I am tossing around the idea of getting a CB&Q EMD E7 from Bachmann. They are on eBay for $140 and have sound. Are there any faults with them I should be worried about, also how are their shells?
Thanks for responding
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjifED_CU7s
There might be a couple more there. There is also a Bachmann wesite with forums, Parts page, DCC CV page, loco Diagrams. A search will bring up the site easily.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I think I would try to pick up a Proto 2000 E7 - i.e. if one is available in that particular road name. While not with sound, I've seen them selling on eBay for very reasonable prices. And the detailing would be better than the Bachmann, along with a smoother drivetrain. But that's what's important to me. YMMV...
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
They lack detail (especially prototype specific detail), but are dimensionally accurate. They got the sound value decoders which basically give it horn bell prime mover sound.
If you dont mind the value decoder and detail isnt important to you, then its fine...but I agree an old proto 2000 model is far superior.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Modeling the PRR & NYC in HO
Youtube Channel: www.youtube.com/@trainman440
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
I have both. The Bachmann is a smoother runner, and side by side hard to tell the difference. The sound is very good. On start up, one engine starts, then the second. Speed is very smooth both up the throttle and down. Horns are good. Lighting is very good. I have multiple Proto E units, and now multiple Bachmann E units, which see a lot more track time.
$120 at Train World. I have some S2's and they run and sound great and at 1/3 the price of an Atlas, never use any but basic sounds anyway.
One thing I have discovered about the newer Bachman Diesels including the E-7 . I've never had to clean the wheels on the units. I run 4 of them on a PRR/PC style Mail train. Have run it at open houses and afterwards take a look at the wheels for cleaning. Not one speck of dirt !!! This after 4 hours of run time. I love them. Not as detailed as the Proto's but think of them as an old Athearn Blue box units with a good mechanism and great wheels. A good start for detailing .
Here is a short link.
https://youtu.be/5k5ksXeat1g
Thre are a couple reviews at You Tube. I saw one out of the box;.
This is starting to turn into Anarchy
No Great Northern. The Atlantic Coast Line is nice looking. CB&Q model is very nice, they look great elephant style with a string of stainless cars behind.
FYI: There is a Proto 2000 E7 in CB&Q for $65.99 on Ebay.
Great Northern Fan 54Are the Bachmann E7s related to the Model power ones?
No.
Trainman440 They lack detail (especially prototype specific detail), but are dimensionally accurate. They got the sound value decoders which basically give it horn bell prime mover sound. If you dont mind the value decoder and detail isnt important to you, then its fine...but I agree an old proto 2000 model is far superior.
$300 for a crappy decoder and non proto detail is deal breaker.
https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2017/03/bachmann-soundvalue-ho-scale-emd-e7a
An "expensive model collector"
n012944 Trainman440 They lack detail (especially prototype specific detail), but are dimensionally accurate. They got the sound value decoders which basically give it horn bell prime mover sound. If you dont mind the value decoder and detail isnt important to you, then its fine...but I agree an old proto 2000 model is far superior. $300 for a crappy decoder and non proto detail is deal breaker. https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2017/03/bachmann-soundvalue-ho-scale-emd-e7a
First of all, they are not really $300. You can buy all the sound and value Bachmann E7's you want for $180 each. And you can buy the DC version for $80 and put in whatever decoder you like.
This has been discussed over and over. OK, If you want a better detailed model get your wallet out and buy them, they are out there from other brands.
Bachmann makes trains for beginners on limited budgets, they make mid grade models for those not so fussy, and they make a few REALLY NICE high end pieces.
ALL with good mechanical QUALITY these days.
I have lots of Bachmann locos - but no mainline road diesels, because like you I want a little more detail. Unlike you I have no interest in decoders or sound.
My E unit of choice is the old Proto 2000 units, I have six of them, I don't need any more.
I'll tell you what E unit I would never buy, the over priced crappy, bulky oversized detail Broadway models with front couplers that stick out too far, oversized couple holes in the pilot, no other pilot details and crappy diaphragms.
But, I admit, I have a big bias because I don't use DCC and they don't sell DC. They seem to approach "detail" from the point of view that it needs to be somewhat "robust", I have no trouble with delicate models.
So I get it, the Bachmann model is not for you, I'm not buying that particular model from them either.
But that does not mean we have to start ragging on Bachmann. They provide lots of important stuff to this hobby overall - and a good bit of what you like from other brands likely comes from their factories..........
