rrinkerAnd then many of those Canadian locos came to the US to run on tourist lines. Steamtown USA?
I could not make it to Steamtown USA this year as planned... stupid virus. My October trip was cancelled.
Hopefully I will get there sometime soon, and finally see some of that great Canadian steam.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
LastspikemikeThere is a more obvious explanation for any widespread misunderstanding of what I write. It is a more probable explanation also.
Personally, I thought it was pretty clear from context that lastspikemike's original discussion involved relative cost of model, not actual, steam. Where this in any way involved transition-era economics ... which is where the next few 'corrective' posts came from ... I'm not certain. But we were then treated to a somewhat revisionist dissertation on why diesels were self-obviously superior to steam power, followed by an amusing comparison of replica steam locomotives to production freight diesel-electric power (even the '90s contretemps about the Chinese replica Hudson establishing the fallacy fairly compellingly, and much of the work product from 5550 backing it up).
Meanwhile, despite valiant efforts to return the thread to its discussion of BLI decoders, the misunderstanding persists. It should be pretty easy to assess the fabrication costs of model steam vs. diesel without any reference to maintenance and service cost of the prototype, resale value for equipment trusts as for NYO&W, perhaps-strategic elimination of key auxiliary and specialized-material production for large locomotives, etc. But that really belongs in its own thread, doesn't it, as there are very few if any structural differences between steam and diesel decoders, and those that might matter could be incorporated 'in silico' at design time for only trivial cost increment in production.
Overmod Lastspikemike There is a more obvious explanation for any widespread misunderstanding of what I write. It is a more probable explanation also. Meanwhile, despite valiant efforts to return the thread to its discussion of BLI decoders, the misunderstanding persists.
Lastspikemike There is a more obvious explanation for any widespread misunderstanding of what I write. It is a more probable explanation also.
Meanwhile, despite valiant efforts to return the thread to its discussion of BLI decoders, the misunderstanding persists.
And ride behind it. Last time I was there, I was the cutoff guy in line for the caboose ride - then the park volunteer controlling the line said "unless you want to sit up in the cupola". Well DUH? Needless to say, I did not wait until the next train.
I also did a ride behind the NKP GP9. With a nice photo runby at the turnaround point.
If you make it next year, let me know, it's been a couple of years since I was last there, and it's only like 2 hours away.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Engi1487 Overmod Lastspikemike There is a more obvious explanation for any widespread misunderstanding of what I write. It is a more probable explanation also. Meanwhile, despite valiant efforts to return the thread to its discussion of BLI decoders, the misunderstanding persists. Hey Overmod, thanks for mentioning that. I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic. I dont even know what is being talked about in regards to steam locomotive equipment. Hope you got my PM asking about the N&W Class As.
Hey Overmod, thanks for mentioning that. I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic. I dont even know what is being talked about in regards to steam locomotive equipment. Hope you got my PM asking about the N&W Class As.
Well I think it was answered within the first page. BLI uses a proprietary decoder because they can. Their business decision, for whatever exact reason, was that developing their own was a better option than using an existing one. At the time they quit using QSI, there weren't many options. Soundtraxx was way late with Tsunami - from the time they annouces untilt hey actually delivered, ESU for example went through 3 revisions of their sound decoders. At the time of the initial announcement, Tsunami features were light years beyond anyone else's - but by the time they were delivered, they had already been surpassed. TCS was not yet making sound decoders. So the powers that be at BLI decided to make their own, with the features they wanted.
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example: 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad. What did you value your time at to rework the steam engines? Nothing because it is a hobby, and my hobby is building model trains and model train layouts, not collecting expensive models build by others. I applaud your efforts, and the locomotives look very good. However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative when trying to claim steam is less expensive on your layout. If you are not putting a value on your time, no doubt you could get some blue box F units for less than $30. They can be made to look very nice, although it takes a lot of effort. Then steam would be more expensive. Also a Genesis F unit costing $125, even non DCC, is hardly expensive.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example: 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad. What did you value your time at to rework the steam engines? Nothing because it is a hobby, and my hobby is building model trains and model train layouts, not collecting expensive models build by others.
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example: 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad. What did you value your time at to rework the steam engines?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Example: 4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500 2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300 Steam more expensive? not on my railroad.
