Ordered a bunch of stuff from Train World, one item was defective from the get go. Said OK, will send defective item back, they said in there paperwork to ship it to vendor as first resort. So I finally did all the things needed to ship back to Bachmann but cost of shipping is like $17 when item is only $99. Kinda at point that there are a few hazards to online stuff. Now been buying from them for over 20 years and this is the first time with a problem.
I've had a few disapointments. The way I see it, the savings I got from online shopping in the last 15 years compensate largely for the few bad experiences I've had.
Simon
I think you should reach out to them and have them send you a return label to ship it back to them. If not, I would dispute the entire charge with the credit card company. Despite them telling you to reach out to the manufacturer, shipping charges are very high for the consumer. If you dispute it, I am sure it will get their attention. The very least give you a credit for the shipping.
A standard scam manufacturers use is to put a notice in the packaging saying DO NOT RETURN THIS PRODUCT TO THE STORE -- call our customer service or return for warranty instead.
Do not fall for any version of this scam.
Any time I have ever tried it, I have gotten lies, runarounds, and extra proposed costs (not counting my time).
Send it back or have the shipper file insurance if received defective, and do not buy from suppliers that restrict defective returns.
This is the one great cost of purchasing on line vs. the LHS. On probability, one is not likely to get a defective item, all things being equal. So, most of us have accepted that we save a few bucks and we incur greater risk of receiving something we can't use and that we must pay to ship back...somewhere.
I have probably returned, or eventually sold to get rid of, five items for one reason or another. I had to pay the shipping to acquire them, and the one engine I sold ended up costing me just a bit more than shipping to me when all was said and done. It was a Bachmann Class J 4-8-4 that never ran well.
The others went back to BLI for warranty or my-cost-repairs. I can't recall, but I'd bet its north of $300 by now. But I can tell you that I'm still way ahead, with on line purchases of over 20 locomotives to date, over what It would have cost me to purchase at local hobby shops where their prices are non-negotiable and inflated by close to 20%.
Oh it is still a bargin but it was an item I was eyeing and should have skipped seeing the outcome. I guess we shall see.
I have the opposite problem, I find PWRS has high prices but the fact I can pick the stuff up and save on shipping comes into play.
Anytime I have to send stuff back I always ask for a shipping label. More often than not I get it, sometimes I don't. When I have been turned down I ask if they will provide me with a label at my expense and charge me for it. Commercial shippers get a much-reduced rate than the over-the-counter public gets so it is worth pursuing with the company.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Well, it doesn't matter if you bought it from an LHS, an online dealer, or directly from the producer. If there are no spare parts to fix it, you just wasted your money either way.
- Douglas
OK, I know shipping costs are up but $17 seems steep. What carrier? What service? Maybe not?
Bachmann will repair or replace it, and return it at no additional cost.
They do have some parts, and, when they replace a dud, they save the duds for other useable parts. So even parts not shown on their web site might be available for a warranty repair.
$99 from TrainWorld so it is something with a $150 MSRP?
In 50 years at this, bought in a store or online, my dud rate has been so low I just do whatever it takes within reason to get a repair or replacement.
Over the years Bachmann has been pretty good to deal with.
Broadway, not so much.
Athearn, Bowser, Intermountain, Walthers all great to the limit of parts and/or replacement product they had available.
Sheldon
selector The others went back to BLI for warranty or my-cost-repairs. I can't recall, but I'd bet its north of $300 by now. But I can tell you that I'm still way ahead, with on line purchases of over 20 locomotives to date, over what It would have cost me to purchase at local hobby shops where their prices are non-negotiable and inflated by close to 20%.
You have this backwards. The LHS price is not "inflated", which implies excessive profit.
Based on their costs to aquire the product, and provide the services they provide, it is amazing any of these shops can stay in business these days.
The discounters have eliminated the middle man and eliminated a lot of the "services" to provide their super low prices.
Many brick and mortar stores have eliminated the middle man as well, but still provide the traditional services, while still offering some level of discount pricing.
Now you might not need those services, and you might be willing to take the risks of not having those services, but "inflated" was a poor choice of words there.
As for negotiable prices?, I hope we never devolve into a culture where every trip to the store for every little thing is an exercise in horse trading.
I too shop where the deals are good, but fully understanding what I am not paying for.........
There is thread going on right now that started about domestic vs overseas production. Dealer purchase discounts are now the topic, I will not repeat what I have posted there.
Perhaps annoying, but have you called the vendor to explain the issue? The problem is there's to solve. They might do good by sending you a shipping label or a replacement item. Vendors know that their reputation is made (or destroyed) often through reviews.
ATLANTIC CENTRALOK, I know shipping costs are up but $17 seems steep. What carrier? What service? Maybe not?
There is another thread about a defective NCE powercab. The OP is in Canada and he said postage is $20-25 and a brokerage fee (I assume to get it home) of $40-60
China subsidizes postage, at least what I have ordered off Ebay, never costs more than $1 postage. The USPS is a quasi government agency that sell bonds to the government on which it defaults on. Post pandemic service is still poor. At 5:30 tonight, my mail carrier is still delivering in my neighborhood and I received mail that was supposed to arrive Friday and Saturday
Ebay has a deal with the Post Office and you can send things you sell cheaper if you buy postage from Ebay that from the po. Amazon has a deal with everyone which makes Prime more than worthwhile.