And at $80 for DC, or $180 for DCC and sound, its a good value for a lot of folks.
Sheldon
Great Northern Fan 54That's good, the Model Power E7 is very crude
The Model Power model was tooled about 40 years ago, and it was only "average" for that time. I know, I was managing a hobby shop train department at the time.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL You can buy all the sound and value Bachmann E7's you want for $180 each. And you can buy the DC version for $80 and put in whatever decoder you like. I have lots of Bachmann locos - but no mainline road diesels, because like you I want a little more detail. Unlike you I have no interest in decoders or sound. My E unit of choice is the old Proto 2000 units, I have six of them, I don't need any more. I'll tell you what E unit I would never buy, the over priced crappy, bulky oversized detail Broadway models with front couplers that stick out too far, oversized couple holes in the pilot, no other pilot details and crappy diaphragms.
You can buy all the sound and value Bachmann E7's you want for $180 each. And you can buy the DC version for $80 and put in whatever decoder you like.
Dunno, Sheldon, that is a pretty harsh assessment of BLI E-units. I have 7 of them. Good looking, great runners, competitively priced. The Proto 2000 E-units are pretty nice as well, and I have four of those units. I would call it a tie.
Alton Junction
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL You can buy all the sound and value Bachmann E7's you want for $180 each. And you can buy the DC version for $80 and put in whatever decoder you like. I have lots of Bachmann locos - but no mainline road diesels, because like you I want a little more detail. Unlike you I have no interest in decoders or sound. My E unit of choice is the old Proto 2000 units, I have six of them, I don't need any more. I'll tell you what E unit I would never buy, the over priced crappy, bulky oversized detail Broadway models with front couplers that stick out too far, oversized couple holes in the pilot, no other pilot details and crappy diaphragms. Ouch! Dunno, Sheldon, that is a pretty harsh assessment of BLI E-units. I have 7 of them. Good looking, great runners, competitively priced. The Proto 2000 E-units are pretty nice as well, and I have four of those units. I would call it a tie. Rich
Ouch!
Well, I was making a point. The Broadway E unit is not bad, but is does fall short detail wise compared to the Proto in my opinion. Sound and DCC aside, even if Broadway offered a DC version, I would pick the Proto E unit every time.
Do the Broadway diaphragms touch when they are coupled?
The diaphragms on the Broadway have zero detail compared to the Proto.
The front coupler is set forward - to avoid trip pin interference - but my Protos all work great with the couplers in the correct position.
My C&O Protos have the correct passenger pilot coupler covers - not the Broadway, just big hole with the coupler too far out.
C&O never owned E8B units, they ran back to back A units. When my Proto C&O E units are coupled to my passenger cars, the diaphragm of the passenger car actually rides on the buffer plate of the loco pilot just like the real thing does.
Yes, I admit, I am fussy about diaphragms and close coupling - it is a detail that I feel adds a lot, or detracts a lot if it is not close to correct. These are passenger locomotives.
Discloure - yes my Proto E units have been reworked with the Kadee close coupling kit, but if I bought the Broadway is there any such conversion? Will the stiff, clipped into the body diaphragms work close coupled? I think not. We have had this conversation about expensive passenger cars that don't touch.
I change everything to real Kadee couplers so I would change the Broadway, but again, is there a close coupling option that works?
So once again it is OK for Broadway to have shortcomings, but the bargain priced Bachmann loco is expected to be perfect?
Bet you would pay more than $180 for a Broadway E unit if you bought a new one today?
As I said, I don't want a Bachmann E7, it is not up to my detail standards. But lack of detail is a price point issue, not a "quality" issue.
The Broadway model also fails my detail standards for the reasons listed above.
Different things are important to different people, or not important to some people.
One more second round of the thoughts, on a general note.
Again speaking to the idea that different "details" matter, or don't matter, to different people.
So many people are more and more hung up on our models being "correct" and are quick to criticize models that are generic, or freelanced, selectively compressed, or simply close stand ins.
Yet many of the those same people will overlook cars/locomotives grossly coupled with large gaps between them as they squeek around way too sharp a curve, kinda like a piece of LIONEL.
To my eyes, all that accurate model beauty is LOST as soon as you do that.
You may as well tie them together with strings and run them around 18" radius at that point.
Am I a radius snob? - you bet.
It is what makes the WHOLE SCENE look realistic.
