NMRA Membership - wow!

[WickhamMan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericboone

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan
Ultimately, the open standard (VHS) won but not because of any market power.

What are you talking about here? Because of the VHS standard, more companies made products, increasing the supply and variety of available compatable products. The consumer having increased choices is indeed a big market force. Increased supply also reduces price, which is another big market force. Market forces had everything to do with VHS dominating BETA.

Eric,

You make my point exactly. The standard was set by market forces, not some arbitrary sanctioning body like NMRA or some large corporate monolith as stated in an earlier post.

[on30francisco]

I used to belong to the NMRA in the late 70s through the early 90s. I feel it was well worth it back then. The Bulletins were very informative with a lot of modeling tips and ideas. I also liked their humor about the "biffies" and other items. I got interested in narrow gauge modeling thanks to a series of articles in the Bullietin. The NMRA has done a lot to promote and set standards for the hobby. I let my membership lapse when the Bulletins started becoming a means to express political views, promote conventions, and showcase other people's modeling. While I believe that information about conventions and the recognition of master modelers and their achievements is important, I believe the Bulletins main enphasis should be on articles about modeling in all scales and gauges like they were in the past.

[ericboone]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan
Ultimately, the open standard (VHS) won but not because of any market power.

What are you talking about here? Because of the VHS standard, more companies made products, increasing the supply and variety of available compatable products. The consumer having increased choices is indeed a big market force. Increased supply also reduces price, which is another big market force. Market forces had everything to do with VHS dominating BETA.

[ericboone]

The original purpose of the NMRA was to facilitate standardization of equipment from multiple manufacturers. Now the industry has its own group, the Model Railroad Industry Association (www.mria.org). This group could easily and probably should take over developing and maintaining standards at no cost to the average modeler, except for the fraction of a penny in cost that may be added to each kit.

I was never much impressed with the magazine put out by the NMRA. (It has been may years since I've looked though.) The commercially available magazines are of a higher level of quality and subscriptions (MR is $40 / year) are less than NMRA annual dues ($45 / year). If you just looking for a good magazine, the NMRA is not the right place. Of course a magazine-less NMRA membership is $23, so I guess they figure the magazine is worth $22 a year.

The fellowship and advise is really better from online forums like this, local clubs, and other special interest groups (either affliated with the NMRA or not) like the multiple historical societies. I really learned more from the club I was a part of than anything. (Books and magazines are a close second.) I suppose the local NMRA groups are much like clubs (and often have their own dues) and could be very useful, but the national organization is really not necessary here.

After all this is said, is a magazine-less annual dues of $23 worth anything? Sure. $23 really is not that much. It is only about as much as one ready to run freight car.

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

QUOTE: Originally posted by rogerhensley

Then you haven't been paying attention, Wayne. I have been doing exactly that. I just have never seen any reason to tell you that I am the NMRA Webmaster. It shouldn't matter.

I never made the connection, Roger. As I said in an earlier post, the NMRA website has a wealth of information and it's good to know the resident webmaster is hanging out here. You're right, it shouldn't matter, but a little self-promotion couldn't hurt, I don't think.

As an FYI, since they first went up in December of 2001, the NMRA's 'Introduction to Model Railroading' pages ( http://www.nmra.org/beginner/ ) have always had a number of pages in the top 30 pages in usage every month and usage continues to climb. Those pages and the Standards and RP pages are on the web as a service to the hobby. They are created and maintained by volunteers. The Standards are created and revised by volunteers and voted by the membership who model in those particular scales before they become a Standard.

Now, you don't have to support our efforts to support the hobby. You can worry about what you get for your dues if you wish. I don't worry about it at all. When I was out of work after closing my business, the only contact that I maintained with the hobby was my membership in the NMRA, not MR or RMC or any other publication, because I knew that keeping the NMRA was important to model railroading. Nothing has changed about that. I still believe that 25 years after joining.

Some of our divisions are very active and are the heart of the NMRA for their members. The Central Indiana Division is one such. ( http://cid.railfan.net/ )They have always been self supporting and have never charged dues and never will. If you are an NMRA member living in the CID, you are a member of the CID. True, not all of the NMRA operates this way, but that is beginning to change.

I loved Whit Towers as editor of the NMRA Bulletin, but Whit is gone. The Biffy's are gone. This is a new century and the NMRA is changing and reorganizing. You don't have to be a part of it. That is your choice, and I'll stand by that. If you would like to help support the hobby with us, then you can join on-line. You will get as much out of it as you put into it. I can't say more than that.

