QUOTE: CNN Disclaimer This QuickVote is not scientific and reflects the opinions of only those Internet users who have chosen to participate. The results cannot be assumed to represent the opinions of Internet users in general, nor the public as a whole.
Originally posted by vsmith OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? I don't take these polls seriously at all. The amazing thing is that this forum boasts 124,297. registered members. I can probably count on my fingers and toes and maybe someone else's fingers and toes the people(OK and maybe another set of fingers and toes) who actively participate. I have only been active in his hobby for a little over a year. Prior to meeting my boyfriend, I'm going to admit to you hear in writing, that I probably wasn't even aware that model railroading existed as a hobby prior to two years ago. So with limited experience and obviously being a women, I don't for a moment believe that 26% model z scale. The z scale people just did a better job of voting. Numbers can be skewed by the people who vote and BY THOSE WHO DON'T. Even if half of the 124,297 participated or 62,149 are actively acttually lurking around on this forum, only 1738 or 2% actually took the time to vote. I don't read much into these polls because I tend to very much be an independent thinker and don't much follow the crowd. Some of us have had great experiences in clubs and some haven't. Even though my first experience wasn't great, that's not to say that I might not choose to join another in the future. I don't think newcomers will be frightened off model railroading by this poll or that. On the polls and threads posted, people give both points of view. But it is for us to decide which is best for us. It's a very hard thing to post on a forum because you are exposing yourself to verbal tangles with others.This can be very intimidating. I know it was for me. Let's face it, when someone posts on a forum, we can't hear the tone of voice, intonation or see the body language or facial features. But, as I said in another thread somewhere else, what makes American great (and Canada, too) is that we can agree to disagree. I think you are all a bunch of great guys with great opinions and differences of opinions. And I hope we keep exchanging them. Hope everyone has a great Labor Day. I know I will, I'll be laboring at the restaurant. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 3:58 PM Originally posted by vsmith OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? I don't take these polls seriously at all. The amazing thing is that this forum boasts 124,297. registered members. I can probably count on my fingers and toes and maybe someone else's fingers and toes the people(OK and maybe another set of fingers and toes) who actively participate. I have only been active in his hobby for a little over a year. Prior to meeting my boyfriend, I'm going to admit to you hear in writing, that I probably wasn't even aware that model railroading existed as a hobby prior to two years ago. So with limited experience and obviously being a women, I don't for a moment believe that 26% model z scale. The z scale people just did a better job of voting. Numbers can be skewed by the people who vote and BY THOSE WHO DON'T. Even if half of the 124,297 participated or 62,149 are actively acttually lurking around on this forum, only 1738 or 2% actually took the time to vote. I don't read much into these polls because I tend to very much be an independent thinker and don't much follow the crowd. Some of us have had great experiences in clubs and some haven't. Even though my first experience wasn't great, that's not to say that I might not choose to join another in the future. I don't think newcomers will be frightened off model railroading by this poll or that. On the polls and threads posted, people give both points of view. But it is for us to decide which is best for us. It's a very hard thing to post on a forum because you are exposing yourself to verbal tangles with others.This can be very intimidating. I know it was for me. Let's face it, when someone posts on a forum, we can't hear the tone of voice, intonation or see the body language or facial features. But, as I said in another thread somewhere else, what makes American great (and Canada, too) is that we can agree to disagree. I think you are all a bunch of great guys with great opinions and differences of opinions. And I hope we keep exchanging them. Hope everyone has a great Labor Day. I know I will, I'll be laboring at the restaurant. Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:16 AM OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? These polls are designed to offer an OPINION and FOSTER a conversation about the topic. they have NO basis for fact as not everyone who reads the question will respond plus these forums are a very limited slice of the hobbiest out there so of course the results are bogus. What they really do well is to get people to talk about things, like them or not these polls often gather the most replys of any forum topics. I will reply and then give my opinion since my views are often not a part of the poll selections. So guys, Lighten Up! and remember just because someone puts out a poll doesnt mean you have to reply to it...skip it and go to other topics if they bug you that much. I dont want anyone trying to poop on Freedon