So to my eyes, even though they are not specific models of actual passenger cars, my close coupled 72' cars with touching working diaphragms, pulled by my Proto E units and PA's, also close coupled with touching diaphragms, are realisticly graceful as they weave thru my 36" radius and larger curves.
I'm interested in building a working, operating model railroad that gives some sort of big picture realism to the moving train as a whole, not in just accumulating accurate individual "display" models of railroad equipment.
But we all have different goals and interests. And the details I consider important likely matter not to others, and vice versa.
So, for many people, the Bachmann E7 is likely just fine, and for someone not spending $1200 on a single passenger train, a good value for their money.
Others will feel differently, myself included. While I have lots of Bachmann products, not one "mainline" diesel they have offered is up to my detail standards.
I do have Bachmann GE 44 and 70 Tonners, and a fleet of their doodlebugs. The rest of my Bachmann stuff is steam, mostly older Spectrum from the peak of Spectrum depth and detail.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Well, I was making a point. The Broadway E unit is not bad, but is does fall short detail wise compared to the Proto in my opinion. Sound and DCC aside, even if Broadway offered a DC version, I would pick the Proto E unit every time. Do the Broadway diaphragms touch when they are coupled? The diaphragms on the Broadway have zero detail compared to the Proto. The front coupler is set forward - to avoid trip pin interference - but my Protos all work great with the couplers in the correct position. My C&O Protos have the correct passenger pilot coupler covers - not the Broadway, just big hole with the coupler too far out.
I don't see where Proto E-units are any more detailed than BLI E-units. I came across a 2017 critique this morning where a modeler darn near rebuilt his Proto E-units to achieve more realism and detail.
Yes, the BLI diaphragms do touch out of the box.
That opening in the front of the BLI E-unit doesn't seem very big to me, no more so than photos of the actual prototype. And, there is a spare part in every BLI E-unit box to completely cover the opening and forego the coupler which is unnecessary anyhow except for back-to-back consisting.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Bet you would pay more than $180 for a Broadway E unit if you bought a new one today? As I said, I don't want a Bachmann E7, it is not up to my detail standards. But lack of detail is a price point issue, not a "quality" issue. The Broadway model also fails my detail standards for the reasons listed above.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL One more second round of the thoughts, on a general note. So many people are more and more hung up on our models being "correct" and are quick to criticize models that are generic, or freelanced, selectively compressed, or simply close stand ins. Yet many of the those same people will overlook cars/locomotives grossly coupled with large gaps between them as they squeek around way too sharp a curve, kinda like a piece of LIONEL. To my eyes, all that accurate model beauty is LOST as soon as you do that. You may as well tie them together with strings and run them around 18" radius at that point. Am I a radius snob? - you bet. It is what makes the WHOLE SCENE look realistic. So to my eyes, even though they are not specific models of actual passenger cars, my close coupled 72' cars with touching working diaphragms, pulled by my Proto E units and PA's, also close coupled with touching diaphragms, are realisticly graceful as they weave thru my 36" radius and larger curves.
The same is true for passenger cars. Walthers is probably the manufacturer who has produced more 85' passenger cars than any other passenger car manufacturer. Other threads on this forum have pointed out the necessity of "fine tuning" these cars, not only couplers and diaphragms but also trucks and wheelsets.
You do have a decided advantage with 36" radius curves. Most modelers do not have that luxury of space. I come close with 32" radius curves, but I still cannot accomplish the objectives of close coupling and working diaphragms out of the box, be it locomotives or passenger cars.
richhotrain ATLANTIC CENTRAL One more second round of the thoughts, on a general note. So many people are more and more hung up on our models being "correct" and are quick to criticize models that are generic, or freelanced, selectively compressed, or simply close stand ins. Yet many of the those same people will overlook cars/locomotives grossly coupled with large gaps between them as they squeek around way too sharp a curve, kinda like a piece of LIONEL. To my eyes, all that accurate model beauty is LOST as soon as you do that. You may as well tie them together with strings and run them around 18" radius at that point. Am I a radius snob? - you bet. It is what makes the WHOLE SCENE look realistic. So to my eyes, even though they are not specific models of actual passenger cars, my close coupled 72' cars with touching working diaphragms, pulled by my Proto E units and PA's, also close coupled with touching diaphragms, are realisticly graceful as they weave thru my 36" radius and larger curves. The issue of close coupling and working diaphragms is an issue with not only BLI but also Bachmann and Proto 2000, at least out of the box. It takes time, effort and money to accomplish close coupling and working diaphragms. The same is true for passenger cars. Walthers is probably the manufacturer who has produced more 85' passenger cars than any other passenger car manufacturer. Other threads on this forum have pointed out the necessity of "fine tuning" these cars, not only couplers and diaphragms but also trucks and wheelsets. You do have a decided advantage with 36" radius curves. Most modelers do not have that luxury of space. I come close with 32" radius curves, but I still cannot accomplish the objectives of close coupling and working diaphragms out of the box, be it locomotives or passenger cars. Rich
The issue of close coupling and working diaphragms is an issue with not only BLI but also Bachmann and Proto 2000, at least out of the box. It takes time, effort and money to accomplish close coupling and working diaphragms.
