Has Athearn Gone Nutz!!!

[RMax1]

Ok how much better if any are the new RTR locos compared to the BB ones of a few years ago??? Seems the cost has more than doubled on some and why would you buy an Athearn RTR at the same price or close to a Proto 2000 model??? Sure there are discounters and the internet to buy from but even at a 20% discount $80 for an RTR vs. the BB at $40. Seems everyone wants at least $100 o matter what they are selling but $100 for a put to gether BB seems like a price gouge.

RMax1

[Anonymous]

I thought the same when I saw a pair of original Athearn F-7 A nd B units in one package at the LHS a while ago. It was $100.00 Canadian. Sure they had Kadee clone couplers and the painting/.lettering was better than the old BB ones, but a hundred bucks? The A unit was powered, the B unit wasn't .

Thanks but no thanks!

Bob Boudreau

[RMax1]

See I know they have made some upgrades like dcc harness and motor upgrades. They have added nicer couplers(big deal so have the cheapie cars out there) but have they made enough improvements. I have bought Athearn stuff for a long time but now that they are twice the price are they twice as good.. If so great I will continue to buy them be it not as many. I have a problem paying twice the money for nothing. I have not bought a RTR loco but have bought some of the cars. The cars are not really worth the extra money. Pretty much the same car just put together.

RMax1

[Anonymous]

No, most new Model Railroaders have gotten used to the $100+ plastic diesels, so the marketing types at Athearn/Horizon figure if the bring in their RTR at a little under $100 they will make a killing. Although they will only see my money for the DTI GP-35's and not much else, and I still have to modify them to make them correct.

Rick

[Todd McWilliam]

On the GP38-2 and the gp40-2 and SD40-2, they are just decorated blue boxes, but the SD50 and 60 are sharp, and GP35 is nice too. I am a big Athearn supporter, and I think they are getting better.

[AntonioFP45]

Yikes!!

I agree with you all on this one.

One thing though, are these prices due to Athearn setting the MSRP? Or, is it just that some dealers have decided to mark them up considerably higher, especially if they're in an area where customers normally pay higher than retail prices.

Here in Florida there is an attractive LHS that charges higher than normal prices on many HO items. (No! Not Happy Hobo, thankfully) But customers come in droves due to good marketing and the twice yearly train shows it puts on.

Regarding: Modelers used to paying the $100 plus for plastic locomotives.

I guess I've been very fortunate as I have yet to pay $100 for a locomotive. Though it may happen if it's a unit that I have no other way of getting. I've gotten several brand new units on Ebay and I wait for my LHS owner to put some units on sale.

As I stated on another thread, my big turn-off to my continued support of Athearn locos was listening to a few Athearn Genesis six axle units my wife's cousin bought. There was that infamous "Growwwwwwwl". No big deal, until he tells you he paid over $100 each! Since then he's switched over to LL P2Ks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

I thought the same when I saw a pair of original Athearn F-7 A nd B units in one package at the LHS a while ago. It was $100.00 Canadian. Sure they had Kadee clone couplers and the painting/.lettering was better than the old BB ones, but a hundred bucks? The A unit was powered, the B unit wasn't .

That's a rip, they should both be powered for that price, and the kadee clones aren't anything to be proud of, they break if you put them in a tight spot, they just aren't as strong as the real ones.

[Don Gibson]

TODAY's dollar 'aint what it used to be.

Athearn big time improved the paint job and the motor. Mold's from RPP has given them some new Diesels.

'Marketing'? They are looking at Proto 2000's 'backside.' YOU will decide what you will buy and spend - with today's dollars.

[siberianmo]

RMax1 I agree with your assessment .. but then what do I know? You'll find much more by checking out the topic "Poor Athearn! I like them, but they keep missing the knocks of opportunity!" originally posted on this forum by AntonioFP45 on 18 Apr 2005.

You'll find all sorts of commentary .... form your own opinions, of course. Gets kind of "personal" with some respondents.

See ya![tup][;)]

[RMax1]

I currently have both BB and Proto 2000. The Proto 2000's just far out class the Athearns on many levels. Athearn has some new things coming out that look nice the SD45T-2 for example and a new GP38-2 MKT. The SD from what i here is very nice the GP is same old same old maybe??? Normally I have no problem spending the money for a nice Proto 2000. The Athearns I would buy in quanitiy and work them over real hard. Now I will have to buy far less and if I have to make a choice the Proto 2000 wins and the Athearn will lose almost every timeunless there is something there of equal or better value.

RMax1

[siberianmo]

RMax1 I'm serious, check out that thread .......

[AntonioFP45]

SiberianMO, Rmax1,

Hopefully you'll see this message. I went ahead and pulled that topic to the front page.

Hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

Boy, I'm sorry you guys all seem to be holding something against Athearn.....

"They've hiked up their MSRPs"

Who hasn't these days? Most Athearn RTR and Genesis Items are still a considerable amount less than todays P2Ks. A good example would be an Athearn RTR SD50 for $67.00 versus a P2K SD50 for $85.00 at First Hobby of Decuater, IL. And, IMO, the deatail is as good if not better than the P2Ks! Athearn's got my money on this one!

"The detailing really isn't better than the old BBs"

Open your eyes! Compare a BB SD40-2 to an RTR SD40-2! You CAN see the difference!

"The new Genesis units still growl. And I payed over $100 for one!"

Is that a problem to you? That $100 may have been a dissapointment in the noise category, but think about the detail, the power and the reliability! Really, how many people have had serious problems with Athearns?

So buy what you like. But for now, I'll put my money and trust in the reliability and reputation of Athearn.

[Anonymous]

Antonio,

I didn't mean any harm when I said fools. I really don't think it's an offensive word, but I'll change it anyhoo.

[jfugate]

Although I like to find good deals and cheaper model items as much as the next guy, I don't fault a manufacturer like Athearn charging what the market will bear on an item instead of way underpricing it.

Sure, I remember when I first got into the hobby I could get an Athearn loco for $15 (1967) but when I look at the new SD45T2 they just came out with, I'm glad to pay $100 for it. The detail is wonderful, it comes fully DCC ready with 2 different decoder plug options, and it runs nice.

I don't fault Athearn for making as much as they can (want them to stay in buiness) but if their stuff was priced much below everything else, that would convey the impression their version is a cheap (read: shoddy) option compared to getting a cadillac like an Atlas or Kato.

All along the way I've seen Athearn improve their drives and their detail. They moved to enclosed motors, flywheels, improved gearing, finer details, scale width hoods on new models -- all with very little price increase. Meanwhile, the market moved on and loco prices steadily climbed while Athearn's prices stayed pretty flat.

So I have enjoyed it while it lasted, but it's actually long overdue. And if it keeps the business side of the hobby attactive enough they'll keep making all this great stuff, then that's a good thing.

[pandabear]

I have to agree with Joe on this one. In buying a SD70MAC, the Athearn model for $100 at a train show was a much better deal to me than the identical model from KATO for $30-50 more. Around here in Nebraska, I find the Athearn/Genesis new stuff competitively priced with the new P2Ks, and I would have gone with the RTR SD60s instead of the P2Ks if they had come out sooner. I can't fault Athearn for thier pricing, my only grieveance is that they should have started sooner!

[Anonymous]

We love to complain about prices in this hobby, but $100 for a locomotive doesn't sound too bad when you consider I have two Trix cabooses at $40.00+EACH, and one Intermountain ATSF caboose at $40.00+. If a caboose is worth $40.00 then a locomotive is easily worth $100.00. Back in the Athearn loco for $15.00 days a caboose was....what.....maybe three or four dollars. That made the engine worth three point 75 times the caboose price. With a $40.00 caboose the $100 locomotive is worth two point five times the caboose price. Doesn't look so bad with the lights on.

Cheers,

Ed

[dinwitty]

I have personal requirements for a locomotive to operate, it has to be able to move at a crawl, and yet have a decent run speed. A lot of early models were train set stuff that run in circles around the christmas tree, but I for one am glad to see real quality models come out.
LifeLIke's 2-8-4 does this, very impressed, I have always modified my rivarossi locos to slow down with NWSL gearing, glad to see the hobby wake up.
I have a RR E8 all apart looking for a decent drive train, now I am ready to trash it.
on another end BLI has come out with the N&W hopper, what, 30 bucks or something for a hopper? no way.
but there are people out there richer than me, those who buy brass.
I think you're going to see changes in Athearn to up their quality from their old standards, seeing all the competition coming out with quality models and people are buying them, and quite frankly, I have several Rivarossi steamers, and I plan to switch to the near BLI/Proto/BachPlus equivelents.
Athearn will have to change to stay with it, but I hope they keep prices reasonable.

[Anonymous]

There dead, well not yet. But Athearn is losing its foot hold fast. I do not expect them to be around in 5 years. I feel the RTR line has some very serious problems. Every piece of Athearn RTR I have been given, (I hold it in such contempt I refuse to buy it) has had to be completly taken apart and reworked. I have had problems like 1. Wheels majorly out of gauge. (On one Refridgerator car, the wheels could almost fit HOn3 track. ) Cars not assembled correctly, Cars falling to pieces as soon as they have been taken out of the box. They used to be the standard of the hobby. I hang out in Accurail land now. I mean I had less problems from Bachmann equipment in the 1980s which everyone here will probably agree was out right junk. The only exception I will make to my Athearn RTR is they do now make the F-7 AB set in Big Sky Blue that I am seriously considering. But Big Sky Blue will probably be its only redeeming quality.

