ALL of the Kato built Atlas models came in the yellow box era, along with the Roco built ones. Kato driven Atlas models are the RS3, yes a wonder of the world at the time for smoothness and quiet running, the RS1, RS11, RSD4/5, RSD12, C424, C425 and the GP7. The remaining yellow box models were Roco driven with their typical "growl" they have. The S series switchers have a unique sound to them but are smooth and pull really well thanks to the diecast chassis. The GP and SD and FP diesels have their own sound to them. Yes the fuel tanks suck on the GP and SD models, and the windshields look like the FP is squinting. But for the time, they were and still are great models. Finding certain road names on specific models is hard. Try finding Clinchfield yellow/grey GP7's or BC Rail Alco C425's. I am looking for both road numbers of the latter with no luck lately. The early Stewart F series were Kato driven as well but switched to a China clone of the Kato drive, looks identical but the performance is a tad lower and there are no "Kato" markings on the truck gear cases. But they still run really nice overall. I just prefer the Kato drives over pretty much anything on the market, both in HO and N scale. The molded on details or lack of them is not a detraction from models that I handle on a regular basis or would take to the club layout on regular occasion. Less to break or get mangled, and if I wanted that detail, I would add it myself. The whole task/project of detailing a model how I wanted it, was all part of the enjoyment of the hobby. Detailing a diesel whilst watching a game on TV was an enjoyable evening or Sunday afternoon. Mike
Silly NT's, I have Asperger's Syndrome
SeeYou190Shock Control They were making Proto 2000s in the 1950s? The title of the thread was Athearn Blue Box, Atlas Yellow Box, etc. Many of the previous responses included Kato, Proto 2000, etc. Did the conversation take a turn to 1950s models that I missed? -Kevin
They were making Proto 2000s in the 1950s?
The title of the thread was Athearn Blue Box, Atlas Yellow Box, etc.
Many of the previous responses included Kato, Proto 2000, etc.
Did the conversation take a turn to 1950s models that I missed?
-Kevin
Silly me. I conflated "Athearn Blue Box" and "Atlas Yellow Box," and I saw "Athearn Yellow Box," and immediately thought of rubber band drives. I might have blamed it on drinking, but I've been sober for nearly a week.
I have two sets of Proto 1000 F3 A&B units, and they are my go-to locomotives.
Carry on.
Shock ControlThey were making Proto 2000s in the 1950s?
Living the dream.
SeeYou190Athearn Blue Box, maybe. However, my Stewart/Kato F units, Proto-2000 models, and my Atlas/Roco S2 run slowly and smoothly like champions. -Kevin
Shock ControlIt's hard to get those older model locomotives to run very slowly and very smoothly.
Athearn Blue Box, maybe. However, my Stewart/Kato F units, Proto-2000 models, and my Atlas/Roco S2 run slowly and smoothly like champions.
emdmikeAm I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff?
In our club environment, I love the simplicity and durability of Athearn and Roundhouse freight cars... no detail for the ham-fisted to break off.
But for locomotives, one I saw see-through handrails, it was hard to go back!
I'm on a tight budget so I've gravitated towards Life Like Proto 2000 locos. Nice mix of detail and Athearn drivetrain simplicity and at reasonable prices. Fragile, but not too fragile (and you can't see a broken handrail from 20' away anyway).
But -- we're DCC at our club and a new loco on sale at TW or Walthers is a good a deal as putting sound in an old BB. If you're patient you can find what you like.
A friend with a wholesale connection has hooked me up with some Genesis locos at a cheap price. Lovely locos but yes, I fear for fragility. I've broken details just taking the shells off for service. I rarely leave them at the club, they usually go back in their boxes after a run.
Athearn's RTR diesels can be a very good deal... BB simlicity with the details you'd be adding on anyway. A tad fragile but decent value. Every once in a while an RTR w sound pops up on TrainWorld for very cheap.
Aaron
It's hard to get those older model locomotives to run very slowly and very smoothly. That is my #1 expectation of a locomotive.
DoughlessThose older Walthers and LL Proto tank car kits were horrible to assemble, IMO. They are probably going on 20 years old now, and the detail parts may have been plastic and not wire.
I have five Life-Like Proto-2000 8,000 gallon tank cars painted and lettered for the STRATTON AND GILLETTE.
Detail Associates made tank grabs and dome grabs from wire that replace the plastic kit parts perfectly. I used Tichy wire grabs for the frame. The stirrups are the kit plastic parts. They are pretty durable and look quite good.
There are only seven or eight plactic tank cars in my fleet. I have purchased brass tank car models exclusively for years because of how much better they stand up to being handled.
