I found a PROTO1000AT&SF ERIE-BUILT (A unit and B unit, both with motor) at an online hobby shop for $116 new old stock. I'm planning on buying it, but before that, I have a few questions. Is this a good deal? Does anybody have a PROTO1000 ERIE-BUILT, and what are your thoughts on the model? Also, where do PROTO1000 ERIE-BUILTs stand for detail?
I bought my A-B-A set when Life-Like first introduced them, must be twenty years now. They have run flawlessly and consistently since new.
NYC_Erieblt by Edmund, on Flickr
Detail level is on par with a typical mid-range model, no added grab irons or hand rails. Body details are nice and seem accurate.
Running quality is superb. They are quiet and smooth runners and pull very well.
Most of the pre-Walthers Life-Like stuff I've bought lately, new old stock, seems to be in the $80-100 per unit range so $116+ for an A-B set is in the ball park. I have found better "deals" but these usually come up at train shows.
Good Luck, Ed
My experience wth these models is much like Ed's. I'm very pleased with them.
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Thank you very much!
Thanks! Your layout looks very nice!
I have an A-B-A set that I bought on EBay 5 years ago, also "new" (unused). I think your price at less than $60 each is very reasonable if NOS and undamaged.
I also have Proto 2000 E units and PA/PB passenger cab units. Plus a number of P1K & P2K freight cab and hood units. The detail differences I see for the passenger units are that the P1K Erie Builts lack lifting lugs atop, have cast on door handrails and a simple rear door frame extension to represent a diaphragm. The P2K units have lifting lugs, separate door handrails (which are breakable, of course) and a fancier rear door diaphragm. Not a lot of difference, I'd say. The Erie Builts have w/s wipers like the P2K units.
I like them all, they run like the P2Ks with the LokSound Select decoders. I had to replace some cracked gears on the E units, a problem more often found on the early 4-axle Life-Like Protos IIRC. If you run into that, note that different models have different number of teeth on the axle gears (and different size wheels).
I converted all the aforementioned diesels to DCC (LokSound Select), using either dual 1.1" speakers or multi-speaker micros. In the Erie Builts I added quad micros, just for fun.
I like all the early Proto diesels, including the variety of types in my UP scheme. Of course a new Genesis, etc. has lots more detail, so it is up to you. It is tough to find particular loco types in a road name you want, so it is often a good choice to go with the NOS units when available.
EDIT: It dawned on me that I might have made a video of the Erie Builts after conversion to DCC/sound. Here is the (fuzzy) video.
https://youtu.be/FV_geR-Pmw8
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
I have a P1K RSC-3. I got it very cheap brand new when Walthers picked up Life-Like. I installed an early Tsunami sound decoder and replaced the headlights with LEDs. It's always been one of my favorites.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
UP,
My understanding is that the Proto 1000 & 2000 shared the same mechanism. The differences, therefore, are found on the shell. The Proto 2000s, as mentioned, will have better detailing but both should run equally well.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
UnionPacific8444I found a PROTO1000AT&SF ERIE-BUILT (A unit and B unit, both with motor) at an online hobby shop for $116 new old stock. I'm planning on buying it, but before that, I have a few questions. Is this a good deal?
I have been looking for undecorated Proto 1000 Eries builts since they were introduced, and never found one. I am beginning to believe the undecorated models were never manufactured.
I would buy them, especially if that $116.00 is for both of the models.
I have not owned one myself, but I know an A/B set ran at a hobby shop here in Florida for more than a decade. That seems pretty solid to me.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I have a UP A/B set that run great. The details on the P1K Erie-Builts are kind of a mish-mash; I'm not sure that they're right for any railroad.
http://www.trainweb.org/jaydeet/erie.htm
Phase Ia: the original carbody with square front windshields, step roof over the cab, stainless steel grills, and the raised sections on the nose for the class lights. UP 50-M-1A,2A,3B would be Phase Ia1 since they had two horizontal grabs in the rear side corner recess instead of vertical handrails in the recess. Phase Ib: the stainless grills were eliminated and the middle stirrup step was eliminated in favor of steps in the fuel tank. Phase IIa: the curved windshields, smooth cab roof, smooth nose for the class lights, and a straight middle stirrup step appeared. The recesses at the back side corner were filled in but the handrails were still recessed. (I haven't been able to confirm this, but C&NW 5001A may have had the full recess. C&NW's other three Eries had the filled recess, though.) Phase IIb: the recesses disappear completely.