Regular citizens don't get that deal. Citizens of Canada, since I don't understand their system, I can't really comment, but paying $80 to send and receive you own Powercab is excessive. That is a country problem not a company problem.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, I know shipping costs are up but $17 seems steep. What carrier? What service? Maybe not? There is another thread about a defective NCE powercab. The OP is in Canada and he said postage is $20-25 and a brokerage fee (I assume to get it home) of $40-60
ATLANTIC CENTRAL OK, I know shipping costs are up but $17 seems steep. What carrier? What service? Maybe not?
Rich
Alton Junction
richhotrainI just told him to move to the U.S.
Don't we already have enough complainers?
BigDaddyChina subsidizes postage
Chinas' mail is heavily subsidized but not by who you would think. If I say more my hair will burst into flame.
Universal Postal Union:
https://www.upu.int/en/Universal-Postal-Union
Much of the China > N.A. shipping is through the 2011 ePacket agreement.
Regards, Ed
Bingo. I was in and out of the retail hobby business from mid 1980s to 2006 when my health crashed bigtime and my working days ended.
I have little experience with internet retail, but that bit quoted below, yep.
At the time I was in retail we didn't have the sales volume of hundreds of an item to order direct from manufacturers, assuming they sold direct to retailers.
Wholesale price for most everything hobby, model kits, paints, trains, was typically 40% off MSRP no matter which distributors.
Except Lionel trains, their wholesale price was 20% off MSRP.
What came out of what we sold a thing for was: the money to pay for it or another one to sell - so there goes 60% of the selling price right there.
From the remaining 40% was taken; money for the costs of the physical store, lease, utilities, et cetera; money for wages of store employees; owners took varying amounts to pay their morgtage and groceries, at one store they had other income so they took only 10% of the selling price; money was taken out of the selling price to save up to have enough to buy product for the Christman surge; and probably other stuff which I am forgetting.
And at one franchise I worked for, the owners marked most everything at 5% below MSRP because shop was not on the really wealthy side of town.
As well as MSRP there was sometimes a "street price" which was lower than MSRP and was the customary selling price.
ATLANTIC CENTRALYou have this backwards. The LHS price is not "inflated", which implies excessive profit. Based on their costs to aquire the product, and provide the services they provide, it is amazing any of these shops can stay in business these days. The discounters have eliminated the middle man and eliminated a lot of the "services" to provide their super low prices. Many brick and mortar stores have eliminated the middle man as well, but still provide the traditional services, while still offering some level of discount pricing.
Hello All,
Most of my motive power is made by Bachmann; both diesel and steam.
The quality of some of these have been less than acceptable- -even new out-of-the-box units.
I always fill out the registration card and send it back to Bachmann as soon as I receive the unit.
For out-of-warranty locomotives, Bachmann charges a flat $45.00 fee, and you still have to pay the shipping to them.
Repairs that are "in-warranty" are covered for no charge other than the cost of shipping to them.
In both cases, Bachmann covered the return shipping cost.
I had a problematic USRA 0-6-0 w/DCC & smoke. I bought it used so it was out-of-warranty.
The first time I sent it in I was charged the standard $45.00. It ran well for a short time and then developed another problem.
I sent it back to Bachmann for a second time.
The factory technician called me and said the problem was "terminal".
Unfortunately, they were out of that particular livery (paint scheme).
He offered to send a new-in-box replacement with a different livery, retail $175.00. Because I had already paid the $45.00 out-of-warranty fee there would be no charge.
Yes, I had to pay shipping- -twice- -back to Bachmann but in the end, I got a brand new unit.
Hope this helps.
"Uhh...I didn’t know it was 'impossible' I just made it work...sorry"
One reason is because Bachmann tends to produce the same product over and over again for years, up to decades. They obviously have different runs, but also are not coming up with new versions of the same loco, with different details, or different obscure locos every year or two. Their cost per unit produced is probably very low compared to most compaies.
Just out of curiosity, what is the $99 'defective' item, and what is the problem with it? It might be something someone else has encountered and found a simple solution to.
If new and defective out of box, I would contact the place you purchased it from.
They should be willing to help, or even exchange if possible. (Responsible, reputable places will.)
If used (as is, was is, yours is) then maybe see about parts. If it is easy enough to fix, parts only might be cheaper. Otherswise, is shipping fee to manufacturer more cost effective?
Last resort - Paper weight.
I once received a NIB Bachmann Spectrum diesel where they somehow missed a very important screw during assembly, but the shop I purchased it from was able to supply a replacement screw and fix easily. (This was clear back when I was 14, 21 years ago.)
Only other NIB issues I've ever had was defective factory decoder, and defective lighting in another from factory. One was replaced by manufacturer no charge, the other I gave up fighting over it and ordered parts to fix it myself. (And I make a point to not purchase anything else from that seller any longer.)