af Speech (or opinion) here. Have fun with your trains Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:16 AM OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? These polls are designed to offer an OPINION and FOSTER a conversation about the topic. they have NO basis for fact as not everyone who reads the question will respond plus these forums are a very limited slice of the hobbiest out there so of course the results are bogus. What they really do well is to get people to talk about things, like them or not these polls often gather the most replys of any forum topics. I will reply and then give my opinion since my views are often not a part of the poll selections. So guys, Lighten Up! and remember just because someone puts out a poll doesnt mean you have to reply to it...skip it and go to other topics if they bug you that much. I dont want anyone trying to poop on Freedon af Speech (or opinion) here. Have fun with your trains Reply IRONROOSTER Member sinceJune 2003 From: Culpeper, Va 8,199 posts Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, August 31, 2003 7:14 AM Maybe the poll should have a disclaimer to avoid misleading people. I like the polls, especially when they generate interesting responses, but I have to admit that I got a real laugh out ot the best scale poll with Z getting most of the votes. As with all statistics you have to be careful when you don't know how they were generated. A good book on the subject is "How to Lie with Statistic" if you can find it. Part of what makes this hobby so fascinating is that there a lot of choices to be made and ways of doing things. Reading the passionately pro and anti opinions on a subject can help you make your own decisions, but in the end it is your decision. And if it doesn't work for you, do it another way. I have changed scales twice, layout concepts numerous times, building methods too often to count, etc. and I still enjoying seeing ideas and discussions from others. Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply IRONROOSTER Member sinceJune 2003 From: Culpeper, Va 8,199 posts Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, August 31, 2003 7:14 AM Maybe the poll should have a disclaimer to avoid misleading people. I like the polls, especially when they generate interesting responses, but I have to admit that I got a real laugh out ot the best scale poll with Z getting most of the votes. As with all statistics you have to be careful when you don't know how they were generated. A good book on the subject is "How to Lie with Statistic" if you can find it. Part of what makes this hobby so fascinating is that there a lot of choices to be made and ways of doing things. Reading the passionately pro and anti opinions on a subject can help you make your own decisions, but in the end it is your decision. And if it doesn't work for you, do it another way. I have changed scales twice, layout concepts numerous times, building methods too often to count, etc. and I still enjoying seeing ideas and discussions from others. Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:56 AM PS to the above : Rick....I didn't mean Athearn's one and only N scale unit...I was referring to H0. Mike Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:56 AM PS to the above : Rick....I didn't mean Athearn's one and only N scale unit...I was referring to H0. Mike Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:39 AM Fair enough folks. I see there are several here who realize that it's not constructive to intentionally try to mislead beginners in the hobby. That would be those very beginners who are likely to be online more than us geriatrics. As to harmless, one might refer to any internet forum on "best locomotives". I have seen more Athearn-bashing than enough the last couple of years, particularly on another well-known forum. The bashing has often been cruel and vindictive. [:(] However, both reputation , common sense, ( and statistically proven popular opinion ) shows that Athearn still happens to be a GREAT entry-level, or better, locomotive line for beginners. Why try to turn beginners off for all the wrong reasons ?[:(!] For those who like the polls, fine, enjoy the fiction....but I invoke what I commonly refer to as the "Alan Ladd" principle. A person standing on a box to look you in the eye, may be many, many things........and all of them may be admirable things.........but no matter what that person may be, "tall" is not one of them.[:o)] regards Mike Old enough to remember Alan Ladd[:D] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:39 AM Fair enough folks. I see there are several here who realize that it's not constructive to intentionally try to mislead beginners in the hobby. That would be those very beginners who are likely to be online more than us geriatrics. As to harmless, one might refer to any internet forum on "best locomotives". I have seen more Athearn-bashing than enough the last couple of years, particularly on another well-known forum. The bashing has often been cruel and vindictive. [:(] However, both reputation , common sense, ( and statistically proven popular opinion ) shows that Athearn still happens to be a GREAT entry-level, or better, locomotive line for beginners. Why try to turn beginners off for all the wrong reasons ?