Jumijo Someone needs to make an accurately detailed C-16 0-4-0 Docksider. There's something that has never been done.
Someone needs to make an accurately detailed C-16 0-4-0 Docksider. There's something that has never been done.
I'm a B&O fan, and a B&O modeler, but don't hold your breath on that one.
It's been done at least twice in brass, not to mention the millions of plastic ones from AHM, LIFE LIKE, VARNEY, Bowser......., and despite its popularity years ago, I don't think they would fly off shelves today.
Four locos that never really left a couple mile radius in their two city assignments?
All the best versions of the many copies are tollerable in their accuracy, and can be made run reasonably well.
Sheldon
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
what qualifies something as a significant gap?
i'm sure we all have some product potentially unique to the railroad (e.g. P&R, M&E) or type of railroad (e.g. subway, narrow gauge) we model that we would like to be able to buy.
but for some manufacturer, there needs to be a lot of somebodies that will purchase that product. is 1000 enough?
otherwise it seems 3d printing is an alternative.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Erie1951 xboxtravis7992 It would also be great to have some narrow gauge stuff that wasn't just Rio Grande. There's some EBT brass that shows up on eBay for HOn3 occasionally, but that's about it. I have always thought there should be a market for generic locomotives, and not sky-high priced brass, that NG modelers could use for their own railroads. If this was the case, especially in Sn3, I'd still be in that scale. Sn3 is dominated by one company selling really expensive brass locos, along with rolling stock, that's mostly Rio Grande with some geared locos and C&S models as well. I think that generic, reasonably priced NG equipment is a real market just waiting for a manufacturer in both HOn3 and Sn3.
xboxtravis7992 It would also be great to have some narrow gauge stuff that wasn't just Rio Grande.
It would also be great to have some narrow gauge stuff that wasn't just Rio Grande.
I mean I kind of understand the fame of the Rio Grande stuff being linked to the popularity of the modern day railroads in Durango and Cumbres... but the US has such a vast history of narrow gauge lines it seems strange to be so laser focused on the Rio Grande with the occasional EBT release snuck in there. Where is the love for lines like the White Pass and Yukon? SP's Carson and Colorado? Sumpter Valley? Even the Disney parks run on 3' gauge. Heck the only mass produced Uintah Railway rolling stock is Mantua's 2-6-6-2... and that's HO standard gauge instead of true scaled HOn3.
riogrande5761We need 1970's domestic sedans and station wagons for sure.
+ one.
Terry
Terry in NW Wisconsin
Queenbogey715 is my Youtube channel
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
Erie1951 Anything in HO traction from boxcabs to interurbans.
Anything in HO traction from boxcabs to interurbans.
Not just traction to, but I am surprised electric light rail has taken so long to start picking up. The new Bachmann-Siemmens deal is a godsend, and I am excitedly awaiting to see how those S70's turn out. Watching the new Stadler trains coming in and out of the Salt Lake factory on my daily commute to is enough to make me hope to see some Stadler stuff available in the US market. With how many cities are rebuilding their light rail and commuter rail systems I expect the next generation of railfans in 15-20 years or so will strongly associate trains with the passenger lines running now. As for more traditional freight rail stuff... We really have a very solid selection of freight cars and locomotives from the 1950's to the present day it seems. Now I can list some specific locomotives I would love to see available in wide plastic releases and not just in brass or 3D printing (the SP KM's, military units like the RS-4-TC and MRS-1, Baldwin diesels, MK5000c's, etc.) but there is a reason those locomotives are rare in mass production right now... they were owned by relatively few railroads, saw limited real life production (take the MK5000c that topped off at a mere six units), and never gained the fame other oddities (like Union Pacific's gas turbines) have. So while I would love to have a plastic RTR RS-4-TC with DCC/Sound and the works right out of the box, I understand it is such a niche engine I might have to wait many more years until someone tackles it. But as far as the most common diesels of the last 70 years have gone? We have enough SD40-2's and GP7's to last us a lifetime on the market now! Now as for era's, I do agree with the earlier sentiment early 20th century stuff is underepresented on the market right now. It would also be great to have some narrow gauge stuff that wasn't just Rio Grande. Lastly, I would like to see some more imports of foreign stuff become available in the US. Those OO scale stuff they sell in the UK is wonderful looking, and it almost has me tempted to maybe someday build a little UK style compact traveling show layout for them.