Rich, agreed, but the BLI diaphragm is both lack luster and not conducive to simply moving locos closer together. On the Proto units all you need to is istall the Kadee kit, no other modifications - and they would work on your curves just fine.
Same issue with the front coupler, the Proto setup with the Kadee kit is much better and works on all but the tightest curves.
And honestly, I think the BLI model suffers just a little from the "bulky detail" syndrome we have talked about before.
Is the BLI a terrible model? No, its very nice. But for $80 in DC, or $180 with DC and sound, niether is the Bachmann model.
I am going to leave you with this thought, Sheldon, and I hope that in some small way you will feel bad.
I went down to my layout and assembled all of my BLI E-units together. I said to them, Listen Up. A fellow modeler told me the following. Quote.
"I'll tell you what E unit I would never buy, the over priced crappy, bulky oversized detail Broadway models with front couplers that stick out too far, oversized couple holes in the pilot, no other pilot details and crappy diaphragms".
Sheldon, if you listen closely, you can actually hear the sobbing, weeping, and gnashing of teeth. My layout will never be the same. I hope you're happy.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 Trainman440 They lack detail (especially prototype specific detail), but are dimensionally accurate. They got the sound value decoders which basically give it horn bell prime mover sound. If you dont mind the value decoder and detail isnt important to you, then its fine...but I agree an old proto 2000 model is far superior. $300 for a crappy decoder and non proto detail is deal breaker. https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2017/03/bachmann-soundvalue-ho-scale-emd-e7a First of all, they are not really $300. You can buy all the sound and value Bachmann E7's you want for $180 each. And you can buy the DC version for $80 and put in whatever decoder you like.
So they are going for the JC Penny or domestic automaker route of a high list price, then lots of discounts so people seem to think they are getting a deal? Ouch. Or are they just unable to sell them at their list price, and have to discount them?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL This has been discussed over and over. OK, If you want a better detailed model get your wallet out and buy them, they are out there from other brands.
Great.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Bachmann makes trains for beginners on limited budgets, they make mid grade models for those not so fussy, and they make a few REALLY NICE high end pieces.
According to the linked MR article, they were trying to get $300 for a generic model.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL My E unit of choice is the old Proto 2000 units
My E unit of choice is the old Proto 2000 units
I agree with you there. Although I think the Rapido E unit will be a better model.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I'll tell you what E unit I would never buy, the over priced crappy, bulky oversized detail Broadway models with front couplers that stick out too far, oversized couple holes in the pilot, no other pilot details and crappy diaphragms. But, I admit, I have a big bias because I don't use DCC and they don't sell DC. They seem to approach "detail" from the point of view that it needs to be somewhat "robust", I have no trouble with delicate models.
Who said anything about the Broadway model? I don't care that much for it either. I have one, it was a gift. The only reason I even still have it is for sentimental reasons.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL So I get it, the Bachmann model is not for you, I'm not buying that particular model from them either. But that does not mean we have to start ragging on Bachmann. They provide lots of important stuff to this hobby overall - and a good bit of what you like from other brands likely comes from their factories..........
So, you don't want me "ragging" on Bachmann, but yet you consistenly "rag" on Broadway Limited? Even to the point of bringing up a Broadway Limited model that was not even being discussed in this thread? Got it.
The OP asked for opinions on the model, which I gave. If my opinion is "ragging" on the model manufacture, get over it.
richhotrain Sheldon, I get your point. After re-reading your post a few times, it seems that you are going after the anti-Bachmann crowd than the BLI followers.
Sheldon, I get your point. After re-reading your post a few times, it seems that you are going after the anti-Bachmann crowd than the BLI followers.
Which is pathetic. Model manufactures are not sports teams or political parties. They don't need to be defended. And someone who has a different opinion about them doesn't need to be "gone after".