Those older Walthers and LL Proto tank car kits were horrible to assemble, IMO. They are probably going on 20 years old now, and the detail parts may have been plastic and not wire. I would not use them as a measure of what the market has to offer now.
Most modern models have wire details, or plastic that is more flexible than the previous thin plastic used 20 years ago.
I have purchased quite a bit of new equipment in 2020. Most issues with details has been with them falling off, needing reattaching, not really breaking.
I pick up all new diesel locos by the middle of the long hood. Seems to work just fine.
And handling rolling stock isn't really an issue since most of the fine detail parts are on the ends or underneath.
- Douglas
PM Railfan emdmike I can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos. So at 1/4 the cost and NO discernable advantages, Id rather have 4 than 1. PMR
emdmike I can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos.
I can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos.
So at 1/4 the cost and NO discernable advantages, Id rather have 4 than 1.
PMR
Many of the old Athearn's have long hoods that are wider than the prototype, in order for the old coffee grinder motor to fit. It is has been awhile since I did anything with a Blue Box, but I think the SD40-2 and the GP38-2 were the first with a scale width hood. Having a long hood that is noticeably wider than the prototype is a HUGE disadvantage.
There is a picture in this thread that shows the difference between a wide body and a scale width Proto.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/270169.aspx
An "expensive model collector"
tstageThe older Proto 2000 rolling stock kits are a different story. The stirrups on those those were especially delicate and prone to breakage.
Not only were the stirrups incredibly fragile, everything else was too!! Lift rings, grab irons, exhaust stacks....you name it. They would all break if you even thought about trying to pick one up. It was a hard way to learn how to delicately handle a locomotive, but now I always think twice before deciding where to put my fingers when picking a locomotive up, regardless of the brand.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
PM RailfanI can get my BB's and YB's just as highly detailed (just as fragile). And they already run just as good as any Stewart, Kato, and certainly better than the Protos.
Except for a SW8, all my older Proto 2000 locomotives run as good as my Stewart switchers & F-units and my Kato NW2. And I don't find the detailing all that delicate - even on the newer locomotive offerings. (I don't know. Maybe I just have a gentler touch when it comes to handling things?) The older Proto 2000 rolling stock kits are a different story. The stirrups on those those were especially delicate and prone to breakage.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
emdmike Am I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff? Mike the Aspie
Am I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff? Mike the Aspie
Im with ya.
Im not knocking the new stuff, i have some. Some are pretty nice. Some are tootle. The word you mentioned.... 'price'.... yeah, that ruins it for me and the hobby too.
Why would I own any of the new stuff? Because you cant get an Athearn E7A, or an Atlas NW2 in HO.
emdmikeAm I the only one that prefers older locomotives over this new high priced and much more fragle(to me at least) new stuff? While I started with Athearn blue box EMD's when I was in my teens, I shifted to yellow box era Atlas locos with the silky smooth Kato drive,which is often cloned by the Chinese but not equiled in my opinion. ... Other engines sporting this drive were the earlier Stewart F units. This all shifted when Kato started selling HO engines under their own brand.
All my Athearn Blue box that I am "satisfied" with have been remotered with can or coreless motors, flexible tub drive shafts, and regeared to get rid of the grinding gears noise. Atlas yellow boxes did not require as much rework but still work.
You ask what I prefer, and I have to ask prefer for what? Do I need a single loco that will pull 100 cars up a grade then an OLD HobbyTown E7 would be the loco of preference. Do I need a locomotive for a picture of the layout on the cover of a magazine I'll prefer a new Scale Trains thank you very much. Operating night with a bunch of clumbsy un-known operators I'll prefer the locomotives that you said, good runners but not much detail to get broken off. For Theme Day at the club or museum for the public, I'll prefer the Proto-2000, Genesis class as they run well and have enough detail to not look like toys to the general population.
I won't even go into how HARD it was to squeeze a PMP-112 decoder into one of those origijnal RS-3 locos. I had to cut the decoder into three parts and make jumpers between the pieces of circuit board. There was 30 hours that would have been saved with today's locomotive with decoders designed specifically to fit that specific shell. I much prefer to not have to do the decoder cram anymore, not to mention sound.
So I guess my preference follows function.
Modeling 1900 means 19th Century steam only, and being on a limited budget (until the last year or two) means no brass. Not that there were a lot of brass models of 19th Century prototypes. And most of the brass geared locos I can now afford have the same "too large" problems as their cast counterparts.