BTW - I am now retired on a very fixed income, but I continue with the NMRA even as I drop a couple of Historical Societies and a magazine or two. My HO scale railroad and the NMRA are THAT important to me. Of course, your mileage may vary.

[MudHen_462]

I was into HO scale model RR'ing from the time I was 12 (1950) until my second tour in Viet Nam (1964). I was career Air Force, and I could see that flight crews were rotating back to VN about evey 18 to 24 months after returning to the States. I packed up my layout, and other than faithfully reading MR all those years, I was "in exile" from trains.

I recently retired for the second time, and have started back with a DCC layout.... and I decided to join NMRA. True, the price is high, but so is the cost of a magazine subscription now days.... but I can affiliate with a great NMRA Division ( "Turkey Creek" in Overland Park, KS.) and they have some pretty neat educational classes, so for the present, I think I stay a NMRA member.

Bob Hollowell / IronGoat

[Robert Langford]

I belonged to the NMRA back in the 60 s . The information back then was mailed to the members (before PCs were available. I felt I got my moneys worth in the information I recieved. I am now retired and on a fixed income, I'm sure glad I kept all my equipment, to start at todays prices, I could't afford to get into the hobby. I'm thankful for the NMRA for their standards, but cannot see the price of joining now.
BOB
Super of the SANDY SOUTHERN RAILWAY

[WickhamMan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by IRONROOSTER

Without standards, we would have multiple variations of Marklin. Different voltages, different forward/reverse, etc. The manufacturers usually only agree that their product should be the standard. If one manufacturer gets big enough he buries his competition and they go out of business.

Look at micro computers before IBM, there were many variations and software on one would not run on another. IBM stepped into this void and imposed a "standard" by their size. All the others went under except Apple (and it's only alive because Bill Gates bought part of it) Fortunately, IBM failed to lock up their technology and the clone makers arose. Microsott didn't make that mistake and thus there is one PC operating system, Windows, since MicroSoft eliminated the competition. With no clones for compettion, they now use monopoly pricing for their Windows operating system.

Congress created The National Institute of Standards and Technology because it's important and can't be left to the manufacturers.
Enjoy
Paul

Paul,

Those are great comments. As a PhD candidate at a Public Policy School specializing in Science and Technology Policy, I am particularly interested in how government (and quasi-governmental agencies like NMRA) affect technologies. It is certainly true that some nacent technologies benefit from having standards but in most historical cases, they do not. The IBM history you recite strays a little from what actually transpired. IBM started off using standardized parts that they did not create, including their operating system. It was an effort to move quickly and to ultimately help "cloners" to create a standard in a market they hoped to (and did for a time) dominate. In addition, IBM made sure the operating system they sold (PC-DOS) was "open" for others to write software for. This led to a standard that eventually marginalized Apple (who retained hardware and software technologies in-house). This is very similar to the BETAMAX vs. VHS standards for video tapes. Ultimately, the open standard (VHS) won but not because of any market power.

Throughout many industries, standards bodies (like NMRA, IEEE, etc.) are co-opted by industry leaders enacting rent seeking behaviors. They push standards in order to marginalize their competition. Superior technologies are left wanting becuase the market gravitates toward the more prevelant (and often inferior) standard.

I believe the standards argument for NMRA is a poor one. NMRA serves a much greater purpose as a focal point for "social capital". Without groups like NMRA, there is a great deal a synergistic value lost in many communities. Fortunately for us, we have a relatively free and often more useful avenue for creation of this type of capital and you are using it right now. Forums like this and others provide virtual communities for the creation of social capital that benefit both the individuals and the industries they habitate.

OK, I get off the soapbox now.

Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rogerhensley

Then you haven't been paying attention, Wayne. I have been doing exactly that. I just have never seen any reason to tell you that I am the NMRA Webmaster. It shouldn't matter.

I never made the connection, Roger. As I said in an earlier post, the NMRA website has a wealth of information and it's good to know the resident webmaster is hanging out here. You're right, it shouldn't matter, but a little self-promotion couldn't hurt, I don't think. An informal, yet visible presence of the NMRA here would keep the organization's name and resources in the minds of modelers, especially the many new modelers who join daily or oldtimers like me who return after a long haitus.