James.

[mustanggt]

I agree that athearn is a rip in some areas, rtr F7 sets being one of them. but they also have made some excellent equipment in the last 2 or 3 years, like the F59PH, CF7, GP60M, and Bombardier cars, all of which I own.

[Anonymous]

The trouble is that Athearn wants to price their RTR close to the P2K or Atlas cost, but without having the better detail and drives of the Atlas and P2K locos.

THAT'S why it is a rip-off. They make a loco of Atlas Master quality (which they haven't, even in the Genesis line), and I would have no trouble with their prices.

But Athearn is content to try and follow, not to try to lead.

[CP5415]

I have to say that my in my experience with Athearn, I've only had one item that I wasn't overly happy with.
Out of almost 125 pieces of Athearn, that's not bad.
I've not had major problems with any BB or RTR that couldn't or wasn't resolved quickly.

I'm not sure of how anyone here bought there stuff but EVERYTHING I've bought was taken out of the box at my LHS & looked over before I bought it.

I don't think Athearn has gone nuts, I think they're only going with what the market is saying right now.
At first I had a problem with the price of the RTR stuff, but after buying my P42, I was convinced that Athearn has made progress over the BB locmotives.
I have to disagree with James, I think Athearn will be around for a long time.
But that's just my 2 cents

Gordon

[Anonymous]

Sounds like we have alot of Athearn bashers on this forum, just like the Atlas forum. Is it fashionable to bash Athearn these days? Or is it because they're the market leader? In any case, Athearn has definitely improved their product from the BB line. They could use better detailing on the Genesis line, like brake cylinder piping, mu hoses, and coupler lift bar but overall it's an excellent product for the money in my opinion.

Considering that I model HO vehicles as well, there is not a single manufacturer out there that can touch Athearn as far as product offerings.
Their new Mack B and R trucks are beautiul and very detailed, plus the paint jobs are excellent. I can only hope that Athearn makes current class 8 tractors one day.

Vito L.

[Anonymous]

Athearn wouldn't get bashed if they didn't try to sell inferior products at the cost of better products. Or if they tried to take the LEAD in MRRing for a change instead of merely reacting to offerings by Life-like, Kato and Atlas.

Yes, they have improved - but not enough, IMHO.

There have been too many flaws in some of the original Genesis lines (the first SD70M and the "Mike" in particular, to my fustration!). For THAT cost, things should be RIGHT! And as far as BB goes, research flaws abound! Take their BB RI SD40-2 - with dynamic brakes! Or their RI "SW7" - that the RI never had! Or the wrong markings on various boxcars ... there was a REASON for some of the after-market redoers - so we could have CORRECT markings! But why couldn't ATHEARN get it right the FIRST TIME ??? Old news ??? They are still making the same type of mistakes with some of the new RTR stuff !!!! There is nothing like good research ... and some of Athearns offerings are nothing like good research !!!

As far as vehicles go, I do like their JD stuff and some of their trucks, but think that Classic Metal Works makes some better cars (older) and so does Atlas (newer).

Sorry, but's not "bashing" to tell the truth about how we feel about Athearn products !!!
(Although I've noticed lately that those on the extreme right or left can no longer recognize the truth, but that's another topic and non-MRRing related!
My Athearn, right or wrong !!??!!!).

I do hope Athearn will continue to improve their products - I MAY buy them again, some day. When I started in MRRing, my Athearn locos were about 75% of my fleet - they are now down to 24% (tied with P2K), with Atlas locos in the lead. I know the quality of the recent offerings by different makers because I have bought from most of them and can directly compare .... and Athearn just comes up short.

[Anonymous]

I rely on athearn for cheap rolling stock. Once fitted with metal wheels and kaydees as well as weighted properly they perform well.

My last athearn loco was a Genesis 2-8-2 A real nice engine. But too light in both heft and pulling dept. I sold it and used the funds to help purchase a BLI heavy Mike that performs much better.

I have always considered Athearn a tough engine for the money. I have a pair that runs after 20 years. That has to be worth something. I dont think I got 50 dollars in both of these two units.

Compare that to the higher priced units I think Athearn did pretty good. I have a taste for high dollar good performing engines with lots of detail. Hence my ABBA Lashup of P2k FA's I would think that a set of Athearn Genesis F7 ABBA's would pull just as good and look as good as well; I dont know you tell me.

The market is going to DCC and sound. That is the future. Athearn for me has done a good job these last 30+ years for the money. That is something worth thinking about.

