Bergie didn't do homework - Canadian Articulates

[Anonymous]

So Bergie initiated a poll call "monster locomotives" and as usual, Canadian content was non-existent - no surprises there if you are Canadian. But I did assign Bergie a homework task which he did not do - the question was - did Canada have articulates? Many Canadians don't know this so I knew it was a bit of a homework challenge. In fact in the Atlas N forum a member there said Canada had only one of them and I seemed to recall the number was higher than that. So here is an email from a friend of mine who has given me the definitive answer:

"Rick: You're right. CP had six 0-6-6-0 articulateds built in 1909-1911. They
operated for about 5 or 6 years before being converted into 2-10-0 class
engines. So, I would call them failures rather than experimentals.
Additionally, two small logging articulateds which were acquired second hand
from the U.S. ran on Vancouver Island until the late 40s or early 50s."

So now Bergie you are one of the few in North America who knows the answer to the Canadian articulate question.

[Anonymous]

So Bergie initiated a poll call "monster locomotives" and as usual, Canadian content was non-existent - no surprises there if you are Canadian. But I did assign Bergie a homework task which he did not do - the question was - did Canada have articulates? Many Canadians don't know this so I knew it was a bit of a homework challenge. In fact in the Atlas N forum a member there said Canada had only one of them and I seemed to recall the number was higher than that. So here is an email from a friend of mine who has given me the definitive answer:

"Rick: You're right. CP had six 0-6-6-0 articulateds built in 1909-1911. They
operated for about 5 or 6 years before being converted into 2-10-0 class
engines. So, I would call them failures rather than experimentals.
Additionally, two small logging articulateds which were acquired second hand
from the U.S. ran on Vancouver Island until the late 40s or early 50s."

So now Bergie you are one of the few in North America who knows the answer to the Canadian articulate question.

[Bergie]

Hi Rick,

You're right, I didn't take you up on the homework assignment. Unfortunately, I have two things working against me doing homework right now. First, my computer is having issues, which is lending to my second problem: a lack of time to do homework. [:)]

Please don't feel slighted about the lack of a Canadian locomotive in last week's poll (or any other poll we do). As you may have noticed, we didn't even come close to listing every locomotive that might be considered a "monster" locomotive. That poll was loosely based on locomotives that are coming - or are rumored to be coming - to the model railroading market sometime in the near future.

Most of all, please keep in mind that our polls are just for fun. If you ever notice something missing from the list of choices, please don't take it personally (especially if you're Canadian... we hold nothing against your fine country. In fact, CP runs through the village I live in and I enjoy their broad mix of power). Notice how I also left off the list all Mexican "monster" locomotives? [:D] See what I mean.

Remember, these polls are not scientific.

Have fun,
Erik (a.k.a. Bergie)

[Bergie]

Hi Rick,

You're right, I didn't take you up on the homework assignment. Unfortunately, I have two things working against me doing homework right now. First, my computer is having issues, which is lending to my second problem: a lack of time to do homework. [:)]

Please don't feel slighted about the lack of a Canadian locomotive in last week's poll (or any other poll we do). As you may have noticed, we didn't even come close to listing every locomotive that might be considered a "monster" locomotive. That poll was loosely based on locomotives that are coming - or are rumored to be coming - to the model railroading market sometime in the near future.

Most of all, please keep in mind that our polls are just for fun. If you ever notice something missing from the list of choices, please don't take it personally (especially if you're Canadian... we hold nothing against your fine country. In fact, CP runs through the village I live in and I enjoy their broad mix of power). Notice how I also left off the list all Mexican "monster" locomotives? [:D] See what I mean.

Remember, these polls are not scientific.

Have fun,
Erik (a.k.a. Bergie)

[Anonymous]

And don't take Canadian jibes to seriously. As a high school student, I went to Robert M. La Follete High in Madison, Wisconsin (and I' m glad I went there as that name is one of the answers need in the game Trivia Pursuit - another homework assignment Bergie - Why - what is important about that name?). Where this thought is going is that I learnt as a young high school student that Americans knew almost nothing about Canada. In fact, almost all Canadians know that.

We even have had television programs filmed by Canadians going to different areas in the USA proposing all forms of stupidity about Canada and getting Americans to agree. For example, there was the petition started to get Americans to support the legalization of staplers in Canada - and yep, lots of Americans signed - felt we should have the right to bear staplers just like in the good old USA.

I used to get in a huff about the whole thing until one day I asked myself what I knew about Mexico. And I'm afraid my knowledge of Mexico is about equal to an American's knowledge of Canada. So I decided until I learnt more about Mexico I really had no right to be angry about the whole situation, since Mexico is part of North America as well.

Anyways have a good weekend - and remember - Why is Robert M La Follette important - any good Wisconsinite should know the answer to that one.