There is the Oxford HO vehicle line, they are offering vehicles that are different from the standard Ford/Chevy offerings (59 Pontiacs, 56 Buicks, Edsels)
dehusman
There are no appropriate coal cars for that era other than resin kits. There are no era appropriate switch engines for the 1880-1900 era That's a gap.
Being available only in resin is filling the gap isn't it?
Kevin
Well, maybe... The Westerfield GG wooden hopper (and similar) resin kit retails for $39. So if the early 1900's modeler needs a fleet of wooden coal hoppers/gons, the price and/or time required for resin kit assembly might put these kits out of reach; hence "a gap".
Walthers sells a USRA 2 bay hopper which lists for $18 and discounts for $14. Now if they would make similar kits for the GG, and a few similar hopper-gons... dhusman, "yours truly" and a few others here would be very happy. But as noted, we make a small market.
Jim
Agreed, this was a popular area of modeling in the 40's thru the 60's, now, like those trains, all gone.
Those of us who model the transition era could easily "add" an interurban line to our layouts if it was not a total scratch building project....
SeeYou190 Water Level Route When I was dabbling in N scale, I had a couple scale Volkswagon Beetles on my layout. . When I was in N scale, in High School, my first vehicle for the layout was a split rear window beetle. There were almost no North American automobiles back then. . I have a similar beetle in HO now. It is kind of neat to pose it sometimes. . -Kevin .
Water Level Route When I was dabbling in N scale, I had a couple scale Volkswagon Beetles on my layout.
.
When I was in N scale, in High School, my first vehicle for the layout was a split rear window beetle. There were almost no North American automobiles back then.
I have a similar beetle in HO now. It is kind of neat to pose it sometimes.
-Kevin
Oooh . . . I have a VW Microbus with a surfboard on top.
Neato, but I still need a few Macks and cab-over Petes to haul my containers around the layout. And I wouldn't say no if someone offered a Coke or a Walmart or a Budweiser delivery truck . . .
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
Water Level RouteWhen I was dabbling in N scale, I had a couple scale Volkswagon Beetles on my layout.
Living the dream.
NittanyLion doctorwayne azrail One of the reasons the auto makers (primarily GM) restrict licensing on model vehicles is the consumer product safety lawsuits. If your 3 year old swallows a scale model of a Chevy, then GM gets sued for damages. The GM licensed vehicles have to be large enough as not to be swallowed by a child. Therefore GM licenses very little on vehicles the size of HO scale or smaller. I'm not equipped to dispute what you say, but it seems ridiculous to me that a lawsuit involving an item at such a distance from its origin would stand up in court. Mind you, the law is an ass, and litigation is rampant, particularly in the U.S. I'm not a lawyer and don't even play one on the internet, but there's a zero percent chance of that actually being true. That distance is insane and there's no relation between the two. If there was, no one would license anything small and open themselves to litigation. GM, Ford, Porsche, Ferrari, and others all licensed their names and products to Lego, the ultimate in choking hazard toy. Plus, they do license small scale older vehicles, like classic Corvettes as is.
doctorwayne azrail One of the reasons the auto makers (primarily GM) restrict licensing on model vehicles is the consumer product safety lawsuits. If your 3 year old swallows a scale model of a Chevy, then GM gets sued for damages. The GM licensed vehicles have to be large enough as not to be swallowed by a child. Therefore GM licenses very little on vehicles the size of HO scale or smaller. I'm not equipped to dispute what you say, but it seems ridiculous to me that a lawsuit involving an item at such a distance from its origin would stand up in court. Mind you, the law is an ass, and litigation is rampant, particularly in the U.S.
azrail
One of the reasons the auto makers (primarily GM) restrict licensing on model vehicles is the consumer product safety lawsuits. If your 3 year old swallows a scale model of a Chevy, then GM gets sued for damages. The GM licensed vehicles have to be large enough as not to be swallowed by a child. Therefore GM licenses very little on vehicles the size of HO scale or smaller.
I'm not a lawyer and don't even play one on the internet, but there's a zero percent chance of that actually being true. That distance is insane and there's no relation between the two. If there was, no one would license anything small and open themselves to litigation. GM, Ford, Porsche, Ferrari, and others all licensed their names and products to Lego, the ultimate in choking hazard toy.
Plus, they do license small scale older vehicles, like classic Corvettes as is.
Mike
NittanyLion there's a zero percent chance of that actually being true.
I think you nailed it. Thank you.
Era correct vehicles - I model the early 50's and the selection is pretty good.
Yes some area little pricey.......