Wayne

[jfugate]

One of the biggest bennie's for me of the NMRA is the annual National Convention and Train Show.

That's a great week-long event of total immersion into model railroading and anything trains. I'm usually so pumped after going that I can run for about 6 months on the energy and ideas I get from attending the National Convention and Train Show.

I can't afford to go every year (need to spend *some* money on the layout now and then) but the convention travels around and when it's within a day or so's driving distance I'll usually attend.

That's one big item I appreciate about the NMRA, and a significant reason I'm a member.

[rogerhensley]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Muddy Creek

It would seem that an occasional reply to a typical "How do I...? question with a "The NMRA website has an article describing how to...." response would be both helpful and a simple & free promotion of their organization.

Then you haven't been paying attention, Wayne. I have been doing exactly that. I just have never seen any reason to tell you that I am the NMRA Webmaster. It shouldn't matter.

[Anonymous]

As a non-member, I'm wondering what the NMRA is doing to attract new members? I participate on a number of RR forums including this one & don't recall an NMRA official responding to any threads in a manner that would promote their resources & organization.

It would seem that an organization the size of the NMRA, especially one whose membership seems to be either dying off or jumping ship, would monitor the venues where their potential replacement members hang out. It would seem that an occasional reply to a typical "How do I...? question with a "The NMRA website has an article describing how to...." response would be both helpful and a simple & free promotion of their organization.

Wayne

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by potlatcher

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan

The winning technology sets the standard and others follow.

Instead I would offer the example of knuckle couplers. Kadee answered the weak NMRA standard "horn-hook" coupler with a better design and product. The market (us modelers) recognized the superiority of Kadee's products, and virtually nullifyied the NMRA standard. And, when Kadee's patent rights ran out, suddenly every manufacturer was either making them or applying the knock-offs to their models. Sure, there are sometimes minor incompatibilities between brands, but they can be dealt with pretty easily. My point is that the market can be just as strong a force for standards than the NMRA.

For your information there is no NMRA Coupler, the X2F design which you are talking about was never ratified by the membership as the NMRA approved coupler. The manufacturers selected that design as what they would put on their cars. Most modelers selected Kadee but some such as John Allen used Baker Couplers.

The NMRA is making a mistake by not having a beginning membership through divisions. When I belonged to Division 1 in the North Central Region you did not have to belong to the NMRA but many new people learned a lot from the meetings etc. One of the Divisions where I live now will not let you join the Division without being an NMRA member, I think this is a big mistake.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cjcrescent

WickhamMan;
The market will NOT set standards in model railroading. If you need proof, just look at the G-Gauge chaos. There are at least 7 scales, if not more, varying from 1:20.5, to 1:32 .5 all running on the same width track. The NMRA tried many years ago when G-gauge was in its infancy to get the manufacturers at ONE table to discuss standards/recommended practices, and was basically told by more than one maker to buzz off, because they were going to make their stuff how they wanted, no matter who was making what to what scale, period. So now you have LGB, Bachmann, making stuff to 1:20.5. Bachmann,(again), and another is also making it to 1:22.5, another well known maker is building to 1:29 and their biggest rival is building 1:32. There are others making stuff to all manner of inbetween scales between 1:32 and 1:20

FYI the NMRA didnt approach the large scale industry and say "We'd like to work with you and implement a set of standards for large scale modelers..." , Nope, instead they basiclly tried to impose their will and told the manufacturers "You WILL adopt these standards because we are the NMRA" to which they recieved the door slamming in their faces. Large Scale IS a bit of a mess, true, but we get around it, everything does run with everything else, even if a little tweaking is needed....but the way the NMRA went about it pissed off a lot of large scale modelers and manufacturers.

[Anonymous]

I have never joined this organization. I feel that it would be too "big" for my needs. So far the internet, ebay and local hobby stores has filled my hobby needs quite well.

Maybe someday when I am retired and everything paid off and just living out my days playing with trains I may get a membership.

[IRONROOSTER]

Without standards, we would have multiple variations of Marklin. Different voltages, different forward/reverse, etc. The manufacturers usually only agree that their product should be the standard. If one manufacturer gets big enough he buries his competition and they go out of business.

Look at micro computers before IBM, there were many variations and software on one would not run on another. IBM stepped into this void and imposed a "standard" by their size. All the others went under except Apple (and it's only alive because Bill Gates bought part of it) Fortunately, IBM failed to lock up their technology and the clone makers arose. Microsott didn't make that mistake and thus there is one PC operating system, Windows, since MicroSoft eliminated the competition. With no clones for compettion, they now use monopoly pricing for their Windows operating system.