Example:
4 Genesis non DCC F units, about $125 each when I bought them = $500
2 Bachmann 2-8-4's reworked into freelance 2-8-2's at a cost of $150 each including custom parts added = $300
Steam more expensive? not on my railroad.
What did you value your time at to rework the steam engines?
Nothing because it is a hobby, and my hobby is building model trains and model train layouts, not collecting expensive models build by others.
I applaud your efforts, and the locomotives look very good. However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative when trying to claim steam is less expensive on your layout. If you are not putting a value on your time, no doubt you could get some blue box F units for less than $30. They can be made to look very nice, although it takes a lot of effort. Then steam would be more expensive.
Also a Genesis F unit costing $125, even non DCC, is hardly expensive.
First not every steam loco on my layout was a kit bashing project, many are more or less stock.
Second, those non DCC Genesis F units for $125 were purchased about the same time as the $150 steam loco kit bashing project. At that time, the DC versions of the Bachmann 2-8-4 sold for about $120, plus the parts for the project. That was all about 6-7 years ago.
Sheldon
Engi1487 Hey Overmod, thanks for mentioning that. I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic. I dont even know what is being talked about in regards to steam locomotive equipment.
Hey Overmod, thanks for mentioning that. I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic. I dont even know what is being talked about in regards to steam locomotive equipment.
Rich
Alton Junction
Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330......... Sheldon NOW you tell me? What are the equivalent diesels going for there?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330......... Sheldon
TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330.........
NOW you tell me? What are the equivalent diesels going for there?
In model form or prototype, you can't compare a single EMD F7 to any but the smallest steam.
To do the job of a any medium sized mainline steam loco you are going to need two or three of those EMD F units.
So, Athearn Genesis F unit AB sets with DCC and sound are $600 retail and sell for $476 at Trainworld.
That's more than the decapod, it is even more than two Bachmann Mikado's with sound which I can buy for $200 each.
So double headed Bachmann Mikado's would cost me $400, Double headed Broadway Mikados would be $500 and a set of ABA Genesis F units would be $740.
Again, I run long trains, my average train has 3-4 diesels, or one large steamer, or two medium steam locos. In nearly every case there is more money in front of every diesel train than there is in front of my steam trains.
And I'm a very good shopper........
rrebell Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330......... Sheldon NOW you tell me? What are the equivalent diesels going for there? I bought an S4 DCC and sound for under $60. GP7 under $90, GP30's and 38's under $100.
I bought an S4 DCC and sound for under $60. GP7 under $90, GP30's and 38's under $100.
Depends a lot on the brand, the detail level and features, steam or diesel.
Sheldon,Just for the heck of it, I looked up wheel lathes and (believe it or not) there is more than just one shop capable of turning 80" drivers. Sure, there's Strasburg (where UP sent their Big Boy wheels), but there's also Tennessee Valley RR (they have a 90" machine) and Steamtown (which I've seen personally).
Paul3 Sheldon,Just for the heck of it, I looked up wheel lathes and (believe it or not) there is more than just one shop capable of turning 80" drivers. Sure, there's Strasburg (where UP sent their Big Boy wheels), but there's also Tennessee Valley RR (they have a 90" machine) and Steamtown (which I've seen personally).
That's good to know, I think at the time I heard that, those other machines were not in running order and it was not assured they would be repaired. That was some years ago.
A friend of a friend, now retired, worked in the shop at Strasburg and was head of the Thomas project, we got the deluxe off the books tour.
I believe he did use the phrase "only current working" "of this size" when discussing the wheel lathe.
Again, that is great news for steam preservation.
I was a Strasburg today, taking some of the grandkids on the Santa Train.
#90 is out of the shop, recertified, and pulling the largest possible consist their siding will hold, including READING business car #10.
I need to get down and get a ride in #10. I've been in pretty much every other type of car they run, and did a walkthrough of #10 a few years ago, but nnever got to ride in it. Even got to ride the motor car - I did the full pass one time and took a few rides, did the shop tour, and then I saw they posted a notice that the last run of the day was going to be on the motor car so I made sure to be in line early.
We now have Reading business car #15 at the museum.
Engi1487I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic.
