Has Athearn Gone Nutz!!!

[Anonymous]

none of this is a problem.......if the new Athearn is overpriced, dont buy them. One of two things will surely happen...the will fold the line, or the price will come down. The BUYER always sets the price.......................by buying or not buying

[RedGrey62]

I still like Athearn, haven't had any real problems and still have a BB U28C that I got for my 14th birthday (lets just say 30 years or so ago) that still runs. I have some Genisis F units that run and look great. I don't buy as much now because the RTR stuff is starting to get out of my era (50s and 60s) and other companies have come out with cars much closer to my prototype (CB&Q).

That being said, I've talked to several LHS owners and been told that RTR is what the majority of people want. Instant gratification and you can't blame any manufacturer for going with that trend. Would I rather pay half the price and assemble it myself...maybe. Like so many other things these days, your paying for convienience and someone else's time.

Also, I'm not sure the increase prices can all be attributed to greed, It looks like Athearn is honestly trying reinvest to improve its products and grow its line, that takes money.

Rick

[BRAKIE]

Well have you seen Atlas's "Trainmain Series'" cars yet? No? Then you should check them out..IMHO they are nothing more then Athearn/MDC clones except the newer Athearn RTR cars has separate grab irons whereas the new Atlas cars doesn't- much like the Blue Box kit and BB RTR.
When Athearn bashers start bashing they should take the time to get their facts straight..[;)]

[Anonymous]

So what else is new? Both me and Antonio have said many times before about this on a different post. Till Athearn can get their foot out of their fandango,and "start listening to us modelers",I feel that their really isn't much else to say. With all that has been said about this subject,this IS the main reason why i have stopped buying MR supplies and models. I'm sure there are kits that I can buy,though why the hell should i pay up to $10.00 for a freight car kit? The one company i feel sorry for is Kalmbach Publishing.Here they make one excellent magazine ( Model Railroader ) and yet it seems that no one is even doing " it " due to having almost everything RTR---"Modeling".

[biggsy]

I agree I had an f7a-b what a load of crap, wheels out of gauge, motor noisy ,couplers wrong hight because the frame was milled to much and sat to low and those cinterd wheels,some werent even round.I threw it in the rubbish bin where it belonged,and bought a proto2k much better,I borrowed a genesis not long ago and it had a cracked gear,so much for quality control,the owner off that one replaced it with kato,made in japan not china.

[cacole]

It's really sad to see such an old, reliable company such as Athearn sinking into the abyss.

The first Athearn R-T-R rolling stock I purchased was their flat car with a Coca-Cola trailer. I'll never purchase another Athearn R-T-R product. It has the worst wheels on it that I have ever seen, and was, in my opinion, exhorbitantly overpriced for a "Made in China" product. The only way I could get it to roll more than a few inches, even with a hard push, was to replace the trucks.

Athearn Genesis? No more of them, either. I bought two of their SD-70's because they had Illinois Central markings. The trucks bind and derail, and are too stiff. Major surgery was required in order to get them to stay on the track when going around curves. I've never had this problem with any other brand of locomotive. The ditch light bulbs burned out in no time, and getting to them for replacement was extremely difficult. The light bulbs used in Athearn Genesis locomotives are of very poor quality.

Fortunately, a lot of old BB kits are available at the few hobby shops that are still in business.

Instead of Athearn, I now prefer Accurail or Bowser rolling stock kits.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gbailey

The trouble is that Athearn wants to price their RTR close to the P2K or Atlas cost, but without having the better detail and drives of the Atlas and P2K locos.

THAT'S why it is a rip-off. They make a loco of Atlas Master quality (which they haven't, even in the Genesis line), and I would have no trouble with their prices.

But Athearn is content to try and follow, not to try to lead.

Pricewise, the Athearn Genesis F7 is not a bad deal though when looking at the Master quality detail.

[fishplate]

As we all know, "Athearn" is a division of "Horizon", there for, the prices are not necessarily dictated by Athearn. From a business point of view, the purchase price
must be recovered and a profit made on that business' product. Thus, the item price goes up. Quality on some of the items will be better, while other items will not be,
or don't need it. All this is done throught carefull market analysis. Retaining as much as the market share of the purchaesd business as possible. That's it in a nutshell!

Just a side note, I've been a modelrailroader for 35 years, prices and availability has always been a issue.