[Anonymous]

And don't take Canadian jibes to seriously. As a high school student, I went to Robert M. La Follete High in Madison, Wisconsin (and I' m glad I went there as that name is one of the answers need in the game Trivia Pursuit - another homework assignment Bergie - Why - what is important about that name?). Where this thought is going is that I learnt as a young high school student that Americans knew almost nothing about Canada. In fact, almost all Canadians know that.

We even have had television programs filmed by Canadians going to different areas in the USA proposing all forms of stupidity about Canada and getting Americans to agree. For example, there was the petition started to get Americans to support the legalization of staplers in Canada - and yep, lots of Americans signed - felt we should have the right to bear staplers just like in the good old USA.

I used to get in a huff about the whole thing until one day I asked myself what I knew about Mexico. And I'm afraid my knowledge of Mexico is about equal to an American's knowledge of Canada. So I decided until I learnt more about Mexico I really had no right to be angry about the whole situation, since Mexico is part of North America as well.

Anyways have a good weekend - and remember - Why is Robert M La Follette important - any good Wisconsinite should know the answer to that one.

[alpreston]

Those CP 0-6-6-0's were not the first articulateds in Canada - There were at least 3 in service on various railroads prior to 1880. The 3' gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0's within a year or so. Not monsters by later standards, but plenty big enough for those days.

[alpreston]

Those CP 0-6-6-0's were not the first articulateds in Canada - There were at least 3 in service on various railroads prior to 1880. The 3' gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0's within a year or so. Not monsters by later standards, but plenty big enough for those days.

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48

And don't take Canadian jibes to seriously. As a high school student, I went to Robert M. La Follete High in Madison, Wisconsin (and I' m glad I went there as that name is one of the answers need in the game Trivia Pursuit - another homework assignment Bergie - Why - what is important about that name?). Where this thought is going is that I learnt as a young high school student that Americans knew almost nothing about Canada. In fact, almost all Canadians know that.

We even have had television programs filmed by Canadians going to different areas in the USA proposing all forms of stupidity about Canada and getting Americans to agree. For example, there was the petition started to get Americans to support the legalization of staplers in Canada - and yep, lots of Americans signed - felt we should have the right to bear staplers just like in the good old USA.

I used to get in a huff about the whole thing until one day I asked myself what I knew about Mexico. And I'm afraid my knowledge of Mexico is about equal to an American's knowledge of Canada. So I decided until I learnt more about Mexico I really had no right to be angry about the whole situation, since Mexico is part of North America as well.

Anyways have a good weekend - and remember - Why is Robert M La Follette important - any good Wisconsinite should know the answer to that one.

Don't worry, I'm not taking anything too serious.

Have you ever watched the Tonight Show with Jay Leno? He has a segment called Jay Walking (I think) where he goes out on the streets of L.A. and asks people trivia questions. You'd be surprised how dumb some people are. They don't even know details about America, let alone Canada! It's a pretty sad statement for our education system.

One last thing... you make the gross assumption that I'm a "Wisonsinite." Although I've lived here 10 years, I'm still in denial. I grew up in Illinois, and if you think Americans have it out for Canadians, you should see Wisconsinites on Illinigians (sp?) (and vis versa, I guess)! Yikes! Let's just say being a Chicago Bears fan is very painful in Green and Yellow (yes, it's yellow, not gold!) land. [B)]

Have a great weekend. Maybe I'll see if I can get a photo of a CP train this weekend and make it Photo of the Day on the Trains.com home page next week. [:)] Remember, it's all good.

Erik

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rsn48

And don't take Canadian jibes to seriously. As a high school student, I went to Robert M. La Follete High in Madison, Wisconsin (and I' m glad I went there as that name is one of the answers need in the game Trivia Pursuit - another homework assignment Bergie - Why - what is important about that name?). Where this thought is going is that I learnt as a young high school student that Americans knew almost nothing about Canada. In fact, almost all Canadians know that.

We even have had television programs filmed by Canadians going to different areas in the USA proposing all forms of stupidity about Canada and getting Americans to agree. For example, there was the petition started to get Americans to support the legalization of staplers in Canada - and yep, lots of Americans signed - felt we should have the right to bear staplers just like in the good old USA.

I used to get in a huff about the whole thing until one day I asked myself what I knew about Mexico. And I'm afraid my knowledge of Mexico is about equal to an American's knowledge of Canada. So I decided until I learnt more about Mexico I really had no right to be angry about the whole situation, since Mexico is part of North America as well.

Anyways have a good weekend - and remember - Why is Robert M La Follette important - any good Wisconsinite should know the answer to that one.

Don't worry, I'm not taking anything too serious.

