I run DC at home (3 cab, Aristocraft) and DCC at the club.
At the club and at home, an Opssession lasts 2 hrs, usually a bit less. So I agree that very few locos per operator are need for us. Bigger, longer operating sessions require more locos, and converting would be expensive. But as pointed out, starting POB at home would be comparable to starting DCC from home, if both were starting from scratch.
The problem I see with both POB and DCC, at home. is the level of knowledge to get started.
The batteries really are small enough now for two hours of actual running (just happens to be the average runtime people seem to need). This is done with newer batteries and better motors. I have a Bull Ant I bought for this purpose.
Back to the OP. Call it on board power. Don't overlook it, IMO.
Lets agree to eliminate the modeler that has too many or not enough locomotives that pick a number say 10. Maybe at that number to convert it does become expensive.
Let's look at the modeler with less then 10 locomotives or even 1, you remember, the new modeler. Those are the modelers that may like and enjoy POB, (power on board). They may also be the youngster this hobby is always crying for. But most of you wouldn't even suggest that to a new modeler. Why because it's not for you, so it can't be for anyone else. You folks are repeating the DC vs DCC debates, just now over battery power.
Why use a permenant box car? Just attach another locomotive to store the batteries and a second speaker so both units have sound, yes it would be a dummy. That's not out of the box thinking, that's running a RR that needs power. We have the technology, where have we heard that from. Dead Rail installs and others sell SAFE batteries and chargers for less then $100 USD. You only need the 1 charger. RailPro another proprietary system you folks don't like, can easily control the locomotive through the air and not via the rails. So can AirstoCraft and CVP-airwire for HO systems and larger.
Get out from just looking at this forum for your information. Trying staying on track with the thread an OP starts. Check into the DeadRail forums on, omg, Facebook. Look ahead not back.
I know people with many locomotives wont even think of switching. But don't kill an idea because it's not for you. Look forward and offer encouragement.
TomO
SeeYou190I think I mentioned in other places the biggest frustration in my house remodel is that there are exaclty two load bearing posts in the entire structure, and they are both in the only wall we really wanted to move. Of course that is where they were.
I know it's been joked about before on this forum, but in my case it's really true.
HGTV and DIY are two very dangerous cable TV channels. They give my wife the idea that each project can be completed in a half-hour.
When I point out some of the pitfalls for one of her projects, she says we'll just hire someone and they'll have it finished tomorrow.
York1 John
I asked my doctor if I gave up delicious food and all alcohol, would I live longer? He said, "No, but it will seem longer."
York1She then took the next step. Not a bearing wall, wall not needed ... I'll just cut it out.
I think I mentioned in other places the biggest frustration in my house remodel is that there are exaclty two load bearing posts in the entire structure, and they are both in the only wall we really wanted to move.
Of course that is where they were.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
Overmod was impressed with this marvel of technology and told the construction superintendant So when I saw him the next morning ... he turned white. Seems the client had asked to have a little ornamental column indicated by the plan at the corner of the breakfast room removed... the problem was that it wasn't ornamental.
That was another of my mistakes. I had earlier explained to her that this part of the house had trusses spanning the entire area. She then took the next step. Not a bearing wall, wall not needed ... I'll just cut it out.
rrebellI can tell lots of stories of things going wrong with no clue that that could happen.
My wife has lots of wants too, she never relizes how much work is involved. Also there are things that go wrong in any job and having been in the trades and been a landlord, I can tell lots of stories of things going wrong with no clue that that could happen. Once was cutting plaster out of a corner, not even into the studs, someone had run a wire in the corner and just plastered over it, a full 110 volt wire, the sparks flew.
Track fiddlerI think she had the right idea and I liked her Ideas immediately and you must have too!
She had the right idea, but I didn't like it right away. All I could see was all the work I had to do.
Perfect!
And how did you feel after you got that all done John?
I think she had the right idea and I liked her Ideas immediately and you must have too!
You are one of the lucky ones blessed with a really good wife John
I like the before picture! Do you happen to have the after? ... After all your hard beautiful work you did after that?
TF
Track fiddlerThe beginning your post made me laugh but the ending of your post made me really sad
Since we talked about tools, a mistake I made was in showing my wife my DeWalt reciprocating saw.