In model railroading, I don't remember too many locos with decoders already installed before the NMRA DCC standards. Now there are decoder equipped locomotives and decoder ready locomotives that just require a plug in decoder (no wiring, isolating the motor from the frame, etc.). And they are coming down in cost.

I think that without the NMRA the hobby would be very limited and much more expensive.

Whether or not you join is up to you, but don't underestimate the importance of a standards organization. Congress created The National Institute of Standards and Technology because it's important and can't be left to the manufacturers.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FundyNorthern

QUOTE: Maybe instead of publishing Scale Rails, the NMRA could negotiate a members only discount on Model Railroader subscriptions. That would provide a real benefit!

As I noted in the first post and another person also mentioned, you can belong to the NMRA without getting the Scale Rails newsletter. When the dues when up several years ago, the full price for me was around $53.00 in Canadian dollars. Now without the more or less useless Scale Rails, it costs me around $32.00 Canadian. And I'm not missing anything!

Wow, have I ever been outta touch - I NEVER realized that Scale Rails was an 'option' that increased my annual dues, I figured it was simply the National newsletter and everybody got it[%-)]. My eyes have been opened - I'll stay in the NMRA but specify a no-frills membership when renewal time comes around.

[selector]

I agree with locomotive3's terse reply above. But it bespeaks a more important artifact of evolution over time. As the demographics of society change, so will its mores, values, pursuits, vices, and so on. Gone are the days (at least, here in Canada) of the Elks, Masons, Shriners, etc. Just as in the churches, the members are all elderly.

Young people today don't like cohesive, organized memberships where someone is telling them what to do. They prefer a more nomadic, spontaneous association, something informal. Paying dues to an entitiy like the NMRA is almost anathema to them.

I beleive that therein lies your problem.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Maybe instead of publishing Scale Rails, the NMRA could negotiate a members only discount on Model Railroader subscriptions. That would provide a real benefit!

As I noted in the first post and another person also mentioned, you can belong to the NMRA without getting the Scale Rails newsletter. When the dues when up several years ago, the full price for me was around $53.00 in Canadian dollars. Now without the more or less useless Scale Rails, it costs me around $32.00 Canadian. And I'm not missing anything!

Bob Boudreau

[potlatcher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by WickhamMan

The winning technology sets the standard and others follow.

I agree with the argument that standards are useful, but not necessary. Someone mentioned the G gauge/scale debacle as a counter to this point of view, but most G manufacturers are targeting a different audience than scale model railroaders, so I'm not sure this example applies.

Instead I would offer the example of knuckle couplers. Kadee answered the weak NMRA standard "horn-hook" coupler with a better design and product. The market (us modelers) recognized the superiority of Kadee's products, and virtually nullifyied the NMRA standard. And, when Kadee's patent rights ran out, suddenly every manufacturer was either making them or applying the knock-offs to their models. Sure, there are sometimes minor incompatibilities between brands, but they can be dealt with pretty easily. My point is that the market can be just as strong a force for standards than the NMRA.

In the end, the manufacturers benefit just as much as the modelers from conforming to standards. If a manufacturer does not conform to recognized (either NMRA- or market-driven) standards, he is at a disadvantage for selling his product and will not make as much money. If the NMRA could share some of the costs for setting and maintaining standards with the MRIA, for instance, the cost of NMRA membership could be lowered to attract and retain more members.

I also feel that the NMRA is weak in terms of the benefits it provides members. I joined to attend the national convention in Seattle last summer. As with others on this topic, I was disappointed that so many of the activities carried an "extra fare" price tag. I did attend a few good clinics, but many of them were repeats of articles already published in Model Railroader. I don't feel I came away as a better modeler because of my convention attendance. I only had $300 available to spend on the convention - $155 for registration fees and membership, and the rest for two nights lodging (that's all I could afford so that's how long I stayed). In retrospect, I would have received greater benefits by driving to Seattle just for the National Train Show, paying the $10 entrance fee, then spending the other $290 on stuff for my layout.