[Anonymous]

Why do folk compare BB offerings (and prices) of 10+ years ago to TODAYS offerings and prices ????

My 51 loco fleet was bought within the LAST FIVE YEARS. That allows a better comparison of recent offerings, IMHO.

To compare the price of even a 5+ year Athearn BB to a recent Atlas Master Silver is a bit much!

My new Atlas Master Silver Dash 8-40BW cost far more than my old BB Athearn SD40-2 , but the Atlas has FAR better (and more correct) detail, a FAR better drive system, directional lights instead of the "bonfire in the cab", working ditch lights, is DCC ready, and is worth the price, IMHO.

But when an Athearn RTR price approaches the Atlas, but without the quality and features of the Atlas models ... well, I know which I will buy !!!

As I said, Atlas just took the lead in my loco count !

[RMax1]

I have bought Athearn cars that are nothing more than put together BB that they wanted twice as much for. The reason I bought them was a specific need. One of the problems I have is that the closest LHS does not carry much in stock and you would need to order. I can drive 20 miles each way and waste $5 - $6 bucks in gas to go to another that has been having less each time I visit and is a major hassle to get to. The other option is to do what I normally do and order over the internet. I would like to know something about the quality. The Locos I have seen by AThearn that are RTR's are the F7's. They are not worth the money. I have seen the new SD45T-2 and read some good things about them. Problem is Athearn seems to be hit or miss. There are some other things I would like to purchase but I will not buy a loco that is nothing more than had the handrails put on by some one and pay twice the price. If the piece has real improved looks and performance then that is good. How do they compare to the other manufactures out there? The question is are they just selling the same old product for twice the price or have they made improvements. The answer is yes and no to both. $100 for a BB engine with the handrails glued on is a rip. If it has improved drive, better details, quieter, DCC up grade, operating ditchlights etc then it may be worth the price. I like and have bought a bunch of Athearn products. You just can't tell what you are getting and if it's worth the price anymore.

RMax1

[ericsp]

I do not see why anyone would want MU hoses on model locomotives. Sure, it makes the locomotive look more prototypical if it is operating alone. However, it looks silly when there is a multiple unit consist and the MU hoses are not connected.

As for unprototypical paint schemes, if you are going to bash Athearn, then there are other companies that needing bashing. Take Walthers boxcars 932-7110 and 932-7111 for example. Neighter SP nor SSW ever had these types of cars. The road number for the SP car is for a class B-70-43, which have double plug door boxcars and should not have the large rib above the trucks. The SSW car's road number is for a B-70-42R, it is the same as the SP car but should have a peaked roof. Also, did not Con-Cor off the MHC cars decorated for various railroads? Maybe Athearn, and other companies, should put a notice that models that have unprototypical paint schemes that they are unprototypical, but I do not think they should necessarily stop. Sometimes I want to model a locomotive or car for a certain railroad even if it is unprototypical.

[Anonymous]

To me, Athearn BB and even their RTR series are kind of like a blank canvas to detail and paint how you choose. Take an Athearn RTR SD40-2 and Kato SD45, for example. I just bought 2 Kato SD45s at $139.95 a pop(haven't told the warden yet[:D]), and I have to say I am truly impressed with detail and run quality. The same hobby shop also has an Athearn RTR SD40-2 which is not much different than the last gen BB version for $70.00. IMHO, the detail on the Athearn is pretty darn good even with the minor inaccuracies with the hood length and radiator screening. Even the hood doors look good, and are more than acceptable to me. The run quality is typical Athearn quiet but not Kato quiet. For less than $50, I can install an A-Line motor and NWSL driveshafts and have a sharp looking Athearn that runs just as good as my Kato. At that point, I'm into that Athearn for less than the Kato. I won't really count the details, because I have to alter a lot on both to fit my railroad.

I have seen the Genesis F-7s run and am very impressed with the detail and run quality on those. Unfortunately, a post-merger Wabash/N&W version is not offered, so I have no plans to buy those.

As far as being "nutz", I think Athearn is on the right track with more RTR stuff at a higher price. It's nice stuff, but to compare an RTR diesel to an Atlas or an RTR boxcar to Kadee is unfair. In the Reno and Sacramento area hobbyshops I've been to, the price difference is still huge. Sorry to be so long-winded.

Robert

[fishplate]

As we all know, "Athearn" is a division of "Horizon", there for, the prices are not necessarily dictated by Athearn. From a business point of view, the purchase price
must be recovered and a profit made on that business' product. Thus, the item price goes up. Quality on some of the items will be better, while other items will not be,
or don't need it. All this is done throught carefull market analysis. Retaining as much as the market share of the purchaesd business as possible. That's it in a nutshell!

Just a side note, I've been a modelrailroader for 35 years, prices and availability has always been a issue.