QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy QUOTE: Originally posted by mktrains Watch out for silicone. Subsequent glue (e.g., for ballast) and paint won't stick to it. Latex is more friendly for other things on top of that. Wrong. I've got 100 feet of track laid on my second level, using nothing but silicone caulk. My ballast is holding to it just fine. Of course, I let the silicone offgass for well over a month before I actually added ballast.
QUOTE: Originally posted by mktrains Watch out for silicone. Subsequent glue (e.g., for ballast) and paint won't stick to it. Latex is more friendly for other things on top of that.
QUOTE: Originally posted by yankeejwb Well, in your opinion, do you think the method I described will hold up?
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
QUOTE: Originally posted by yankeejwb Was it the kind of tape that looks like tiny fishnetting when you peel off the backing?
QUOTE: I would think that the ballast, being held with bonding agent, would keep the track from coming up if the tape did happen to come loose. That was why I only put a thin strip down the middle of the roadbed, in case that very thing occurred. I figured there was still enough exposed surface on the roadbed to provide adequate bonding surface for the ballast. Is this how you did it on your module?
Unfortunately, gravity and humidity attacked the tape, and within a month the track was popping up all over. Using a heat gun to "activate" the adhesive on the tape didn't work either: it either did nothing, or the glue bubbled through the ballast. Needless to say, I'm against the use of tapes to lay track. Was it the kind of tape that looks like tiny fishnetting when you peel off the backing? I would think that the ballast, being held with bonding agent, would keep the track from coming up if the tape did happen to come loose. That was why I only put a thin strip down the middle of the roadbed, in case that very thing occurred. I figured there was still enough exposed surface on the roadbed to provide adequate bonding surface for the ballast. Is this how you did it on your module? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 10:21 AM Watch out for silicone. Subsequent glue (e.g., for ballast) and paint won't stick to it. Latex is more friendly for other things on top of that. Reply Edit simon1966 Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Metro East St. Louis 5,743 posts Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:51 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon, Topper tape is single sided foam tape. You still have to use some sort of adhesive to affix the track. The author of the MR article used caulk. Yep, you are correct. My own approach was the really thin layer of Liquid Nails spread over the cork roadbed. Most of my flextrack has been down for over a year with no problems at all. The track is easy to remove with a thin spreader run under the track. Just don't use it to attatch the cork to the base if you use foam. Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum Reply orsonroy Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Elgin, IL 3,677 posts Posted by orsonroy on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:42 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. John's idea is similar to mine: I use gray latex caulk. It's less smelly than the silicon stuff, and it's roughly the same color as the ballast, so it's easy to cover up. And like John says, if you need to make any changes (or repairs), a putty knife will pull up the track without too much pain! Joe, I used silicone caulk on my second level, and am currently using latex caulk for my third. They both work well, but I'm now leaning towards latex. The Silicone caulk actually works a bit better than latex, holds better, works better, goes further, and absorbs noise better, but the latex caulk is less expensive, easier to clean up, and doesn't smell as bad. And you're right, it's easier to remove if you have to (silicone won't let go of track!) Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 Reply orsonroy Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Elgin, IL 3,677 posts Posted by orsonroy on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:40 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon, Topper tape is single sided foam tape. You still have to use some sort of adhesive to affix the track. The author of the MR article used caulk. Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:35 AM I am in the process of building my first layout, and I've been using track nails. In situations where hammering is: a) causing to much noise...like after the kids are tucked in, or b) my normally patient wife has had a bad day at the office, or c) everything on the benchwork is bouncing all over the place, I use my square tipped pliers to pu***he nails in. It's quiet, non-disruptive, and effective. I had to redo my small yard three times, due to some rookie mistakes which were discovered when I test ran my engine on the track so I think I can feel for how painful it is to redo/alter trackage. As for double sided tape...I have never seen an application of double sided tape that was of any longlasting use or reliablility. Even on carpets! Trevor [:)] Reply Edit simon1966 Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Metro East St. Louis 5,743 posts Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:15 AM Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum Reply FThunder11 Member sinceJune 2003 From: Colorado Springs 728 posts Posted by FThunder11 on Monday, February 7, 2005 8:04 PM I use microengineering so it stays the way you curve it! Kevin Farlow Colorado Springs Reply jfugate Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Portland, OR 3,119 posts Posted by jfugate on Monday, February 7, 2005 7:13 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. John's idea is similar to mine: I use gray latex caulk. It's less smelly than the silicon stuff, and it's roughly the same color as the ballast, so it's easy to cover up. And like John says, if you need to make any changes (or repairs), a putty knife will pull up the track without too much pain! Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 7, 2005 6:11 PM Yeah. Reminds ya' of that really long time ago Bob Newhart standup comedy routine about the flight to Hawaii: Welcome aboard the Grace L. Ferguson Airline and Storm Door Company! Actually, you'd think tape would work for track, but humidity can mess up duct tape pretty quickly. Reply Edit darkstar974 Member sinceJanuary 2005 From: Youngstown, Ohio 102 posts Posted by darkstar974 on Monday, February 7, 2005 6:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy [br. Now, there IS one tape that WILL work. 3M makes a double sided tape that's used to laminate aircraft skin to the body (didn't know that stuff was TAPED on, did ya?). That 3M tape will hold ANYTHING. Unfortunately for us modelers, the stuff is only available in 1000-foot rolls, and is Uber-expensive. Boy really makes want to fly in an airplane now! Dark trains, trains, trains I love trains Reply grayfox1119 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Cherry Valley, Ma 3,674 posts Posted by grayfox1119 on Monday, February 7, 2005 5:12 PM Silicone adhesive caulk sounds like the way to go !! Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119 Reply orsonroy Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Elgin, IL 3,677 posts Posted by orsonroy on Monday, February 7, 2005 4:32 PM I tried double sided carpet tape by two different manufacturers (Duck and 3M). Neither works. Oh sure, it worked for awhile, and I was pretty careful about applying it for my test (a Ntrak module). I made sure the foam surface was clean and dry, I applied the first layer of tape, rolled it down with a wallpaper roller, added the track, and rolled the track. I then ballasted. For the first couple of weeks, it was great, and gave me the most realistic N scale ballasting job I've ever seen. Unfortunately, gravity and humidity attacked the tape, and within a month the track was popping up all over. Using a heat gun to "activate" the adhesive on the tape didn't work either: it either did nothing, or the glue bubbled through the ballast. Needless to say, I'm against the use of tapes to lay track. Now, there IS one tape that WILL work. 3M makes a double sided tape that's used to laminate aircraft skin to the body (didn't know that stuff was TAPED on, did ya?). That 3M tape will hold ANYTHING. Unfortunately for us modelers, the stuff is only available in 1000-foot rolls, and is Uber-expensive. Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 Reply johncolley Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: PtTownsendWA 1,445 posts Posted by johncolley on Monday, February 7, 2005 4:08 PM I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. jc5729 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts A handy idea for track laying Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 7, 2005 10:55 AM I've recently added a couple spurs on my layout that required rearranging a good bit of trackage. Thing is, I hate trying to nail track down on an existing layout because the banging rattles everything (and I'm too lazy to take all the stuff off the table top). Glue is kinda messy and takes a while to set, so I didn't like that idea. Then I discovered a really great way to hold track down very securely (even curved flex track) without nails or glue: double sided carpet tape. You can take your time, it holds the track as soon as you put it down, and it has a really strong grip so curved flex track won't move on ya while you're applying the ballast. Duck brand works good. It's very thin, but a bit wide (for HO), so you have to cut the strips in half lengthwise. Just wondering if anyone else has heard of using this stuff for this application. Any other unusual shortcuts would be great. Reply Edit Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