[Anonymous]

To me, Athearn BB and even their RTR series are kind of like a blank canvas to detail and paint how you choose. Take an Athearn RTR SD40-2 and Kato SD45, for example. I just bought 2 Kato SD45s at $139.95 a pop(haven't told the warden yet[:D]), and I have to say I am truly impressed with detail and run quality. The same hobby shop also has an Athearn RTR SD40-2 which is not much different than the last gen BB version for $70.00. IMHO, the detail on the Athearn is pretty darn good even with the minor inaccuracies with the hood length and radiator screening. Even the hood doors look good, and are more than acceptable to me. The run quality is typical Athearn quiet but not Kato quiet. For less than $50, I can install an A-Line motor and NWSL driveshafts and have a sharp looking Athearn that runs just as good as my Kato. At that point, I'm into that Athearn for less than the Kato. I won't really count the details, because I have to alter a lot on both to fit my railroad.

I have seen the Genesis F-7s run and am very impressed with the detail and run quality on those. Unfortunately, a post-merger Wabash/N&W version is not offered, so I have no plans to buy those.

As far as being "nutz", I think Athearn is on the right track with more RTR stuff at a higher price. It's nice stuff, but to compare an RTR diesel to an Atlas or an RTR boxcar to Kadee is unfair. In the Reno and Sacramento area hobbyshops I've been to, the price difference is still huge. Sorry to be so long-winded.

Robert

[ericsp]

I do not see why anyone would want MU hoses on model locomotives. Sure, it makes the locomotive look more prototypical if it is operating alone. However, it looks silly when there is a multiple unit consist and the MU hoses are not connected.

As for unprototypical paint schemes, if you are going to bash Athearn, then there are other companies that needing bashing. Take Walthers boxcars 932-7110 and 932-7111 for example. Neighter SP nor SSW ever had these types of cars. The road number for the SP car is for a class B-70-43, which have double plug door boxcars and should not have the large rib above the trucks. The SSW car's road number is for a B-70-42R, it is the same as the SP car but should have a peaked roof. Also, did not Con-Cor off the MHC cars decorated for various railroads? Maybe Athearn, and other companies, should put a notice that models that have unprototypical paint schemes that they are unprototypical, but I do not think they should necessarily stop. Sometimes I want to model a locomotive or car for a certain railroad even if it is unprototypical.

[RMax1]

I have bought Athearn cars that are nothing more than put together BB that they wanted twice as much for. The reason I bought them was a specific need. One of the problems I have is that the closest LHS does not carry much in stock and you would need to order. I can drive 20 miles each way and waste $5 - $6 bucks in gas to go to another that has been having less each time I visit and is a major hassle to get to. The other option is to do what I normally do and order over the internet. I would like to know something about the quality. The Locos I have seen by AThearn that are RTR's are the F7's. They are not worth the money. I have seen the new SD45T-2 and read some good things about them. Problem is Athearn seems to be hit or miss. There are some other things I would like to purchase but I will not buy a loco that is nothing more than had the handrails put on by some one and pay twice the price. If the piece has real improved looks and performance then that is good. How do they compare to the other manufactures out there? The question is are they just selling the same old product for twice the price or have they made improvements. The answer is yes and no to both. $100 for a BB engine with the handrails glued on is a rip. If it has improved drive, better details, quieter, DCC up grade, operating ditchlights etc then it may be worth the price. I like and have bought a bunch of Athearn products. You just can't tell what you are getting and if it's worth the price anymore.

RMax1

[Anonymous]

Why do folk compare BB offerings (and prices) of 10+ years ago to TODAYS offerings and prices ????

My 51 loco fleet was bought within the LAST FIVE YEARS. That allows a better comparison of recent offerings, IMHO.

To compare the price of even a 5+ year Athearn BB to a recent Atlas Master Silver is a bit much!

My new Atlas Master Silver Dash 8-40BW cost far more than my old BB Athearn SD40-2 , but the Atlas has FAR better (and more correct) detail, a FAR better drive system, directional lights instead of the "bonfire in the cab", working ditch lights, is DCC ready, and is worth the price, IMHO.

But when an Athearn RTR price approaches the Atlas, but without the quality and features of the Atlas models ... well, I know which I will buy !!!

As I said, Atlas just took the lead in my loco count !

[Anonymous]

I rely on athearn for cheap rolling stock. Once fitted with metal wheels and kaydees as well as weighted properly they perform well.

My last athearn loco was a Genesis 2-8-2 A real nice engine. But too light in both heft and pulling dept. I sold it and used the funds to help purchase a BLI heavy Mike that performs much better.

I have always considered Athearn a tough engine for the money. I have a pair that runs after 20 years. That has to be worth something. I dont think I got 50 dollars in both of these two units.

Compare that to the higher priced units I think Athearn did pretty good. I have a taste for high dollar good performing engines with lots of detail. Hence my ABBA Lashup of P2k FA's I would think that a set of Athearn Genesis F7 ABBA's would pull just as good and look as good as well; I dont know you tell me.

The market is going to DCC and sound. That is the future. Athearn for me has done a good job these last 30+ years for the money. That is something worth thinking about.