Ha Ha my thread on layout builidng turned into a hockey thread.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
BigDaddy Engi1487 I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic. Ha Ha my thread on layout builidng turned into a hockey thread.
Engi1487 I am a bit overwhelmed as my discussion thread kinda got off topic.
I often think that there is no such thing as "off topic" with discussion threads on a forum where everything is fair game. If there is such a thing as off topic, then most threads on this forum eventually go off topic.
That is because the off topic threads like the diner one feel like someone is guiding them and this one in particular can be silly, just not me. They also don't have a natural conversation way of changing subjects. When people talk they tend to beat out a subject and gradually move on when an impass or resolution has been reached, just my feeling
rrinkerIf you make it next year, let me know, it's been a couple of years since I was last there, and it's only like 2 hours away.
I surely will.
I am very upset that my October trip was scrapped this year. I wanted to start at Timonium and meet Sheldon and others, go on Strasburg and Steam Town, then drive to Maine, and finally pop over to Ohio and meet Ed.
I have met many people from the forum face-to-face, and it has always been nice to see them.
All was lost, but hopefully I can do it in 2021.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330......... Sheldon NOW you tell me? What are the equivalent diesels going for there? In model form or prototype, you can't compare a single EMD F7 to any but the smallest steam. To do the job of a any medium sized mainline steam loco you are going to need two or three of those EMD F units. So, Athearn Genesis F unit AB sets with DCC and sound are $600 retail and sell for $476 at Trainworld. That's more than the decapod, it is even more than two Bachmann Mikado's with sound which I can buy for $200 each. So double headed Bachmann Mikado's would cost me $400, Double headed Broadway Mikados would be $500 and a set of ABA Genesis F units would be $740. Again, I run long trains, my average train has 3-4 diesels, or one large steamer, or two medium steam locos. In nearly every case there is more money in front of every diesel train than there is in front of my steam trains. And I'm a very good shopper........ Sheldon
Internet Hobbies is selling an AB set of Broadway Limited PRR F7's for $319.99. Using their Cyber Monday code this morning, I was able to get a set for $224.00. Of course, since it is Broadway Limited, it also comes with DCC and sound.
Lombard Hobbies has C&O and Frisco Athearn Genesis F units on sale for $369.99 for an AB set.
An "expensive model collector"
SeeYou190 rrinker If you make it next year, let me know, it's been a couple of years since I was last there, and it's only like 2 hours away. I surely will. I am very upset that my October trip was scrapped this year. I wanted to start at Timonium and meet Sheldon and others, go on Strasburg and Steam Town, then drive to Maine, and finally pop over to Ohio and meet Ed. I have met many people from the forum face-to-face, and it has always been nice to see them. All was lost, but hopefully I can do it in 2021. -Kevin
rrinker If you make it next year, let me know, it's been a couple of years since I was last there, and it's only like 2 hours away.
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330......... Sheldon NOW you tell me? What are the equivalent diesels going for there? In model form or prototype, you can't compare a single EMD F7 to any but the smallest steam. To do the job of a any medium sized mainline steam loco you are going to need two or three of those EMD F units. So, Athearn Genesis F unit AB sets with DCC and sound are $600 retail and sell for $476 at Trainworld. That's more than the decapod, it is even more than two Bachmann Mikado's with sound which I can buy for $200 each. So double headed Bachmann Mikado's would cost me $400, Double headed Broadway Mikados would be $500 and a set of ABA Genesis F units would be $740. Again, I run long trains, my average train has 3-4 diesels, or one large steamer, or two medium steam locos. In nearly every case there is more money in front of every diesel train than there is in front of my steam trains. And I'm a very good shopper........ Sheldon Internet Hobbies is selling an AB set of Broadway Limited PRR F7's for $319.99. Using their Cyber Monday code this morning, I was able to get a set for $224.00. Of course, since it is Broadway Limited, it also comes with DCC and sound. Lombard Hobbies has C&O and Frisco Athearn Genesis F units on sale for $369.99 for an AB set.
All the locos in the example above are DCC w/sound, even though I don't use DCC or sound.
DCC or not, Broadway diesels are not generally up to my detail standards. They are better detailed than stuff like Bachmann, but not Genesis or Intermountain quality of detail.
There will always be "deals", but often they are outliers.