Was it the kind of tape that looks like tiny fishnetting when you peel off the backing? I would think that the ballast, being held with bonding agent, would keep the track from coming up if the tape did happen to come loose. That was why I only put a thin strip down the middle of the roadbed, in case that very thing occurred. I figured there was still enough exposed surface on the roadbed to provide adequate bonding surface for the ballast. Is this how you did it on your module? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 10:21 AM Watch out for silicone. Subsequent glue (e.g., for ballast) and paint won't stick to it. Latex is more friendly for other things on top of that. Reply Edit simon1966 Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Metro East St. Louis 5,743 posts Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:51 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon, Topper tape is single sided foam tape. You still have to use some sort of adhesive to affix the track. The author of the MR article used caulk. Yep, you are correct. My own approach was the really thin layer of Liquid Nails spread over the cork roadbed. Most of my flextrack has been down for over a year with no problems at all. The track is easy to remove with a thin spreader run under the track. Just don't use it to attatch the cork to the base if you use foam. Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum Reply orsonroy Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Elgin, IL 3,677 posts Posted by orsonroy on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:42 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. John's idea is similar to mine: I use gray latex caulk. It's less smelly than the silicon stuff, and it's roughly the same color as the ballast, so it's easy to cover up. And like John says, if you need to make any changes (or repairs), a putty knife will pull up the track without too much pain! Joe, I used silicone caulk on my second level, and am currently using latex caulk for my third. They both work well, but I'm now leaning towards latex. The Silicone caulk actually works a bit better than latex, holds better, works better, goes further, and absorbs noise better, but the latex caulk is less expensive, easier to clean up, and doesn't smell as bad. And you're right, it's easier to remove if you have to (silicone won't let go of track!) Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 Reply orsonroy Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Elgin, IL 3,677 posts Posted by orsonroy on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:40 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon, Topper tape is single sided foam tape. You still have to use some sort of adhesive to affix the track. The author of the MR article used caulk. Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:35 AM I am in the process of building my first layout, and I've been using track nails. In situations where hammering is: a) causing to much noise...like after the kids are tucked in, or b) my normally patient wife has had a bad day at the office, or c) everything on the benchwork is bouncing all over the place, I use my square tipped pliers to pu***he nails in. It's quiet, non-disruptive, and effective. I had to redo my small yard three times, due to some rookie mistakes which were discovered when I test ran my engine on the track so I think I can feel for how painful it is to redo/alter trackage. As for double sided tape...I have never seen an application of double sided tape that was of any longlasting use or reliablility. Even on carpets! Trevor [:)] Reply Edit simon1966 Member sinceJuly 2003 From: Metro East St. Louis 5,743 posts Posted by simon1966 on Tuesday, February 8, 2005 8:15 AM Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum Reply FThunder11 Member sinceJune 2003 From: Colorado Springs 728 posts Posted by FThunder11 on Monday, February 7, 2005 8:04 PM I use microengineering so it stays the way you curve it! Kevin Farlow Colorado Springs Reply jfugate Member sinceJanuary 2002 From: Portland, OR 3,119 posts Posted by jfugate on Monday, February 7, 2005 7:13 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. John's idea is similar to mine: I use gray latex caulk. It's less smelly than the silicon stuff, and it's roughly the same color as the ballast, so it's easy to cover up. And like John says, if you need to make any changes (or repairs), a putty knife will pull up the track without too much pain! Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 7, 2005 6:11 PM Yeah. Reminds ya' of that really long time ago Bob Newhart standup comedy routine about the flight to Hawaii: Welcome aboard the Grace L. Ferguson Airline and Storm Door Company! Actually, you'd think tape would work for track, but humidity can mess up duct tape pretty quickly. Reply Edit darkstar974 Member sinceJanuary 2005 From: Youngstown, Ohio 102 posts Posted by darkstar974 on Monday, February 7, 2005 6:00 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy [br. Now, there IS one tape that WILL work. 3M makes a double sided tape that's used to laminate aircraft skin to the body (didn't know that stuff was TAPED on, did ya?). That 3M tape will hold ANYTHING. Unfortunately for us modelers, the stuff is only available in 1000-foot rolls, and is Uber-expensive. Boy really makes want to fly in an airplane now! Dark trains, trains, trains I love trains Reply grayfox1119 Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Cherry Valley, Ma 3,674 posts Posted by grayfox1119 on Monday, February 7, 2005 5:12 PM Silicone adhesive caulk sounds like the way to go !! Dick If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got!! Learn from the mistakes of others, trust me........you can't live long enough to make all the mistakes yourself, I tried !! Picture album at :http://www.railimages.com/gallery/dickjubinville Picture album at:http://community.webshots.com/user/dickj19 local weather www.weatherlink.com/user/grayfox1119 Reply orsonroy Member sinceMarch 2002 From: Elgin, IL 3,677 posts Posted by orsonroy on Monday, February 7, 2005 4:32 PM I tried double sided carpet tape by two different manufacturers (Duck and 3M). Neither works. Oh sure, it worked for awhile, and I was pretty careful about applying it for my test (a Ntrak module). I made sure the foam surface was clean and dry, I applied the first layer of tape, rolled it down with a wallpaper roller, added the track, and rolled the track. I then ballasted. For the first couple of weeks, it was great, and gave me the most realistic N scale ballasting job I've ever seen. Unfortunately, gravity and humidity attacked the tape, and within a month the track was popping up all over. Using a heat gun to "activate" the adhesive on the tape didn't work either: it either did nothing, or the glue bubbled through the ballast. Needless to say, I'm against the use of tapes to lay track. Now, there IS one tape that WILL work. 3M makes a double sided tape that's used to laminate aircraft skin to the body (didn't know that stuff was TAPED on, did ya?). That 3M tape will hold ANYTHING. Unfortunately for us modelers, the stuff is only available in 1000-foot rolls, and is Uber-expensive. Ray Breyer Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943 Reply johncolley Member sinceFebruary 2002 From: PtTownsendWA 1,445 posts Posted by johncolley on Monday, February 7, 2005 4:08 PM I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. jc5729 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts A handy idea for track laying Posted by Anonymous on Monday, February 7, 2005 10:55 AM I've recently added a couple spurs on my layout that required rearranging a good bit of trackage. Thing is, I hate trying to nail track down on an existing layout because the banging rattles everything (and I'm too lazy to take all the stuff off the table top). Glue is kinda messy and takes a while to set, so I didn't like that idea. Then I discovered a really great way to hold track down very securely (even curved flex track) without nails or glue: double sided carpet tape. You can take your time, it holds the track as soon as you put it down, and it has a really strong grip so curved flex track won't move on ya while you're applying the ballast. Duck brand works good. It's very thin, but a bit wide (for HO), so you have to cut the strips in half lengthwise. Just wondering if anyone else has heard of using this stuff for this application. Any other unusual shortcuts would be great. Reply Edit Subscriber & Member Login Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more! Login Register Users Online There are no community member online Search the Community ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT ADVERTISEMENT Model Railroader Newsletter See all Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox! Sign up
QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp Simon, Topper tape is single sided foam tape. You still have to use some sort of adhesive to affix the track. The author of the MR article used caulk.
QUOTE: Originally posted by simon1966 Didn't Model RR have an article about using "Topper Tape" or some such name. I think it was a double sided tape used with truck tops in some way? Yes, here is the link to the articel on the MRR web site http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/004/379dcjrm.asp
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well. John's idea is similar to mine: I use gray latex caulk. It's less smelly than the silicon stuff, and it's roughly the same color as the ballast, so it's easy to cover up. And like John says, if you need to make any changes (or repairs), a putty knife will pull up the track without too much pain!
QUOTE: Originally posted by johncolley I use clear silicone adhesive calk and it is great! I allows you to move things easily if you need to change later, and holds well.
Joe Fugate Modeling the 1980s SP Siskiyou Line in southern Oregon
QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy [br. Now, there IS one tape that WILL work. 3M makes a double sided tape that's used to laminate aircraft skin to the body (didn't know that stuff was TAPED on, did ya?). That 3M tape will hold ANYTHING. Unfortunately for us modelers, the stuff is only available in 1000-foot rolls, and is Uber-expensive.