About 15 years ago, I came home from work to find that my wife decided our house needed to be more 'open concept'. She had cut out four walls, including this one behind the kitchen stove. Thankfully she had not cut any wires or pipes.
What she started in one day took me three months of work to finish. I had to reroute several circuits of wiring, a cold air return, etc.
Ahhh!
The beginning your post made me laugh but the ending of your post made me really sad
Keep your chin up John I've always seen you as a very good man!
And I know that you are
Track fiddlerI just wanted to make sure you didn't Jinks yourself so your tool works fine the next time you go to use it
I won't know for a long time!
I'm basically finished with my house unless my wife decides to knock a wall out (which she's done before).
In the spring, I may need to use the saw to cut some more concrete bricks if I decide to lay another walkway. Otherwise, that saw will be in my shed when my daughters have to clean the place out after my funeral.
Hey!
This is serious stuff John!
I just wanted to make sure you didn't Jinks yourself so your tool works fine the next time you go to use it
Track Fiddler
I don't know what that tradition is that you knock on wood when you feel something is going to jinks you but it seems to work
I know what you're saying but you'll be okay!
Just find someplace in your house and knock on wood John! Knock on wood!
It's not too late
I hate to talk about how well something has worked, because now when I use it next time, it will quit. I also know that if I buy another one exactly like it, it will quit after two minutes.
That's cool John.
My 10" MK Diamond slide tub saw that disappeared with everything else I owned was not replaced.
I miss that saw but I've been getting by with a 7 inch Ridgid table wet saw. I put a $50 blade on it and seems to be doing okay with the few tile jobs that I get now.
Seems your saw has done all right for you as long as you keep a newer blade on it like you've been doing
And I think you are exactly right that something will come about this ever so advancing battery technology these days
We are talking about today's technology.
With the way things are changing, I have no doubt we will have breakthroughs in battery size, power, and length of service.
This is a little off topic, but since we're talking about tools ...
Years ago I was putting porcelain tile in a room. I rented a tile wet saw from the tool rental place for $50 per day. Naturally, it took me several days.
Later, when I was ready to tile our basement, I was looking at a fortune for the rental.
At Menards, I bought a little plastic tile wet saw with a 4½" blade, for $55.00. I figured if I got two days out of it, I was way ahead.
Fast forward 15 years. I tiled the entire basement using that saw. I cut several hundred concrete 2" thick bricks for a patio and walkway. I've cut several other materials with it. I've replaced the blade several times, but the cheap little saw continues to work just as well as the large rental saw. I have no idea how many hundreds of dollars I've saved.
Track fiddlerPlenty of room and drivers could be put in box cars with the battery in the same car powering the train.
Unacceptable for anyone that does any sort of realistic operating. And/Or runs trains with no boxcars (logging roads, coal drags, etc.)
That approach only works if the boxcar is permanently mated to the engine which is a complete non-starter for me and many others.
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
I have always bought more spendy quality tools in a planned purchase. As the old saying goes "You get what you pay for" is true of course.
There were times though when my job was so far away and I would realize I did not have the tool I needed for the job and would go buy a cheap one just to get me through the day.
I still have some of those cheap tools, Ryobi being one of them. The whole key is always keeping a sharp blade on your tool and letting the blade do the work and not the tool. If one makes this a faithful practice, sometimes even the cheap tools don't wear out.
rrinker I've always used DeWalt, as a former relative who was a professional contractor used only DeWalt, and if it was good enough for a pro - for something I will use a lot, I will spend the money and get the good stuff, for something I might need only once or twice, I don't mind getting the cheaper one. ALL of the older tools that use NiCad packs, if used with any regularity, either no longer hold much of a charge, or have outright failed. Nature of the beast. All the new ones use lithium packs. DeWalt has an adapter to let you use new lithium batteries with the old NiCad tools, so my old drill/driver had a new life. I also took a chance on one of the "no name" batteris available on Amazon. It claims to be a 6AH battery, it was cheaper than the 2AH DeWalt battery. In truth, it seems to be more like a 4AH battery - still double (not triple) the life of the 2AH DeWalt for a lower price, so despite not being exactly what it claims to be, it's still a bargain. I will get more if I need them - I now have 5 batteries and 2 chargers, though two of them are the really low 1.5AH ones that came witht he one drill/driver, they run down fast when building benchwork. I have 2 of the 1AH ones that came with the adtaper, on the new drill/driver and in the impact driver, they last a decent amount of time - more than long enough for one to recharge while using the other. And then I have the big beefy one to fall back on. Most any of these, if removed from the oversize plastic case, could fit in all but the smaller G scale locos, and probably give a pretty nice long run time. --Randy
I've always used DeWalt, as a former relative who was a professional contractor used only DeWalt, and if it was good enough for a pro - for something I will use a lot, I will spend the money and get the good stuff, for something I might need only once or twice, I don't mind getting the cheaper one.