Phase Ia: the original carbody with square front windshields, step roof over the cab, stainless steel grills, and the raised sections on the nose for the class lights.
UP 50-M-1A,2A,3B would be Phase Ia1 since they had two horizontal grabs in the rear side corner recess instead of vertical handrails in the recess.
Phase Ib: the stainless grills were eliminated and the middle stirrup step was eliminated in favor of steps in the fuel tank.
Phase IIa: the curved windshields, smooth cab roof, smooth nose for the class lights, and a straight middle stirrup step appeared. The recesses at the back side corner were filled in but the handrails were still recessed. (I haven't been able to confirm this, but C&NW 5001A may have had the full recess. C&NW's other three Eries had the filled recess, though.)
Phase IIb: the recesses disappear completely.
ETA: https://mrr.trains.com/news-reviews/staff-reviews/2001/02/life-like-proto-1000-ho-scale-fm-erie-built-diesels
Gary
tstage UP, My understanding is that the Proto 1000 & 2000 shared the same mechanism. The differences, therefore, are found on the shell. The Proto 2000s, as mentioned, will have better detailing but both should run equally well. Tom
Rich
Alton Junction
Good question, Rich. While I do have a few pieces of Proto 1000 rolling stock, I do not own any Proto 1000 locomotives. I would assume they were DCC-ready but maybe Ed and others can confirm or deny that.
I never owned a Proto 1000, but I seem to recall that the motor is isolated from the frame. However, there is no plug for easy conversion to DCC.
richhotrain Were the Proto 1000's DCC Ready? Rich
Were the Proto 1000's DCC Ready?
Sort of. All of the models I have, F3, C-Liner, Erie-Built, the motor is isolated from the frame. There is a circuit board with traces to cut and pads to solder to:
https://tcsdcc.com/installation/ho-scale/1377
You might be more concerned with the truck frames than detailing on the bodies. PA trucks are not right for any, and the earliest had a distinctly different type.
Dale had this problem in reverse when restoring 'NKP 190'...
The easiest thing to do with those "cut traces" boards is to remove it and replace the board with an Athearn/Atlas form factor decoder. The wires go to almost the exact same points on the decoder board, making it super easy.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Overmod You might be more concerned with the truck frames than detailing on the bodies. PA trucks are not right for any, and the earliest had a distinctly different type. Dale had this problem in reverse when restoring 'NKP 190'...
DrWCould you please elaborate on this? I model the Santa Fe, and the truck frames on the P2K Erie-built SF model look very much like pics of the prototype.
NKP 190 was given a pair of ex-Erie-Built trucks (from the rail-grinding train) as the original ATSF PA trucks were lost or kept in Mexico and no comparable replacements, in standard gauge at least, available. There has been some discussion on the differences in various forums over the years.
DrW Overmod You might be more concerned with the truck frames than detailing on the bodies. PA trucks are not right for any, and the earliest had a distinctly different type. Dale had this problem in reverse when restoring 'NKP 190'... Could you please elaborate on this? I model the Santa Fe, and the truck frames on the P2K Erie-built SF model look very much like pics of the prototype. Thanks JW
They're close, and if you want to call it close enough, that's ok by me. I think the FM truck has another brake cylinder on the middle wheelset, and is slightly flattened on the top.
The P1K RDCs are easy to convert to DCC. Since the decoder I used had 4 functions, I also installed 2 LEDs in the passenger compartment for interior lighting.
In a world of shorty rubber band drive Athearn RDCs, and the shorty ATT (not the phone company) RDCs, the P1K was king. Then along came Rapido...
Grab it for $116, excellent price for new. Proto 1000s run terrific, even if they run a little fast (on DC anyway). I own an A and an A/B. A little less detail is not a problem for me and you don't have to be super careful about breaking lift rings and rungs. After awhile mine started to go thump thump down the track. LL sent me free new axles before Walthers came along, an easy replacement. Enjoy. -Rob
The loco arrived on the mail today. All of the couplers were broken, even though it was "new old stock". Luckily, I had some kadee 158s, so i followed the directions on the manual to change the couplers. The tabs that held the coupler lids broke off (those things are ridiculously fragile), so I glued them on. It didn't run very smoothly compared to the other locos I have. It's hard to say, but it wasn't worth $116 in my opinion.. I've had bad experiences with life like protos before, so I should have known..
UnionPacific8444 I've had bad experiences with life like protos before, so I should have known..
That is sad to hear.
