which is great for pushers/lash-ups etc. I have also successfully speed-stepped all the locos of some club colleagues using this method. Note too, that even if a loco is "identical" (ie same manufacturer, same model, same batch) to one you have already speed-curved, it will still benefit from its own speed curve using the method above, as each loco motor is slightly different. Good old DCC.
Is that a class 37 on your ID? Until quite recently, I could still see and hear them rattle by, double-headed, from my house in Laira on weekend, possibly on work trains headed for Cornwall. Splendid beasts. Now all we get is an ongoing selection of identical EMD Class 66 power.
Brian
Plymouth, UK
Brian M wrote: Is that a class 37 on your ID? Until quite recently, I could still see and hear them rattle by, double-headed, from my house in Laira on weekend, possibly on work trains headed for Cornwall. Splendid beasts. Now all we get is an ongoing selection of identical EMD Class 66 power. BrianPlymouth, UK
Hi Brian, Well i'l be dammed! If you look out your window and see orange clad Net rail blokes on the track one of them could well be me! Local team leader (track maintenance)for Network Rail unfortunately
My avatar is a class 40, loved the 37s though although the daily hum drum of working on the railway these days is like watching paint dry compared to what it was like when i started!
Very rare for anything to come along that grabs my attention these days and dont get me started on voyagers.
As for your info above, thanks very much its very helpful but im still trying to get to grips with the cab and finding it alot to take onboard at the moment. If you ever wana earn yourself a few quid..............
All good advice above. Let me add one thing -- what kind of DCC system do you have? If it's one that can be connected to a computer, there's a great way to ease the process -- best of all, it's free! You might have to buy or make a cable for the connection, though.
It's called DecoderPro. You may have seen some references to it in the forums. It's just one part of a whole passel of neat stuff you can do from the JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface) outfit at: http://jmri.sourceforge.net/.
I use it with my NCE PowerPro system and an iMac, but it works with various DCC systems and computer operating systems.
It provides a graphical interface to a raft of different decoders, greatly simplifying the mechanics of setting CVs. It shows sliders, radio buttons, etc. depending on each CV (or bit) for that particular decoder.
It also keeps a Roster of your engines, complete with all of the settings for each decoder. If you should have to reset a decoder (especially a QSI or Tsunami with about a zillion CVs), there's an option to reset them all from the data file on your computer.
Check it out.
dekruif wrote:Are you trying to MU sound and non sound? If so that won't work due to the higher starting voltage of the sound decoder. -dekruif
Sorry, but this is not true.
Granted, it can be difficult, but entirely possible. I'm down to only a couple of non-sound locos, but I consist them with sound units all the time. I did have to mess with speed curves and the forward and reverse trim settings, but haven't had to do a full user-entered speed curve (yet, anyhow). Obviously, this will vary somewhat depending on what CVs your decoders use.
Note that the speeds and acceleration/deceleration rates don't have to match exactly -- like horseshoes, close counts. As mentiioned above, it's usually best to put the faster loco first, so it keeps tension on the couplers, but even that isn't an absolute.
Pondini wrote: All good advice above. Let me add one thing -- what kind of DCC system do you have? If it's one that can be connected to a computer, there's a great way to ease the process -- best of all, it's free! You might have to buy or make a cable for the connection, though.It's called DecoderPro. You may have seen some references to it in the forums. It's just one part of a whole passel of neat stuff you can do from the JMRI (Java Model Railroad Interface) outfit at: http://jmri.sourceforge.net/.I use it with my NCE PowerPro system and an iMac, but it works with various DCC systems and computer operating systems. It provides a graphical interface to a raft of different decoders, greatly simplifying the mechanics of setting CVs. It shows sliders, radio buttons, etc. depending on each CV (or bit) for that particular decoder. It also keeps a Roster of your engines, complete with all of the settings for each decoder. If you should have to reset a decoder (especially a QSI or Tsunami with about a zillion CVs), there's an option to reset them all from the data file on your computer. Check it out.
Sounds good, ive got the same system as yourself. Am i correct in saying that you instal the software, plug your laptop into the comand station and away you go then?
Gary UK wrote:Sounds good, ive got the same system as yourself. Am i correct in saying that you instal the software, plug your laptop into the comand station and away you go then?
Just about, yes. Your command station should have a 9-pin RS-232 receptacle on the front, just above the track connections. You need to connect that to your computer.
You'll need a cable with a male 9-pin plug on one end and whatever will fit your computer at the other. If all it has is USB, you'll need to buy a USB-to-serial adapter for $20 to $50, more or less, depending on your needs. It's all explained on the JMRI site.
And, of course, you have to download and install the software, but that's all explained, too.
Have fun!
Here's some stuff that may be of use from Joe Fugate, I bought a SPROG from www.sprog-dcc.co.uk in the UK to fine tune my Tsunamis and it's much easier to program if you have the panes on the PC to see what's happening. You can follow these guidelines using any dcc system though.