[Anonymous]

Athearn wouldn't get bashed if they didn't try to sell inferior products at the cost of better products. Or if they tried to take the LEAD in MRRing for a change instead of merely reacting to offerings by Life-like, Kato and Atlas.

Yes, they have improved - but not enough, IMHO.

There have been too many flaws in some of the original Genesis lines (the first SD70M and the "Mike" in particular, to my fustration!). For THAT cost, things should be RIGHT! And as far as BB goes, research flaws abound! Take their BB RI SD40-2 - with dynamic brakes! Or their RI "SW7" - that the RI never had! Or the wrong markings on various boxcars ... there was a REASON for some of the after-market redoers - so we could have CORRECT markings! But why couldn't ATHEARN get it right the FIRST TIME ??? Old news ??? They are still making the same type of mistakes with some of the new RTR stuff !!!! There is nothing like good research ... and some of Athearns offerings are nothing like good research !!!

As far as vehicles go, I do like their JD stuff and some of their trucks, but think that Classic Metal Works makes some better cars (older) and so does Atlas (newer).

Sorry, but's not "bashing" to tell the truth about how we feel about Athearn products !!!
(Although I've noticed lately that those on the extreme right or left can no longer recognize the truth, but that's another topic and non-MRRing related!
My Athearn, right or wrong !!??!!!).

I do hope Athearn will continue to improve their products - I MAY buy them again, some day. When I started in MRRing, my Athearn locos were about 75% of my fleet - they are now down to 24% (tied with P2K), with Atlas locos in the lead. I know the quality of the recent offerings by different makers because I have bought from most of them and can directly compare .... and Athearn just comes up short.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like we have alot of Athearn bashers on this forum, just like the Atlas forum. Is it fashionable to bash Athearn these days? Or is it because they're the market leader? In any case, Athearn has definitely improved their product from the BB line. They could use better detailing on the Genesis line, like brake cylinder piping, mu hoses, and coupler lift bar but overall it's an excellent product for the money in my opinion.

Considering that I model HO vehicles as well, there is not a single manufacturer out there that can touch Athearn as far as product offerings.
Their new Mack B and R trucks are beautiul and very detailed, plus the paint jobs are excellent. I can only hope that Athearn makes current class 8 tractors one day.

Vito L.

[CP5415]

I have to say that my in my experience with Athearn, I've only had one item that I wasn't overly happy with.
Out of almost 125 pieces of Athearn, that's not bad.
I've not had major problems with any BB or RTR that couldn't or wasn't resolved quickly.

I'm not sure of how anyone here bought there stuff but EVERYTHING I've bought was taken out of the box at my LHS & looked over before I bought it.

I don't think Athearn has gone nuts, I think they're only going with what the market is saying right now.
At first I had a problem with the price of the RTR stuff, but after buying my P42, I was convinced that Athearn has made progress over the BB locmotives.
I have to disagree with James, I think Athearn will be around for a long time.
But that's just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

The trouble is that Athearn wants to price their RTR close to the P2K or Atlas cost, but without having the better detail and drives of the Atlas and P2K locos.

THAT'S why it is a rip-off. They make a loco of Atlas Master quality (which they haven't, even in the Genesis line), and I would have no trouble with their prices.

But Athearn is content to try and follow, not to try to lead.

[mustanggt]

I agree that athearn is a rip in some areas, rtr F7 sets being one of them. but they also have made some excellent equipment in the last 2 or 3 years, like the F59PH, CF7, GP60M, and Bombardier cars, all of which I own.

[Anonymous]

There dead, well not yet. But Athearn is losing its foot hold fast. I do not expect them to be around in 5 years. I feel the RTR line has some very serious problems. Every piece of Athearn RTR I have been given, (I hold it in such contempt I refuse to buy it) has had to be completly taken apart and reworked. I have had problems like 1. Wheels majorly out of gauge. (On one Refridgerator car, the wheels could almost fit HOn3 track. ) Cars not assembled correctly, Cars falling to pieces as soon as they have been taken out of the box. They used to be the standard of the hobby. I hang out in Accurail land now. I mean I had less problems from Bachmann equipment in the 1980s which everyone here will probably agree was out right junk. The only exception I will make to my Athearn RTR is they do now make the F-7 AB set in Big Sky Blue that I am seriously considering. But Big Sky Blue will probably be its only redeeming quality.

James.

[dinwitty]

I have personal requirements for a locomotive to operate, it has to be able to move at a crawl, and yet have a decent run speed. A lot of early models were train set stuff that run in circles around the christmas tree, but I for one am glad to see real quality models come out.
LifeLIke's 2-8-4 does this, very impressed, I have always modified my rivarossi locos to slow down with NWSL gearing, glad to see the hobby wake up.
I have a RR E8 all apart looking for a decent drive train, now I am ready to trash it.
on another end BLI has come out with the N&W hopper, what, 30 bucks or something for a hopper? no way.
but there are people out there richer than me, those who buy brass.
I think you're going to see changes in Athearn to up their quality from their old standards, seeing all the competition coming out with quality models and people are buying them, and quite frankly, I have several Rivarossi steamers, and I plan to switch to the near BLI/Proto/BachPlus equivelents.
Athearn will have to change to stay with it, but I hope they keep prices reasonable.