In the past, I had a pretty limited selection - Mantua General, Ten Wheeler, and Twelve Wheeler; Roundhouse Old Timers; AHM/Rivarossi Americans, with Bachmann being the new source. Geared locomotives - Roundhouse Shay, Keystone Shay, Roundhouse Climax, AHM/Rivarossi Heisler. Of the geared locomotives, only the Keystone Shay is scale size and appropriate the to era without considerable modification. The same is true for the rod locomotives - considerable effort is needed to make them run well and look good - with the exception of Bachmann. Bachmann steam usually runs well, but when it doesn't, it really doesn't - and there's very little I can do to fix a faulty Chinese mechanism.
Mantua 4-6-0 and 4-8-0 used the same boiler, mechanism, and grossly out of scale cab for both models. Roundhouse also used the same boiler and mechanism for the Old Timer 4-4-0, 2-6-0, and 2-8-0.
Luckily, I'm a lone wolf model railroader building a small layout, so 3 engines that run well is quite sufficient.
My trials and tribulations with these locomotives have tempted me to buy a Bachmann On30 loco to at least be able to run trains quickly.
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
I do. I'm old school and mostly run old/older dc locomotives. I only have a handful of new/newer locos. Most of my fleet is 20 years old or more, some of it is as old as 1950s era, most of them run quite well. I like a lot of the older models because many of them are generally more durable, easier to service, you don't have to be an electronics guru if something breaks, and models of many of the prototypes I like were only made in a certain time period, and haven't been made since. The only time I buy new is if it's all that's available, or less expensive than used.
I love my blue box / yellow box locomotives. One of the big reasons is because they are easy to work on. I do not have much money invested in them, for example I think I paid $15.00 for a SW7 (labeled a SW1500) in 1976. My yellow box Atlas engines were acquired for $25 each. I have the detail parts and drive parts to make better models out of them. To date, my first hardwired DCC install was a BB F7; it works/runs great. It is a hobby in and of itself to rework these locomotives.
When I was about 20 or so I bought the parts from the train store I worked for to rebuild two Rivarossi Y-6B 2-8-8-2's. Never again. We had all the parts to build a new one just from parts, but the parts were not cheap. The plastic driver centers are horrible, and eventually all drivers will need to be replaced as they start turning on the shaft and then it just binds up. Even after you tear it apart to replace all the drivers, you still have the 3 pole motor powering the thing, which is just utterly terrible. For the cost even today of buying and then rebuilding a Rivarossi 2-8-8-2, one could easily buy a lightly used BLI diecast Y-6B, or one of the factory refurbished ones when they are available, or a good used Proto 2000 2-8-8-2, and then you'd really have something that is light years better than the old Rivarossi that you can run the wheels off of. I'll never touch Rivarossi steam again. Besides, the store eventually blew out all the parts--so they are gone and the opportunity to even obtain all the parts needed to make a Rivarossi 2-8-8-2 run half way decently is most likely gone with them.
At least with old Athearn or Atlas diesels, they can be nearly bulletproof if well taken care of. The Rivarossi steam is not even in that league.
John
I have many Athearn BB, one thing I always liked was the ease of switching shells. Years ago I got a bunch of extra shells $5 and dumies $10 so that 10 powered chassis became 20 different engine roadnames. Multipler F7s, GP35, GP9, of course, but also SD45s and F45s switched around. And also Gp38-2 and GP 40-2
Tigerholm @Yahoo.com
Video http://www.youtube.com/user/lakesuperiorvideos#p/p
micktropolisI like some older models, Athearn BB, IHC and Rivarossi steam, because I am able to add my own detail to them.
Yes! That is a big appeal of those models.
I like some older models, Athearn BB, IHC and Rivarossi steam, because I am able to add my own detail to them. If they don't run well, I can try fixing that and it's usually a little easier than newer stuff. I enjoy adding detail parts and doing that to a newer model is tougher for me to come to terms with if it involves cutting and filing.
The Backshops - A blog dedicated to modeling projects
I had some nostalgia for a while, sure for the old blue box F7, but like John says, it's not hard to pass on items. It helps to thin the herd as well.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I had rose colored glasses, too, but when I see what some of the new locomotives offer, it's easy for me to leave yesterday to the history books. I have fond memories of 1980's model railroading, but am leaving that era behind for good.
My last Atlas Classic Series engine is on ebay now with bids, as I'm updating my locomotive fleet again. I do not have any ScaleTrains stuff though, only Bowser and Genesis.
Different strokes. I've sold off nearly all of my Athearn blue box loco's and all of my Atlas yellow box. Different reasons but most of them were lacking in one way or another.
Examples of why.
Atlas yellow box D&RGW GP7 - the paint was wrong. The black looked more like dark gray and the orange too redish. Also the paint did not adhear well to the metal fuel tank, which btw was the wrong size.
Atlas yellow box GP40's had a horrible misshaped fuel tank with big slot in the side. Sure you could fill the slot but the fuel tank still look really bad.