[:(!] For those who like the polls, fine, enjoy the fiction....but I invoke what I commonly refer to as the "Alan Ladd" principle. A person standing on a box to look you in the eye, may be many, many things........and all of them may be admirable things.........but no matter what that person may be, "tall" is not one of them.[:o)] regards Mike Old enough to remember Alan Ladd[:D] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:14 PM I'm not sure what your question is, but I suspect you are talking about those modelling over thirty years. When I talk about something being skewed, it doesn't mean that one part of the population isn't there, it means the average (mean) has more of one type of group rather than another. Let me ask you this for your survival question on the Island - who is more likely to own a computer, using the internet: a) the 20 to 30 year olds b) the 60 to 70 year olds The correct answer is "a" but that doesn't mean no 60 to 70 year olds don't own computers and use the internet - many of them do, but as a grouping one is more dominant than the other. What the "how long have you been... " poll does do is raise the question of how many new people are coming into the hobby. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:14 PM I'm not sure what your question is, but I suspect you are talking about those modelling over thirty years. When I talk about something being skewed, it doesn't mean that one part of the population isn't there, it means the average (mean) has more of one type of group rather than another. Let me ask you this for your survival question on the Island - who is more likely to own a computer, using the internet: a) the 20 to 30 year olds b) the 60 to 70 year olds The correct answer is "a" but that doesn't mean no 60 to 70 year olds don't own computers and use the internet - many of them do, but as a grouping one is more dominant than the other. What the "how long have you been... " poll does do is raise the question of how many new people are coming into the hobby. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48 Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals. Please explain the "been modeling long" poll! C Tucker Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48 Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals. Please explain the "been modeling long" poll! C Tucker Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 6:57 PM The Z poll aspect was rigged somehow, I'm not sure how, but rigged it was. I enjoy polls in forums even if they are completely accurate as to the general population responses. Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals. I know some of the NMRA types tried to switch to electronic webs for their members but there was a tremendous resistance to it, since so many didn't have computers yet! or weren't using the internet - even though they were signed up on one! But you just need to look to the Atlas forum to see that responses are not reflective of the population. N scale responses out number HO responses; when you consider the ratio of N scaler's to HO'rs this is surprising, but not really. There are more younger people in N scale than in HO, and the younger people are more active on the internet so N scale is strong in the electronic media. Often I do dual posts in the Atlas N and HO forum. It is more common for the N scale thread to garner more posts than the HO thread. This has been true for the past couple of years. But the polls can give me a sense of what people are doing from questions like - how many have staging on their layout - to how many free lance vs prototypical, etc. So I like the polls as long as they aren't dominating the forums. Reply Edit 12 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Originally posted by vsmith OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? I don't take these polls seriously at all. The amazing thing is that this forum boasts 124,297. registered members. I can probably count on my fingers and toes and maybe someone else's fingers and toes the people(OK and maybe another set of fingers and toes) who actively participate. I have only been active in his hobby for a little over a year. Prior to meeting my boyfriend, I'm going to admit to you hear in writing, that I probably wasn't even aware that model railroading existed as a hobby prior to two years ago. So with limited experience and obviously being a women, I don't for a moment believe that 26% model z scale. The z scale people just did a better job of voting. Numbers can be skewed by the people who vote and BY THOSE WHO DON'T. Even if half of the 124,297 participated or 62,149 are actively acttually lurking around on this forum, only 1738 or 2% actually took the time to vote. I don't read much into these polls because I tend to very much be an independent thinker and don't much follow the crowd. Some of us have had great experiences in clubs and some haven't. Even though my first experience wasn't great, that's not to say that I might not choose to join another in the future. I don't think newcomers will be frightened off model railroading by this poll or that. On the polls and threads posted, people give both points of view. But it is for us to decide which is best for us. It's a very hard thing to post on a forum because you are exposing yourself to verbal tangles with others.This can be very intimidating. I know it was for me. Let's face it, when someone posts on a forum, we can't hear the tone of