Consisting /speed matching Engines of Different Manufacturers Using DCC/Decoder pro
In most cases, DCC has made it easy to consist engines that could not be run together in analog mode. The following are tips and procedures that I use to allow engines to run together. I make it a habit of setting up all of my freight engines to run at the same speed. I do likewise with my passenger engines. If you use the same type of engine for both, you might want to make them all the same speed.
What Speed? - Which engine do you select as your constant?
Three possible choices are:
1. The slowest engine (top Speed)
2. Your Favourite engine
3. A sound equipped engine
All three can be used and each has advantages and disadvantages. The slowest engine has the advantage of guaranteeing that all other can be consisted. Specialized engines such as shays are usually ignored. If you are partial to a certain manufacturer (ex Stewart), you may want to make that your standard.
A word on engine motors and decoders; Engine motors can be divided into 2 categories. Open frame and can motors. Open frame motors tend to be faster and more subject to speed variation than Can motors. They draw more amperage than most can motors and are a little more difficult to get going at low speed steps. Although cheaper, with a little care and maintenance, they can give many hours of long service. They are commonly found on less expensive engines.
Can motors tend to be much smoother in operation throughout their speed range. They have low current draw and require little maintenance. They are found on newer and better quality engines. If you plan on consisting open frame and can motor engines together, I would recommend using TCS decoders for the open frame motors. Dither, a feature of TCS decoders, does a great job of overcoming the slow speed hang up of open frame motors. I would also select a can motored engine as your constant.
Once you have decided on your constant engine, the following steps should allow you to run engines at the same speed.
1. If the engine is new, it should be run in for an hour or two before setting the speed
2. Warm up both engines and make sure their wheels are clean. 3-5 minutes usually suffices. This will also give you an idea on how close the speeds are for the 2 engines.
3. Make sure CV19 is set to 0 for both engines. Also, make sure your engine is not set for alternate speed steps. If you want to increase the starting voltage on your engine, do it before proceeding to step 4.
4. Make sure the engine you want to match is in your decoder pro roster. Crank up decoder pro and use programming on the main. Call up the engine you wish to speed match from your roster.
5. Make up a normal consist with your constant engine as the lead engine. Do not lash the engines together. 8-10 inches between them is a good start.
6. If you are using a decoder with BEMF, it should be turned off for consisting.
7. Select the speed table screen for the engine called up in DecoderPro.
10. Click on match ends on the speed table. Then write this to the loco.
11. Run the locos. If you have made a good choice on your base engine, the following engine will probably be faster. Reduce the speed step 28 setting; Match ends and write to the engine. Some systems/decoders will allow you to do this on the fly, other will make you stop the engines. Repeat this procedure until the engines speed match. After you do a few you will be able to match an engine faster than you can read this procedure. We have found that this method gives us great speed control and is actually faster to do than using the Vmid and Vmax settings. It also eliminates fooling with forward and reverse trim if you decoder requires it.
12. If your decoder does not support 28 speed step settings you will need to use the method outlined in the other clinic.
Quote from Joe's other postings about using Decoderpro on a PC.
DecoderPro allows you to open up multiple windows on your PC, one for each loco. Then you can bounce back and forth between loco windows, altering decoder speed settings via ops mode programming (aka programming on the main).I put the two locos on a section of track on my layout where there is a long straight stretch with two parallel tracks, then I alter the CV settings of the two locos until I get them to run neck and neck at any speed setting.I start with setting the throttle to 1/4 speed (speed step 7 out of 28) and get the locos to start out the same and run together side by side. Then I go to full speed (speed step 28) and get the locos to run neck and neck. Often, this is all it takes. If the locos run together at speed steps 7 and 28, and the speed curve you've used in DecoderPro has the same contour (straightline, logarithmic, etc.) then the locos will be very closely matched at all the other speed steps.
These links are for those using a Tsunami decoder with a PC linked to their DCC system or a programming unit, ( like the SPROG I use ).
Thanks to Joe Fugate for these:-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmriusers/files/Decoder%20files/SoundTraxx%20decoders/
To find out how to install decoder profile files, see:
http://jmri.sourceforge.net/apps/DecoderPro/FAQ.html
Thanks to the guys on the JMRI forum for these:-
1-
Sign up to Yahoo groups as there is lots of help available on the JMRI stuff.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jmriusers/
2-
These files are only compatible with JMRI 1.7.2 onwards which you can down load from the sourceforge site above, ( see Joes link )
3-
You need both these files. Download (don't display) them in your browser,
put them in the directories under your jmri installation,
Decoder profiles,put it in the "xml/decoders" directory,
<http://jmri.sf.net/xml/decoders/SoundTraxx_Tsu_Steam.xml>
You also need an updated version of the "Comprehensive" programmer, put it in the xml/programmers directory.
<http://jmri.sf.net/xml/programmers/Comprehensive.xml>
4-
Then select "Recreate Decoder Index" from the DecoderPro debug menu.
Now you will be able to play with all 200 and something CV settings either by individual number or using the easier labelled panes which tell you what you are doing.
I had more trouble figuring out what I needed and how to download it than using it.
Hope there's some stuff of interest Paul