I have also been thoroughly unimpressed with Scale Rails. So far there have been no articles teaching me things I haven't already learned from Model Railroader - several years before. If I do stay with the NMRA, there is no way I will waste my money on full NMRA membership that includes Scale Rails. Maybe instead of publishing Scale Rails, the NMRA could negotiate a members only discount on Model Railroader subscriptions. That would provide a real benefit!

Times are tight for most of us. With a wife and four growing children, I barely have the time, much less the money, to keep making progress on my layout. I need to get a big return on every hobby investment I make, otherwise I just can't afford it. I know it sounds mercenary to many, but I don't think the NMRA will survive much longer if it doesn't start giving its members more bang for their bucks.

I plan to attend part of a regional convention this summer to give the NMRA one more chance. If things don't seem any better on the local level, I'll just let my membership lapse.

[cjcrescent]

WickhamMan;
The market will NOT set standards in model railroading. If you need proof, just look at the G-Gauge chaos. There are at least 7 scales, if not more, varying from 1:20.5, to 1:32 .5 all running on the same width track. The NMRA tried many years ago when G-gauge was in its infancy to get the manufacturers at ONE table to discuss standards/recommended practices, and was basically told by more than one maker to buzz off, because they were going to make their stuff how they wanted, no matter who was making what to what scale, period. So now you have LGB, Bachmann, making stuff to 1:20.5. Bachmann,(again), and another is also making it to 1:22.5, another well known maker is building to 1:29 and their biggest rival is building 1:32. There are others making stuff to all manner of inbetween scales between 1:32 and 1:20

Jon;
The NMRA already does alot of what you just mentioned. Thru another company, which I'm sure the AMA does as I don't think they provide their own insurance, the NMRA sponsers property insurance for your models, as well as liability insurance for individuals and clubs that are 100% NMRA clubs, all at very reasonable cost. The NMRA also provides estate counseling for after you're gone. Granted, the NMRA hasn't had to testify before Congress or the FAA, in our case the FRA, because someone may be in danger of being hit by one of our models while they were out on a picnic or playing on a public field. And if you don't want to take the magazine, the NMRA only costs $23.00 a year.

And as it was said in an earlier post;

QUOTE: Originally posted by cmrproducts

It is the local Divisions that make the NMRA not the National. If everyone could grasp this concept then the NMRA would be one of the biggest MRR organizations...

What I am trying to get at here is you, the individual, makes the NMRA not the NMRA doing things for you! If you get into the Divisions then the rest just comes naturally.

BOB H Clarion, PA

I also thought, what can the NMRA do for me?? I started finding out by going to local meets and if I lived awhile in an area where there weren't many modelers or in an active division, I would start my own group. I live now in a division that has put on five regional conventions and hosted one National in the past twenty years, and I have had more fun helping on each and every one. I am also active with the contest and achievement programs in my region. I would have to say I have learned more techniques, how toos, and just downright good stuff working these two departments in the past twenty five years than in all of the how to articles in all the publications over the last forty.

But the people I've met from all over the world, including those who are now lifelong friends, via the NMRA, I know is the best part of "what can the NMRA do for me?".

[chutton01]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gvdobler

I also belong to the AMA (Aircraft Modelers Assc. They provide insurance for each member against liability (models are going 200 plus real mph and weigh up to 50 lbs) and flying site protection. Everyone wants to shut us down.

Who wants to shut you down? Model Airplanes are a very interesting hobby (not my focus, but I enjoyed heading down to the Aerodrome at Cedar Creek Park in Nassau to see these (very large) babies fly.

Back to the NMRA - I have always wondered what they offered to their members, and right now it seems the National offers very little. The governing structure always seemed a bit vague and chaotic to me, although I'm sure it could be followed if need by.
Anyway, people keep talking about lone wolf modelers - but nowadays through the Web, are there truely any such animals about? I don't belong to a club or the NMRA, but I certain communicate and chat with like minded modelers on this and other boards. Hardly a loner, more of a loud-mouth... Kinda like the 'virtual' associations and communities that the Experts and Media Kings went on about in 1997, albiet some years later and in different form...

[gvdobler]

What service do they provide to the membership?

I belong to the AOPA (Aircraft Owner's & Pilots Assc) They provide legal service, airfield protection from closing, medical advice and help for pilots and a host of other things. All for about a $100 a year.

I also belong to the AMA (Aircraft Modelers Assc. They provide insurance for each member against liability (models are going 200 plus real mph and weigh up to 50 lbs) and flying site protection. Everyone wants to shut us down. They provide a long list of services and a Nationals contest annually, all for about $100 a year.