[Anonymous]

We love to complain about prices in this hobby, but $100 for a locomotive doesn't sound too bad when you consider I have two Trix cabooses at $40.00+EACH, and one Intermountain ATSF caboose at $40.00+. If a caboose is worth $40.00 then a locomotive is easily worth $100.00. Back in the Athearn loco for $15.00 days a caboose was....what.....maybe three or four dollars. That made the engine worth three point 75 times the caboose price. With a $40.00 caboose the $100 locomotive is worth two point five times the caboose price. Doesn't look so bad with the lights on.

Cheers,

Ed

[pandabear]

I have to agree with Joe on this one. In buying a SD70MAC, the Athearn model for $100 at a train show was a much better deal to me than the identical model from KATO for $30-50 more. Around here in Nebraska, I find the Athearn/Genesis new stuff competitively priced with the new P2Ks, and I would have gone with the RTR SD60s instead of the P2Ks if they had come out sooner. I can't fault Athearn for thier pricing, my only grieveance is that they should have started sooner!

[jfugate]

Although I like to find good deals and cheaper model items as much as the next guy, I don't fault a manufacturer like Athearn charging what the market will bear on an item instead of way underpricing it.

Sure, I remember when I first got into the hobby I could get an Athearn loco for $15 (1967) but when I look at the new SD45T2 they just came out with, I'm glad to pay $100 for it. The detail is wonderful, it comes fully DCC ready with 2 different decoder plug options, and it runs nice.

I don't fault Athearn for making as much as they can (want them to stay in buiness) but if their stuff was priced much below everything else, that would convey the impression their version is a cheap (read: shoddy) option compared to getting a cadillac like an Atlas or Kato.

All along the way I've seen Athearn improve their drives and their detail. They moved to enclosed motors, flywheels, improved gearing, finer details, scale width hoods on new models -- all with very little price increase. Meanwhile, the market moved on and loco prices steadily climbed while Athearn's prices stayed pretty flat.

So I have enjoyed it while it lasted, but it's actually long overdue. And if it keeps the business side of the hobby attactive enough they'll keep making all this great stuff, then that's a good thing.

[Anonymous]

Antonio,

I didn't mean any harm when I said fools. I really don't think it's an offensive word, but I'll change it anyhoo.

[Anonymous]

Boy, I'm sorry you guys all seem to be holding something against Athearn.....

"They've hiked up their MSRPs"

Who hasn't these days? Most Athearn RTR and Genesis Items are still a considerable amount less than todays P2Ks. A good example would be an Athearn RTR SD50 for $67.00 versus a P2K SD50 for $85.00 at First Hobby of Decuater, IL. And, IMO, the deatail is as good if not better than the P2Ks! Athearn's got my money on this one!

"The detailing really isn't better than the old BBs"

Open your eyes! Compare a BB SD40-2 to an RTR SD40-2! You CAN see the difference!

"The new Genesis units still growl. And I payed over $100 for one!"

Is that a problem to you? That $100 may have been a dissapointment in the noise category, but think about the detail, the power and the reliability! Really, how many people have had serious problems with Athearns?

So buy what you like. But for now, I'll put my money and trust in the reliability and reputation of Athearn.

[AntonioFP45]

SiberianMO, Rmax1,

Hopefully you'll see this message. I went ahead and pulled that topic to the front page.

Hope this helps!

[siberianmo]

RMax1 I'm serious, check out that thread .......

[RMax1]

I currently have both BB and Proto 2000. The Proto 2000's just far out class the Athearns on many levels. Athearn has some new things coming out that look nice the SD45T-2 for example and a new GP38-2 MKT. The SD from what i here is very nice the GP is same old same old maybe??? Normally I have no problem spending the money for a nice Proto 2000. The Athearns I would buy in quanitiy and work them over real hard. Now I will have to buy far less and if I have to make a choice the Proto 2000 wins and the Athearn will lose almost every timeunless there is something there of equal or better value.

RMax1

[siberianmo]

RMax1 I agree with your assessment .. but then what do I know? You'll find much more by checking out the topic "Poor Athearn! I like them, but they keep missing the knocks of opportunity!" originally posted on this forum by AntonioFP45 on 18 Apr 2005.

You'll find all sorts of commentary .... form your own opinions, of course. Gets kind of "personal" with some respondents.

See ya![tup][;)]