The Atlas yellow box RS3 was too early for my era.
Athearn BB GP40-2: when Atlas came out with their GP40-2 with the correct nose light (a signature feature of the D&RGW) the BB became surplus. I might have the pieces of one in a box somewhere still.
Athearn BB tunnel motors, surplus with the newer RTR tunnel motors were released - the new ones had the correct nose light, plow and see through tunnel air intake.
I had a few Athearn BB F7's, but I always hated the oversized misshaped windshields; so those got sold off when the much better looking Stewart F7's came out.
Maybe my rose colored glasses got lost along the way.
hon30critterMore recently however I have indulged in a few Rapidos, specifically an FP9 and two RDCs. I haven't given up on buying older locomotives at all, but the Rapidos were just too tempting!
Yes, those Rapido RDCs are irresistable models. Mine is truly gorgeous.
ATSFGuyI could always use a few BB "Dummy" Diesels to compliment my regular DCC models. They can trail behind the usual powered locomotives.
I used to be able to buy Athearn undecorated dummies for next to nothing. They make good looking models for photo diorama props.
The prices on these are shooting upwards. I think people are buying the dummies just to get the handrails. Athearn replacement handrail sets are selling for crazy prices now.
I harvested the hadrails from a dummy GP38-2 because of the prices.
emdmike I only wish the Roco drive models had that same silky smooth and quiet drive
I only have one Atlas/Roco locomotive, an Alco S switcher. It is just as good a runner as my Kato NW-2 is.
I know that is way too small a sample size for anything meaningful.
I do find some of the older yellow box Atlas/Kato engines very hard to find. I am on the hunt for a pair of the Clinchfield GP7's to little or no avail. Just camping out on the bay and watching is all I can do with no shows to attend. The Kato plastic handrails of that era suck at holding paint if you do the safety end colors, but they are very forgiving being handled to and from the club layout. Or for those of us that are a bit ham fisted in handling models. Kato really set the bar high when those drives hit the market in the first Atlas Alco road diesels. I only wish the Roco drive models had that same silky smooth and quiet drive with good headlights for analog era running. My very first one was a RS3 in blue N&W colors for my 16th birthday. I has just joined the local club and 1960 was the cut off year for motive power at that time, so first gen diesels. The layout was based on the Clinchfield and the N&W was the closest thing dad could find with the help of a couple of the senior club members helping him chose something somewhat approiate to run on the layout. Mike the Aspie
I could always use a few BB "Dummy" Diesels to compliment my regular DCC models. They can trail behind the usual powered locomotives.
Sample Consist:
1. SD75M Warbonnet SF (Genesis Powered/DCC)
2. SDP40 DUMY Warbonnet SF (Blue Box)
3. SD40-2 DUMY EMD Lease (Blue Box)
I am quite happy with my older locomotives. I have P2K switchers and GPs, several InterMountains Fs, several Atlas and Kato GPs and a few P1K RDCs. I have (or will have) installed Loksound in them and they seem to run fine on my test track and my old club's layout.
More recently however I have indulged in a few Rapidos, specifically an FP9 and two RDCs. I haven't given up on buying older locomotives at all, but the Rapidos were just too tempting!
emdmikeYes I know all of those older models either have cast on grab irons or just dimples for drilling(on the later Athearn blue box era diesels). But with my poor eye/hand cordination due to autism, I find them easier to handle. And the uber smooth drive and decent headlights in analog mode make up for the cast on stuff. ... but the fragile handrails and grab irons are actually a turn off for me.
Ah, I understand the concept: fortunately I got away without similar coordination problems as part of the autism package but it turns out that neurological and endocrine things have reduced my dexterity in recent years.
Yes, an 'it will last for at least half of forever' 1970s, 1980s, blue box Athearn is a good thing on my list. Adding details to them is/was part of the fun for me.
Their drivelines made some noise but were clearly built to live long and prosper.
Put Ernst reduction gearing in and I'm a happy camper. :)
I also enjoy IHC's steamers; the ones I have are smooth runners, reliable, sturdy.
Several years back someone donated an IHC 2-8-0 to club so I painted and lettered it with club's roadname and that little thing will happily make laps around the modules for hours and hours at a time. Also responds nicely to analog power when switching, you can creep up and lock Kadee knuckles without disturbing the dust on the wheels of what you are coupling to.
Analog mode is my favorite but with being part of a club starting in 2009 where eventually going DCC became an issue - would you believe my elderly parents gave me 3 Bachmann DCC locomotives for Christmas around 2014!
Handrail durability is both an actual issue and a pet peeve. Especially with frequent handling to transport locomotives between home and club. The slimmer rails and stanchions look okay, but ...