All the couplers were broken on both locomotives? That is very unusual. Were they packed well?
I have many Life Like Proto locomotives, and a couple Walthers Proto, and except for craked gears on one GP, no issued at all.
I do not have the Erie Builts, but GP7/9, SD7, FA1, E8s, and the FM switcher.
Look at the wheels to see how worn they are. This will tell you if it is new or not.
Dave
Just be glad you don't have to press "2" for English.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ_ALEdDUB8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hqFS1GZL4s
http://s73.photobucket.com/user/steemtrayn/media/MovingcoalontheDCM.mp4.html?sort=3&o=27
This worm gear was in a new old stock L-L FA2 I bought about two years ago. Still in original shrink wrap.
Proto_gear-3 by Edmund, on Flickr
I fully anticipate the need to strip these engines down and give them a thorough "going over". I never expected to take a fifteen or twenty-year old locomotive out of the package, place it on a track and expect it to purr like a well-oiled machine.
You couldn't do this with an automobile either.
Proto_gear-9 by Edmund, on Flickr
These worm bearings were corroded and the lubrication had reacted with some alloys in the bronze bearings to form both the oxide you see and it turned the lube into a very effective resin-like pitch which locked the shaft quite effectively. That glazed lube is just like amber.
All 8 of the axle gears had to be replaced (as I expected). Lots of this Life-Like stock has been shuffled around, stored in cold, or very hot and damp climates. Many of the boxes I've seen show signs of being hauled around for years, probably to and from dozens of train shows.
I'm sorry to hear of your disappointment.
Regards, Ed
LastspikemikeIf you glued down the coupler lids you may come to regret doing so.
If cyanoacrylate, be sure you can apply a correct solvent safely, without damaging other parts or paint (or lungs or DNA...). If thermoplastic glue, be sure you have safe means to heat just the bonded area to release it and not warp things. If the bond needs to be cut or scraped, be careful to apply the hold-down glue only in the areas you can reach, or restore if damaged during the "R&R".
A little foresight and forethought will probably pay dividends down the line...
Incidentally, to 'second' what Ed is saying: whether or not you plan to run careful lubrication of the appropriate multiple types in a locomotive, you have to clean the old grease and dirt out of the mechanism first 'no matter what'. I disagree with lastspikemike a little in principle, in that I think it's important to remove old hardened grease and potential corrosion from mechanism parts before applying any sort of new lubricants or solvents to be 'worked in over time' to loosen 'er up or do an analogue of wear-in testing. Even a few minutes of running one of those plastic gears against crud in a worm may cause irremediable tooth damage, which will probably NOT subsequently wear or polish out in use.
I won't say it's not 'better' to just relube instead of not doing anything -- but I'd surely want to tear down far enough to get all the old dirt and crap out of a 'new to me' driveline, and check to be sure everything was aligned and not warped or cracked, before doing any extensive testing or 'break-in running'. And that's what I'd recommend the OP do with these two units before he condemns them as poor quality out-of-hand.
I am much more curious about how the couplers were broken.
Unless the packaging was completely destroyed, it should have been able to protect the couplers from damage.
How banged up were these model when they arrived?
Makes me question the "new old stock" status with broken couplers. They did come with absolutely horrible 'compatible' couplers as did all my P2K locos, that have a tendency to jam wide open and never move back, but I don;t use anything but real Kadees on anything, because I have yet to find any of the 'compatibles' that work as well as they do - and if the Walthers ones are supposed to be "just as good", well, they are no cheaper so why switch?
I have yet to have a bad P2K loco, and I have a bunch. Cracked gears don't count, it's $2 of Athearn parts to fix. Nver had an Erie Built, but did have a DL109 P1K, which was also fine - but that was purchased back when they first came out, it wasn't something sitting around for 15-20 years.
My stuff has all been packed away for 7 years or so at this point, except for a couple of locos I have on my bench (2 recent purchases of old locos, 2 recent purchases of new runs, and one of my older ones), so I expect to be going over each of them before placing them back in operation if I ever get my layout built far enough to run trains.
rrinkerMakes me question the "new old stock" status with broken couplers.
Me too. As I mentioned before in a different thread, the last few locomotives I have purchased on eBay have been destroyed in transit due to poor packaging by the seller.
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I don't want to start a new thread for this question.
Can anyone verify that the UNDECORATED Proto 1K Erie Built locomotives were ever made? They were mentioned, but I have never seen one, and I have had an eye out for many many years.