voice, intonation or see the body language or facial features. But, as I said in another thread somewhere else, what makes American great (and Canada, too) is that we can agree to disagree. I think you are all a bunch of great guys with great opinions and differences of opinions. And I hope we keep exchanging them. Hope everyone has a great Labor Day. I know I will, I'll be laboring at the restaurant. Reply Edit vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:16 AM OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? These polls are designed to offer an OPINION and FOSTER a conversation about the topic. they have NO basis for fact as not everyone who reads the question will respond plus these forums are a very limited slice of the hobbiest out there so of course the results are bogus. What they really do well is to get people to talk about things, like them or not these polls often gather the most replys of any forum topics. I will reply and then give my opinion since my views are often not a part of the poll selections. So guys, Lighten Up! and remember just because someone puts out a poll doesnt mean you have to reply to it...skip it and go to other topics if they bug you that much. I dont want anyone trying to poop on Freedon af Speech (or opinion) here. Have fun with your trains Reply vsmith Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Smoggy L.A. 10,743 posts Posted by vsmith on Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:16 AM OH COME ON GUYS!!! Do any of you take these polls seriously? These polls are designed to offer an OPINION and FOSTER a conversation about the topic. they have NO basis for fact as not everyone who reads the question will respond plus these forums are a very limited slice of the hobbiest out there so of course the results are bogus. What they really do well is to get people to talk about things, like them or not these polls often gather the most replys of any forum topics. I will reply and then give my opinion since my views are often not a part of the poll selections. So guys, Lighten Up! and remember just because someone puts out a poll doesnt mean you have to reply to it...skip it and go to other topics if they bug you that much. I dont want anyone trying to poop on Freedon af Speech (or opinion) here. Have fun with your trains Reply IRONROOSTER Member sinceJune 2003 From: Culpeper, Va 8,199 posts Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, August 31, 2003 7:14 AM Maybe the poll should have a disclaimer to avoid misleading people. I like the polls, especially when they generate interesting responses, but I have to admit that I got a real laugh out ot the best scale poll with Z getting most of the votes. As with all statistics you have to be careful when you don't know how they were generated. A good book on the subject is "How to Lie with Statistic" if you can find it. Part of what makes this hobby so fascinating is that there a lot of choices to be made and ways of doing things. Reading the passionately pro and anti opinions on a subject can help you make your own decisions, but in the end it is your decision. And if it doesn't work for you, do it another way. I have changed scales twice, layout concepts numerous times, building methods too often to count, etc. and I still enjoying seeing ideas and discussions from others. Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply IRONROOSTER Member sinceJune 2003 From: Culpeper, Va 8,199 posts Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, August 31, 2003 7:14 AM Maybe the poll should have a disclaimer to avoid misleading people. I like the polls, especially when they generate interesting responses, but I have to admit that I got a real laugh out ot the best scale poll with Z getting most of the votes. As with all statistics you have to be careful when you don't know how they were generated. A good book on the subject is "How to Lie with Statistic" if you can find it. Part of what makes this hobby so fascinating is that there a lot of choices to be made and ways of doing things. Reading the passionately pro and anti opinions on a subject can help you make your own decisions, but in the end it is your decision. And if it doesn't work for you, do it another way. I have changed scales twice, layout concepts numerous times, building methods too often to count, etc. and I still enjoying seeing ideas and discussions from others. Enjoy Paul If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:56 AM PS to the above : Rick....I didn't mean Athearn's one and only N scale unit...I was referring to H0. Mike Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:56 AM PS to the above : Rick....I didn't mean Athearn's one and only N scale unit...I was referring to H0. Mike Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:39 AM Fair enough folks. I see there are several here who realize that it's not constructive to intentionally try to mislead beginners in the hobby. That would be those very beginners who are likely to be online more than us geriatrics. As to harmless, one might refer to any internet forum on "best locomotives". I have seen more Athearn-bashing than enough the last couple of years, particularly on another well-known forum. The bashing has often been cruel and vindictive. [:(] However, both reputation , common sense, ( and statistically proven popular opinion ) shows that Athearn still happens to be a GREAT entry-level, or better, locomotive line for beginners. Why try to turn beginners off for all the wrong reasons ?