SeeYou190 n012944 However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative I look at this differently than you do. The time I spend building highly detailed resin freight car kits is not an asset spent, but a benefit gained. Hobby time is something I look forward to, and I get a lot out of. I don't just get a beautiful model, but I relax, my head clears, the real world goes away, and I gain happiness. Trying to value my time added does not make sense. I will buy more expensive resin kits partly because they will take more time to build. I would suggest to subtract the value of my time to bring a Yarmouth kit ($60.00) down to the same cost as an Accurail kit ($15.00). -Kevin
n012944 However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative
I look at this differently than you do.
The time I spend building highly detailed resin freight car kits is not an asset spent, but a benefit gained.
Hobby time is something I look forward to, and I get a lot out of. I don't just get a beautiful model, but I relax, my head clears, the real world goes away, and I gain happiness.
Trying to value my time added does not make sense.
I will buy more expensive resin kits partly because they will take more time to build.
I would suggest to subtract the value of my time to bring a Yarmouth kit ($60.00) down to the same cost as an Accurail kit ($15.00).
I get this, however I look at it as there is only 24 hours in day. 6 hours are gone for sleep, 9 hours gone for my main job plus back and forth commute. Owning two buisnesses takes around another 4 hours out of the day. That leaves 5 hours to be around the family, and do any hobby stuff that I have, be it racing at the track, or working and or running my models.
If I am able to get a set of Broadway Limited F units for $100 dollars more than a set of Walthers F units and save myself 5 hours of detailing to make them look just as good, I will. And if that makes me "an expensive model collector" vs a model builder, as Sheldon described it, so be it.
Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL Lastspikemike ATLANTIC CENTRAL TrainWorld has those $579 retail Bachmann Decapods for $330......... Sheldon NOW you tell me? What are the equivalent diesels going for there? In model form or prototype, you can't compare a single EMD F7 to any but the smallest steam. To do the job of a any medium sized mainline steam loco you are going to need two or three of those EMD F units. So, Athearn Genesis F unit AB sets with DCC and sound are $600 retail and sell for $476 at Trainworld. That's more than the decapod, it is even more than two Bachmann Mikado's with sound which I can buy for $200 each. So double headed Bachmann Mikado's would cost me $400, Double headed Broadway Mikados would be $500 and a set of ABA Genesis F units would be $740. Again, I run long trains, my average train has 3-4 diesels, or one large steamer, or two medium steam locos. In nearly every case there is more money in front of every diesel train than there is in front of my steam trains. And I'm a very good shopper........ Sheldon I like this point very much. Our layout is a mountain area with 1-3% grades. Double heading is required even for steam unless the train is short. My five car brass passenger consist is just doable by my BLI Mikado. The Spectrum Consolidations need to team up. I have not yet tried my late model Bachman Ten Wheeler which is supposed to haul this consist. So, when buying steam power versus diesel power you can save money even on a model railroad, or can you?
I like this point very much. Our layout is a mountain area with 1-3% grades. Double heading is required even for steam unless the train is short. My five car brass passenger consist is just doable by my BLI Mikado. The Spectrum Consolidations need to team up. I have not yet tried my late model Bachman Ten Wheeler which is supposed to haul this consist.
So, when buying steam power versus diesel power you can save money even on a model railroad, or can you?
It depends, but I look at the cost of locomotives in those terms, what does it cost to power a train, not at the cost of each powered unit.
Even my best deals on DC diesels years ago put $200-$300 at the head end of 4 unit lashups.
My most expensive large steam, like a Broadway 2-6-6-4, or Rivarossi 4-6-6-6 were purchased for $300 or less and one of those locos can handle my max train.
Being DC, and having purchased most of my fleet over the last 20 years, my dollar cost average per powered unit is about $100. Not as easy to do today.
n012944If that makes me "an expensive model collector" vs a model builder, so be it.
I would never make this distinction. I have brass freight cars that cost me as much as a nice locomotive, and I have freight cars reworked from Tyco $1.00 table garbage.