Have you ever watched the Tonight Show with Jay Leno? He has a segment called Jay Walking (I think) where he goes out on the streets of L.A. and asks people trivia questions. You'd be surprised how dumb some people are. They don't even know details about America, let alone Canada! It's a pretty sad statement for our education system.

One last thing... you make the gross assumption that I'm a "Wisonsinite." Although I've lived here 10 years, I'm still in denial. I grew up in Illinois, and if you think Americans have it out for Canadians, you should see Wisconsinites on Illinigians (sp?) (and vis versa, I guess)! Yikes! Let's just say being a Chicago Bears fan is very painful in Green and Yellow (yes, it's yellow, not gold!) land. [B)]

Have a great weekend. Maybe I'll see if I can get a photo of a CP train this weekend and make it Photo of the Day on the Trains.com home page next week. [:)] Remember, it's all good.

Erik

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alpreston

Those CP 0-6-6-0's were not the first articulateds in Canada - There were at least 3 in service on various railroads prior to 1880. The 3' gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0's within a year or so. Not monsters by later standards, but plenty big enough for those days.

Ohhhh, the plot thickens. Now who didn't do their homework? [:D]

I guess we both get incompletes, rsn48. [:)]

Erik

[Bergie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alpreston

Those CP 0-6-6-0's were not the first articulateds in Canada - There were at least 3 in service on various railroads prior to 1880. The 3' gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0's within a year or so. Not monsters by later standards, but plenty big enough for those days.

Ohhhh, the plot thickens. Now who didn't do their homework? [:D]

I guess we both get incompletes, rsn48. [:)]

Erik

[Anonymous]

Spoiler Warning! [:)]

(sorry for the copy and paste -- I knew he was a Progressive and had a major impact on government, but I couldn't remember the details)

Robert M. La Follette -- The Wisconsin Idea

Robert M. “Fighting Bob” La Follette’s long public career in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century—as a U.S. Representative, three-term governor, and U.S. Senator—set precedents for generations of state and federal programs.

La Follette worked on two fronts. He sought institutional changes to place government more directly in the hands of citizens, and he pursued public policies to improve the lot of farmers, workers, children, and women.

La Follette and His Legacy

Revered by Wisconsinites and friends across the nation for being "the voice of humanism. in politics," he was eulogized for his philosophies, achievements, and most of all, his impeccable integrity. The Wisconsin legislature commissioned his sculpture to grace Statuary Hall in the nation's capitol. Two generations later "the dear old rotten Senate," as La Follette had called it, hung his portrait in the Senate lounge to honor him as one of the five most outstanding senators in the nation's history.

[Anonymous]

Spoiler Warning! [:)]

(sorry for the copy and paste -- I knew he was a Progressive and had a major impact on government, but I couldn't remember the details)

Robert M. La Follette -- The Wisconsin Idea

Robert M. “Fighting Bob” La Follette’s long public career in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century—as a U.S. Representative, three-term governor, and U.S. Senator—set precedents for generations of state and federal programs.

La Follette worked on two fronts. He sought institutional changes to place government more directly in the hands of citizens, and he pursued public policies to improve the lot of farmers, workers, children, and women.

La Follette and His Legacy

Revered by Wisconsinites and friends across the nation for being "the voice of humanism. in politics," he was eulogized for his philosophies, achievements, and most of all, his impeccable integrity. The Wisconsin legislature commissioned his sculpture to grace Statuary Hall in the nation's capitol. Two generations later "the dear old rotten Senate," as La Follette had called it, hung his portrait in the Senate lounge to honor him as one of the five most outstanding senators in the nation's history.

[DavidH]

Apropos of nothing in particular, in 1966, I visited Seattle for the first time. I was asked where I was from and I told the individual Winnipeg, Canada. They stared at me blankly. I then told them it was about 450 miles north of Minneapolis. They continued to stare at me blankly. I added Minnesota. Still no lights went on.

David

[DavidH]

Apropos of nothing in particular, in 1966, I visited Seattle for the first time. I was asked where I was from and I told the individual Winnipeg, Canada. They stared at me blankly. I then told them it was about 450 miles north of Minneapolis. They continued to stare at me blankly. I added Minnesota. Still no lights went on.

David

[BentnoseWillie]

Hey, I once got called a "Northerner" online - by someone in Seattle.

I live at around 45 deg. north latitude...Seattle is at 48...

[BentnoseWillie]

Hey, I once got called a "Northerner" online - by someone in Seattle.

I live at around 45 deg. north latitude...Seattle is at 48...

[Anonymous]

The answer to Robert M La Follette used to be he was the leader of the largest independent party from the Democrats and Republicans. I don't know if that is still true with Ross Peroe. But that was the answer in Trivia Pursuit and what I was taught at La Follette high.

Bergie I lived in Madison and Chicago so I know what you mean.