So, I will repeat the question - What is defective about it? And which model is it? The popularity of Bachmann units being as it is, someone might have come across the issue and it was simple enough to fix so cheaply they just did it themselves and can advise.
Ricky W.
HO scale Proto-freelancer.
My Railroad rules:
1: It's my railroad, my rules.
2: It's for having fun and enjoyment.
3: Any objections, consult above rules.
wjstix Just out of curiosity, what is the $99 'defective' item, and what is the problem with it? It might be something someone else has encountered and found a simple solution to.
It sounds like an issue with the decoder, perhaps overheating or something else wrong with it. (If it was a poor track connection it wouldn't slow down, it would just stop dead.)
Have you ever run it with another engine in a consist? If you have an engine as a trailing engine in a consist and then try to run it directly without ending the consist, it will react the way you describe. Have you tried running it on DC? If it runs OK on DC, it could be the consist issue with the decoder.
Consist ?, I took it out of box brand new, didn't even want to reset to factory specs as fully under warrenty. This stuff happened from the start.
rrebell Consist ?, I took it out of box brand new, didn't even want to reset to factory specs as fully under warrenty. This stuff happened from the start.
Trainworld's return policy will not allow you to return a defective product to them. Be prepared to have to contact Bachmann.
Most online retailers do not assume the responsibility of a factory defect. They generally only accept returns for errors they commit, such as shipping damage or wrong item sent.
They will also work with a customer if you simply no longer want the item, changed your mind, etc. and will accept a return.
But they do not take the responsibility for chasing down a factory problem and want you to send it to the people who can actually fix it.
Ya, if you're running it on ID 03 it's not going to be an issue with a consist (unless you at some time set up a consist with an engine that was using ID 03 of course, but that's not likely.)
FWIW according to Bachmann's parts page, the sound decoder board for the S4 costs $89.61 (the S4 list price is $249), so even if you have to spend a few bucks to send your $99 engine back for repair / replacement you're still coming out ahead.
p.s. Still curious if it runs OK on DC or not? Even with a DCC engine I like to do a break-in run on DC first. It could at least narrow down the list of potential problems.
I would still do a factory decoder reset.
If you can test with DC, if it's overheating it will do it on DC as well.
If it is fine on DC, something is making it slow down on DCC only.
Make sure no other throttle is set to address 03 as well.
Doughless rrebell Consist ?, I took it out of box brand new, didn't even want to reset to factory specs as fully under warrenty. This stuff happened from the start. Trainworld's return policy will not allow you to return a defective product to them. Be prepared to have to contact Bachmann. Most online retailers do not assume the responsibility of a factory defect. They generally only accept returns for errors they commit, such as shipping damage or wrong item sent. They will also work with a customer if you simply no longer want the item, changed your mind, etc. and will accept a return. But they do not take the responsibility for chasing down a factory problem and want you to send it to the people who can actually fix it.
A few more thoughts to go along with these and my own earlier comments.
At the prices Trainworld is offering, there is no extra make-up for velvet glove "service".
Even if they were to pay for the return shipping, what is the point of shipping it back to them so they can in turn ship it back to Bachmann?
Sure, if you paid full retail, or near retail, over the counter of a store down the street from your house, it would make sense to take it back and expect help or a replacement - but you didn't, so you can't.
There is no free lunch, every time someone somewhere gets something for nothing, someone else does something for nothing. How much do you want to do for nothing?
Anybody know the source of that quote?
Milton Friedman didn't coin TANSTAAFL, but he and R.A.Heinlein were two who made it popular.
One of my laws of consulting is that the amount of customer service demanded as 'due' is inversely proportional to the original purchase price. (There is even more objective knowledge behind this than there is for why buses run in packs in NYC). The inverse proportion in many cohorts is geometric, not linear...
For a while in the 'friction-free economy' years, some of the gains of efficient logistics and 'Internet' marketing could translate into better customer service -- I well remember the first time a computer-equipment retailer capped their shipping cost per order, regardless of size of order. There is a kind of Gresham's law in cheap marketing that eventually makes any kind of service after the payment clears 'money left on the table'. Ruskin's old adage about 'those who buy on price' is just as applicable to sales as it is to production...
TrainWorld does not bill themselves as the "closeout kings" for nothing.
The Bachmann S4 had a retail price of $249.00 when it came out. TrainWorld paid Bachmann about $74 for it. And I am sure they sold a bunch at $140 or $125 when they were new.
Now what is left is priced at $99. Or, about 25% gross margin.
Anybody that knows anything about retail, brick and mortar or mail order, will tell you that you need to make 30%, bare minimum.
And you are not really making a good return until you get to 40% or hopefully 50%.
You need to make money to provide the velvet glove service.
In the old days, $99 would have been near rock bottom wholesale from the manufacturer for an item with a $249 retail price.
Everybody complains about defects, and about availability, about service, but nobody wants to pay a reasonable price for retailers or manufacturers to provide all this.
I buy stuff from Trainworld, and years ago when I bought Proto2000 locos at 1/3 their retail price, that ended up needing new gears, I got them right from LifeLike under warranty or bought them myself without a second thought.
BUT, having worked in this business, and having been self employed most of my life, my perspective is likely different....