I pick my hobby pleasure from lots of different trees. I do not concern myself with how anyone else would categorize me.
n012944 SeeYou190 n012944 However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative I look at this differently than you do. The time I spend building highly detailed resin freight car kits is not an asset spent, but a benefit gained. Hobby time is something I look forward to, and I get a lot out of. I don't just get a beautiful model, but I relax, my head clears, the real world goes away, and I gain happiness. Trying to value my time added does not make sense. I will buy more expensive resin kits partly because they will take more time to build. I would suggest to subtract the value of my time to bring a Yarmouth kit ($60.00) down to the same cost as an Accurail kit ($15.00). -Kevin I get this, however I look at it as there is only 24 hours in day. 6 hours are gone for sleep, 9 hours gone for my main job plus back and forth commute. Owning two buisnesses takes around another 4 hours out of the day. That leaves 5 hours to be around the family, and do any hobby stuff that I have, be it racing at the track, or working and or running my models. If I am able to get a set of Broadway Limited F units for $100 dollars more than a set of Walthers F units and save myself 5 hours of detailing to make them look just as good, I will. And if that makes me "an expensive model collector" vs a model builder, as Sheldon described it, so be it.
You raised the issue of putting a dollar value on hobby time, I didn't. I buy plenty that is fully detailed and ready to go, so that I can spend my hobby time on the building projects that are most important to me, while still achieving my total detail and quality goals for the layout.
And I was a young workaholic once too. Been self employed most of my life.
I build models because it is fun, and relaxing, and because in general I will not just "settle" for what happens to be "available".
ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 SeeYou190 n012944 However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative I look at this differently than you do. The time I spend building highly detailed resin freight car kits is not an asset spent, but a benefit gained. Hobby time is something I look forward to, and I get a lot out of. I don't just get a beautiful model, but I relax, my head clears, the real world goes away, and I gain happiness. Trying to value my time added does not make sense. I will buy more expensive resin kits partly because they will take more time to build. I would suggest to subtract the value of my time to bring a Yarmouth kit ($60.00) down to the same cost as an Accurail kit ($15.00). -Kevin I get this, however I look at it as there is only 24 hours in day. 6 hours are gone for sleep, 9 hours gone for my main job plus back and forth commute. Owning two buisnesses takes around another 4 hours out of the day. That leaves 5 hours to be around the family, and do any hobby stuff that I have, be it racing at the track, or working and or running my models. If I am able to get a set of Broadway Limited F units for $100 dollars more than a set of Walthers F units and save myself 5 hours of detailing to make them look just as good, I will. And if that makes me "an expensive model collector" vs a model builder, as Sheldon described it, so be it. You raised the issue of putting a dollar value on hobby time, I didn't.
You raised the issue of putting a dollar value on hobby time, I didn't.
I never said you did. However you made the "expensive model collector", comment long before I asked about a dollar value for time.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL I build models because it is fun, and relaxing, and because in general I will not just "settle" for what happens to be "available". Sheldon
And again, that is great for you. Just don't call someone an "expensive model collector" because they do the hobby different than you do. One thing that is great about this hobby is there are many ways to enjoy it.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Broadway diesels are not generally up to my detail standards. They are better detailed than stuff like Bachmann, but not Genesis or Intermountain quality of detail. Sheldon
I don't see it that way. Looking at F units, the Broadway and Genesis units are neck and neck. I have F7's from each builer, and each have their issues. The Genesis coming with the "wonderful" plastic couplers, the Broadway lacking rear MU hoses. Other than that, they are pretty close. The Intermountain F unit is nowhere near to the other two's level of detail. I would equate it to a Stewart F unit of the 90's, OK for its time, but out dated. I prefer the WalthersPROTO F unit over the Intermountain.
n012944 Internet Hobbies is selling an AB set of Broadway Limited PRR F7's for $319.99. Using their Cyber Monday code this morning, I was able to get a set for $224.00. Of course, since it is Broadway Limited, it also comes with DCC and sound. Lombard Hobbies has C&O and Frisco Athearn Genesis F units on sale for $369.99 for an AB set.
Are you sure this place is legit? With a 30% coupon for cyber monday, most of thier items are far below market price. On google and yelp, theres like 20 reviews, with an average of 1.2 stars. Many people are saying its a scam, and if you google maps the location, its near a hospital, and its a picture of an old suburban home and/or a weedy patch of trees, depending on which address you trust.
Also, they have stock of many long gone items.