Both organizations are in Congress and the FAA constantly to protect members rights and see that no one takes away our right to fly.

These are tangible things worth money. Perhaps NMRA could look at ways to provide something more for members in exchange for the dues.

Jon - Las Vegas

[WickhamMan]

I'm not sure I buy the "standards" argument as a benefit for NMRA's existence. There are hundreds (maybe thousands) of technical fields that don't have a standardizing body. Computers and software development tools spring to mind. These are incredibly fast moving industries (compared to model rr) and they have no real standardizing body. The winning technology sets the standard and others follow. Without NMRA, I think we would likely see the same result. The "meets NMRA standards" tag on a product is mostly marketing. There would still be standards but the market would set them (as they already likely do).

My $.02

[FRITSCHSR]

Just look at this way, cost of membership = 2 RTR cars. I think I can do without
2 cars a year if it will help keep the NMRA alive and well to help keep all the
standards for all current and any future technological advances the hobby may
take. Just my 2 pennies worth.

[Anonymous]

I support the NMRA and probably always will.

It seems that the national leadership should get its act toghether. There is a perception among members out there that these guys are getting a lot of perks at the general memberships' expense. I am not stating this as a fact and I am not in a position to know what the facts are, but the perception is commonly held among the NMRA guys I know. I think that they need to do something about this perception and perhaps restructure the rates and budget to reflect a more frugal approach.

I think the NMRA has done an enormous amount for the hobby and I find that most of the members I meet are great guys. I hosted a layout on the San Jose 2000 National Convention and it was an experience I will never forget. Busloads of trainnuts coming to my house to see what I had done. How cool is that:? I had a great time and had a blast meeting members and talking trains. I also met most of the train guys I know through the NMRA.

I hope that they can turn things around.

[mecovey]

I started to write this several days ago but didn't want to just write something negative without any useful purpose. After seeing this thread it's somewhat comforting to find I'm not alone in the way I view the NMRA.

I have belonged twice - once so that I could go to the 1974 convention in Chicago and again in 1985 to attend the Milwaukee convention. I allowed my membership to lapse both times... the first time because of interminable childish arguments about "biffies" and the second time because there didn't seem to be much value.

The NMRA is a great organization that has and continues to be a valuable resource to the hobby particulary in the area of standards -I'm glad my trains will run on somebody else's track and I can take my DCC throttle to another layout and the hardware still works. Many thanks to the volunteers who work long hours to provide the standards that make this possible. I am not trying to ba***he NMRA.

I asked my wife if she would be interested in going to the convention this year and since she was amenable, I looked at the website to see what it would cost. Wow talk about sticker shock!

After I join the organization, pay the entry fee, pay my wife's entry fee, sign up and pay for layout tours (the real reason I want to go), pay for non rail activities, pay for the "rubber chicken" banquet for the two of us, pay for hotel for 5 nights, food for 5 or 6 days, gas from Illinois to Cincinnati and any incidentals from the company store I figure I can stay home and buy a 42" plazma TV for the same money and look at railroad tapes.

It appears to me the "good 'ol boys" who run the NMRA have priced themselves out of the convention market as well as the organization itself. Done correctly, these things ought to pull thousands of people many of whom are new... but not at these prices. I know the trade show attracts a lot of the "great unwashed" but how about finding a way to get them involved in the clinics and tours. The inspiration from going to some of the best layouts in the country couldn't help but spur newbies (and some of us oldies) to get involved in building a railroad.

[IRONROOSTER]

I agree that the standards are important. It is probably the main reason I have stayed a member as the dues have gone up. I have been to a couple of division meets and hope to get to some more in the future and I also enjoy the Heritage and Living Legends cars. The Bulletin's heyday was under Whit Towers. It was different from the commercial press and offered a lot of features not otherwise found. The current Scale Rails is not the same - I read it every month, but it's not my favorite. Also, I think the NMRA site on the WEB does a real service to the model railroading community.
Enjoy
Paul
NMRA 024602

[Big_Boy_4005]

I must say, that the standards we all enjoy today, didn't happen by magic. They are the results of a few hard working individuals who gave their time, over the last 70 years, to better our hobby. So even if you take the "what's in it for me?" position regarding membership, deep down the answer is A LOT. This organization writes the rules that the manufacturers play by when designing trains. Could you imagine the chaos without those standards?