Trying to get information on Canadian Articulates all in one place is difficult, so I am not surprised there are more than I thought.

[Anonymous]

The answer to Robert M La Follette used to be he was the leader of the largest independent party from the Democrats and Republicans. I don't know if that is still true with Ross Peroe. But that was the answer in Trivia Pursuit and what I was taught at La Follette high.

Bergie I lived in Madison and Chicago so I know what you mean.

Trying to get information on Canadian Articulates all in one place is difficult, so I am not surprised there are more than I thought.

[Anonymous]

Do we want to include CPR's three Shays in the list of Canadian Articulateds as well?

Yet more homework required :^)

Tim Tumber
Wiltshire England
(About 53 degrees north if anyone wants to greet an Northerner !?!)

[Anonymous]

Do we want to include CPR's three Shays in the list of Canadian Articulateds as well?

Yet more homework required :^)

Tim Tumber
Wiltshire England
(About 53 degrees north if anyone wants to greet an Northerner !?!)

[Anonymous]

Timbo and others,
Go to this thread on the Atlas N scale forum. I think you will enjoy and some interesting pictures - more on the great Canadian debate on articulated's:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26342

[Anonymous]

Timbo and others,
Go to this thread on the Atlas N scale forum. I think you will enjoy and some interesting pictures - more on the great Canadian debate on articulated's:

http://forum.atlasrr.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=26342

[Isambard]

To "articulate" a bit more about those CPR 0-6-6-0 articulateds; referring to Omer Lavallée's Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives ( a virtual encyclopedia of pictures, information and data on CPR steamers from beginning to end of steam), six 0-6-6-0's were built by CPR's Angus Shops in Montreal between 1909 and 1911, specifically for helper service in the Canadian Rockies between Field BC and Revelstoke BC. The first five were superheated compounds, the sixth was superheated simple (the first simple articulated to go in service in the world (Alco's was still in a test phase). Their configuration was unique in that the two sets of cylinders were located back to back between the two sets of drivers. The units were rebuilt into CPR Class R2 5700 series 2-10-0's in 1917, experience showing high cost of repairs without real advantage from articulation due to the comparatively small size of these locomotives.

[Isambard]

To "articulate" a bit more about those CPR 0-6-6-0 articulateds; referring to Omer Lavallée's Canadian Pacific Steam Locomotives ( a virtual encyclopedia of pictures, information and data on CPR steamers from beginning to end of steam), six 0-6-6-0's were built by CPR's Angus Shops in Montreal between 1909 and 1911, specifically for helper service in the Canadian Rockies between Field BC and Revelstoke BC. The first five were superheated compounds, the sixth was superheated simple (the first simple articulated to go in service in the world (Alco's was still in a test phase). Their configuration was unique in that the two sets of cylinders were located back to back between the two sets of drivers. The units were rebuilt into CPR Class R2 5700 series 2-10-0's in 1917, experience showing high cost of repairs without real advantage from articulation due to the comparatively small size of these locomotives.

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Timbo2

Do we want to include CPR's three Shays in the list of Canadian Articulateds as well?

Yet more homework required :^)

Tim Tumber
Wiltshire England
(About 53 degrees north if anyone wants to greet an Northerner !?!)

We'd have much more homework to do if we include Shays in Canada, of which there were many, as we'd also have to include Heislers and Climaxs (but not Beyer-Garratts-says he expecting a challenge). Omer Lavallée categorized the Shays as 0-4-4-4's.

Ah well, enough lessons on the Great White North, for now.
[:)]

[Isambard]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Timbo2

Do we want to include CPR's three Shays in the list of Canadian Articulateds as well?

Yet more homework required :^)

Tim Tumber
Wiltshire England
(About 53 degrees north if anyone wants to greet an Northerner !?!)

We'd have much more homework to do if we include Shays in Canada, of which there were many, as we'd also have to include Heislers and Climaxs (but not Beyer-Garratts-says he expecting a challenge). Omer Lavallée categorized the Shays as 0-4-4-4's.

Ah well, enough lessons on the Great White North, for now.
[:)]

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alpreston

. . . . The 3' gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0's within a year or so. . . .

I've done a "Google" search, and a search in the Index of Magazines but was unable to find a photo or plans for the cited 0-4-4-0. Can anyone provide more information on it ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0543

[jrbarney]

QUOTE: Originally posted by alpreston

. . . . The 3' gauge Glasgow and Cape Breton got an 0-4-4-0 in 1872, and the Toronto & Nippissing and Toronto, Grey & Bruce both got 0-6-6-0's within a year or so. . . .

I've done a "Google" search, and a search in the Index of Magazines but was unable to find a photo or plans for the cited 0-4-4-0. Can anyone provide more information on it ?
Bob
NMRA Life 0543