Charles
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Modeling the Santa Fe & Pennsylvania in HO
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLb3FRqukolAtnD1khrb6lQ
Instagram (where I share projects!): https://www.instagram.com/trainman440
n012944 Looking at F units, the Broadway and Genesis units are neck and neck. I have F7's from each builer, and each have their issues. The Genesis coming with the "wonderful" plastic couplers, the Broadway lacking rear MU hoses. Other than that, they are pretty close. The Intermountain F unit is nowhere near to the other two's level of detail. I would equate it to a Stewart F unit of the 90's, OK for its time, but out dated. I prefer the WalthersPROTO F unit over the Intermountain.
Looking at F units, the Broadway and Genesis units are neck and neck. I have F7's from each builer, and each have their issues. The Genesis coming with the "wonderful" plastic couplers, the Broadway lacking rear MU hoses. Other than that, they are pretty close. The Intermountain F unit is nowhere near to the other two's level of detail. I would equate it to a Stewart F unit of the 90's, OK for its time, but out dated. I prefer the WalthersPROTO F unit over the Intermountain.
n012944 ATLANTIC CENTRAL n012944 SeeYou190 n012944 However to not put a value on your time creates a false narrative I look at this differently than you do. The time I spend building highly detailed resin freight car kits is not an asset spent, but a benefit gained. Hobby time is something I look forward to, and I get a lot out of. I don't just get a beautiful model, but I relax, my head clears, the real world goes away, and I gain happiness. Trying to value my time added does not make sense. I will buy more expensive resin kits partly because they will take more time to build. I would suggest to subtract the value of my time to bring a Yarmouth kit ($60.00) down to the same cost as an Accurail kit ($15.00). -Kevin I get this, however I look at it as there is only 24 hours in day. 6 hours are gone for sleep, 9 hours gone for my main job plus back and forth commute. Owning two buisnesses takes around another 4 hours out of the day. That leaves 5 hours to be around the family, and do any hobby stuff that I have, be it racing at the track, or working and or running my models. If I am able to get a set of Broadway Limited F units for $100 dollars more than a set of Walthers F units and save myself 5 hours of detailing to make them look just as good, I will. And if that makes me "an expensive model collector" vs a model builder, as Sheldon described it, so be it. You raised the issue of putting a dollar value on hobby time, I didn't. I never said you did. However you made the "expensive model collector", comment long before I asked about a dollar value for time. ATLANTIC CENTRAL I build models because it is fun, and relaxing, and because in general I will not just "settle" for what happens to be "available". Sheldon And again, that is great for you. Just don't call someone an "expensive model collector" because they do the hobby different than you do. One thing that is great about this hobby is there are many ways to enjoy it.
Not true, my collector comment was in my first response to you.
I stated what I am not, I did not express any judgment about that regarding others, just to imply it does not interest me. You implied more so you could be offended.
I have since explained my position, relating to Mikes original comments about locomotive cost, rather clearly I think. Mike understood after several examples.
I don't know you, I don't have any beef with you, you tried to dissect my example because I used a loco I had modified. I explained that many of my locos are not modified, or not to that extent, still you are relentless.
Yes, I don't use DCC at home, but have logged hundreds of DCC hours on other layouts. Yes, I don't like onboard sound, I build HiFi speakers as another hobby. Onboard sound in HO sounds like a nine transistor radio to me. Don't be offended if you like sound, I won't think less of you.
Yes, I think Broadway has missed a lot of business by not selling DC versions (DCC ready).
Yes, I'm not interested in buying a random collection of large famous locomotives from different railroads all over the country, and I don't model the PRR, UP, ATSF, etc so most of what Broadway offers is if no interest for that reason as well.
Does any of that mean I think less of others with different goals or tastes in this hobby? No.
richhotrain n012944 Looking at F units, the Broadway and Genesis units are neck and neck. I have F7's from each builer, and each have their issues. The Genesis coming with the "wonderful" plastic couplers, the Broadway lacking rear MU hoses. Other than that, they are pretty close. The Intermountain F unit is nowhere near to the other two's level of detail. I would equate it to a Stewart F unit of the 90's, OK for its time, but out dated. I prefer the WalthersPROTO F unit over the Intermountain. I would vote hands down for the Genesis F7 as the best of the best. Rich
I would vote hands down for the Genesis F7 as the best of the best.
Yes, no question for me as well.