[:(!] For those who like the polls, fine, enjoy the fiction....but I invoke what I commonly refer to as the "Alan Ladd" principle. A person standing on a box to look you in the eye, may be many, many things........and all of them may be admirable things.........but no matter what that person may be, "tall" is not one of them.[:o)] regards Mike Old enough to remember Alan Ladd[:D] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, August 31, 2003 5:39 AM Fair enough folks. I see there are several here who realize that it's not constructive to intentionally try to mislead beginners in the hobby. That would be those very beginners who are likely to be online more than us geriatrics. As to harmless, one might refer to any internet forum on "best locomotives". I have seen more Athearn-bashing than enough the last couple of years, particularly on another well-known forum. The bashing has often been cruel and vindictive. [:(] However, both reputation , common sense, ( and statistically proven popular opinion ) shows that Athearn still happens to be a GREAT entry-level, or better, locomotive line for beginners. Why try to turn beginners off for all the wrong reasons ?[:(!] For those who like the polls, fine, enjoy the fiction....but I invoke what I commonly refer to as the "Alan Ladd" principle. A person standing on a box to look you in the eye, may be many, many things........and all of them may be admirable things.........but no matter what that person may be, "tall" is not one of them.[:o)] regards Mike Old enough to remember Alan Ladd[:D] Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:14 PM I'm not sure what your question is, but I suspect you are talking about those modelling over thirty years. When I talk about something being skewed, it doesn't mean that one part of the population isn't there, it means the average (mean) has more of one type of group rather than another. Let me ask you this for your survival question on the Island - who is more likely to own a computer, using the internet: a) the 20 to 30 year olds b) the 60 to 70 year olds The correct answer is "a" but that doesn't mean no 60 to 70 year olds don't own computers and use the internet - many of them do, but as a grouping one is more dominant than the other. What the "how long have you been... " poll does do is raise the question of how many new people are coming into the hobby. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 10:14 PM I'm not sure what your question is, but I suspect you are talking about those modelling over thirty years. When I talk about something being skewed, it doesn't mean that one part of the population isn't there, it means the average (mean) has more of one type of group rather than another. Let me ask you this for your survival question on the Island - who is more likely to own a computer, using the internet: a) the 20 to 30 year olds b) the 60 to 70 year olds The correct answer is "a" but that doesn't mean no 60 to 70 year olds don't own computers and use the internet - many of them do, but as a grouping one is more dominant than the other. What the "how long have you been... " poll does do is raise the question of how many new people are coming into the hobby. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48 Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals. Please explain the "been modeling long" poll! C Tucker Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 8:40 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48 Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals. Please explain the "been modeling long" poll! C Tucker Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 30, 2003 6:57 PM The Z poll aspect was rigged somehow, I'm not sure how, but rigged it was. I enjoy polls in forums even if they are completely accurate as to the general population responses. Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals. I know some of the NMRA types tried to switch to electronic webs for their members but there was a tremendous resistance to it, since so many didn't have computers yet! or weren't using the internet - even though they were signed up on one! But you just need to look to the Atlas forum to see that responses are not reflective of the population. N scale responses out number HO responses; when you consider the ratio of N scaler's to HO'rs this is surprising, but not really. There are more younger people in N scale than in HO, and the younger people are more active on the internet so N scale is strong in the electronic media. Often I do dual posts in the Atlas N and HO forum. It is more common for the N scale thread to garner more posts than the HO thread. This has been true for the past couple of years. But the polls can give me a sense of what people are doing from questions like - how many have staging on their layout - to how many free lance vs prototypical, etc. So I like the polls as long as they aren't dominating the forums. Reply Edit 12 Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Have fun with your trains
QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48 Anything on an electronic medium such as the internet is going to skew responses to a younger audience since youth are more into the internet than some of the older guys and gals.