ALL of the older tools that use NiCad packs, if used with any regularity, either no longer hold much of a charge, or have outright failed. Nature of the beast. All the new ones use lithium packs. DeWalt has an adapter to let you use new lithium batteries with the old NiCad tools, so my old drill/driver had a new life. I also took a chance on one of the "no name" batteris available on Amazon. It claims to be a 6AH battery, it was cheaper than the 2AH DeWalt battery. In truth, it seems to be more like a 4AH battery - still double (not triple) the life of the 2AH DeWalt for a lower price, so despite not being exactly what it claims to be, it's still a bargain. I will get more if I need them - I now have 5 batteries and 2 chargers, though two of them are the really low 1.5AH ones that came witht he one drill/driver, they run down fast when building benchwork. I have 2 of the 1AH ones that came with the adtaper, on the new drill/driver and in the impact driver, they last a decent amount of time - more than long enough for one to recharge while using the other. And then I have the big beefy one to fall back on.
Most any of these, if removed from the oversize plastic case, could fit in all but the smaller G scale locos, and probably give a pretty nice long run time.
--Randy
SpaceMouse But the idea of parking a loco on a roundhouse recharge track, has a certain appeal.
But the idea of parking a loco on a roundhouse recharge track, has a certain appeal.
That is a brilliant thought.
Kind of like that robotic vacuum cleaner that Finds Its way back to its charging station. Roomba I think?
All your other points were well taken as well Chip. You could have all the modern day technology of lithium batteries and remote control you want. But for some things a power source is definitely needed and old school holds its own.
Randy I was so bummed out when my tool trailer got stolen and all the contents were emptied. I lost my lifetime of DeWalt tools from that scam
Dead rail?
The rail is the easy part for wiring. Just two wires around the track. Where it gets complicated is everything else. You want signals. Dead track has no effect. You want lit structures? You want remote turnout control? Automatic turnout control? Dead track has no effect.
I mean really, we have the water towers, the sand houses, the fueling stations, but who uses them. A switcher can go indefinately without ever going to the service area. But with a battery, it has to go.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Track fiddler Point well taken Randy, Paul. I did notice the batteries for my Milwaukee Tools went from $100 to $150 a piece while I was at Home Depot the other day. It would definitely only become an alternative for the rich. The only rich I know of playing with their trains is Rod Stewart. I'm very sure there is many more though TF
Point well taken Randy, Paul.
I did notice the batteries for my Milwaukee Tools went from $100 to $150 a piece while I was at Home Depot the other day.
It would definitely only become an alternative for the rich. The only rich I know of playing with their trains is Rod Stewart. I'm very sure there is many more though
I have maintained for years that, when the technology permits, and when its costs permit all those involved to abide, battery-operated toy trains are going to be the future. How they're to be recharged is another matter, perhaps some kind of a 'docking station or wireless recharging as many smart phones and watches are currently charged, but built into a track element. But, when graphene batteries, or something just as spiffy, come on line, and can be purchased wholesale for about $4/unit, I think it will improve the appeal and running experience greatly.
If there is one serious drawback to DCC operations (only), it's the widespread complaint about intermittent movement and sounds. If there's one thing that could seriously affect the longevity of the hobby, it will be this.
Standardized dead rail for Model Railroads would solve so many problems. It's already popular for Garden Railroads. The key is having an industry standard like Microsoft OS did for the PC. The biggest headwind to it though is the existence of all the old DC/DCC equipment out there. Someone with tens of thousands of dollars tied up in older equipment isn't going to adopt the new technology. But new entrants into the hobby will probably be ectstatic with the idea.