I have a small fleet of Evans 50' open auto racks that carry 6 vehicles, the first "experiment" with the open auto carrier. They are stocked with older LifeLike SceneMaster cars, generic 50's vehicles, one looks a lot like a 53' Chevy, another a lot like 50' Hudson or Buick, and another like a Ford pickup of the era - close enough for me.
Don't know if Walthers is still selling these, but in the LifeLike days they were cheap and readily available, and they look the part.
I also have some Resin "Tuckers" that I am going to load on a few of these Evan auto racks (Athearn 50' auto carrier, yes they really existed, at least two of them anyway)........
Stripping paint - I do it when I have to, but it is messy, time consuming and costs money.
I have in fact figured out that some model factory paint jobs can simply be successfully painted over, with no loss of detail and no "shadows", especially with the Scalecoat paint I use.
Lots of steps in painting models - one of the reasons I use Scalecoat - less steps - paint with gloss paint, decal, clearcoat with flat or semi gloss, lightly weather mainly with airbrush.
When Bachmann was offering Spectrum locos painted/unlettered, I successfully simply decaled, clear coated, lightly weathered.
And, when the RTR thing took hold, the undecorated versions were actually still kits, unassembled. This was true with lots of brands, Athearn, Bowser, etc, and is still true with stuff like Spring Mills Depot, Intermountain, etc.
I agree with Jim, disassembly of some of these RTR models is a pain.
Sure, I still buy lots of "new old stock" kits, decorated and undecoraterated, and again, do what I have to do, to build what I want. But given a choice, I would buy anything I am going to paint undecoratered.
Psychologically, I hate that sense that I paid for something I have to "undo".....
Just like I can't warm up to the idea of buying an expensive PECO turnout to then have to modify it for my needs......
I have lots of locos I bought with DCC decoders - but only when they were bargain priced below the "value" of the decoder I would be removing.
BigDaddyMike Budde who is all about modeling all sorts of auto racks. He has figured out how to do resin casting of models, shapeways I think, to fill his various autoracks. Budde gets a lot of airtime on the videos showing off his vehicles.
He has figured out how to do resin casting of models, shapeways I think, to fill his various autoracks. Budde gets a lot of airtime on the videos showing off his vehicles.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Eric you should watch Ken Patterson's youtube videos. (the may be searchable, but I haven't figured out how) He has a friend Mike Budde who is all about modeling all sorts of auto racks.
He has figured out how to do resin casting of models, shapeways I think, to fill his various autoracks. Budde gets a lot of airtime on the videos showing off his vehicles. He also worked for Verizon and builds company trucks.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
doctorwayne That certainly wasn't my intent, Jim,
That certainly wasn't my intent, Jim,
I don't thing the math teachers had mal intent either. I attribute it to a difference of perspective, or perhaps a blind spot.
but it seems to me that if a person is seeking undecorated stuff, they likely have a plan in mind and likely the skills to implement it. Even if they don't have all of the skills, I'd think that they'd feel confident in learning them as they work on their particular project, even if it involves asking questions of others who do have those skills.
Skills maybe so. But more time is involved as well. And that can make a difference.
I'm not equipped to dispute what you say, but it seems ridiculous to me that a lawsuit involving an item at such a distance from its origin would stand up in court. Mind you, the law is an ass, and litigation is rampant, particularly in the U.S.
SeeYou190 They probably have contracts with the producers of "authorized" replicas that require them to act when unauthorized replicas are being made. They are most likely taking minor action to abide by terms of these agreements. That sounds more plausible, and I suppose it does explain why the market's not flooded with affordable model vehicles.
SeeYou190 They probably have contracts with the producers of "authorized" replicas that require them to act when unauthorized replicas are being made. They are most likely taking minor action to abide by terms of these agreements.
riogrande5761...The tone I got from your comments remind me of people who are very familiar with a skill or process and because it apparently comes more naturally to them, they find it very easy to be critical of those who weren't necessarily born with your "chops" as it were....
That certainly wasn't my intent, Jim, but it seems to me that if a person is seeking undecorated stuff, they likely have a plan in mind and likely the skills to implement it. Even if they don't have all of the skills, I'd think that they'd feel confident in learning them as they work on their particular project, even if it involves asking questions of others who do have those skills. This Forum, and others like it, have many folks eager to offer assistance.
azrail One of the reasons the auto makers (primarily GM) restrict licensing on model vehicles is the consumer product safety lawsuits. If your 3 year old swallows a scale model of a Chevy, then GM gets sued for damages. The GM licensed vehicles have to be large enough as not to be swallowed by a child. Therefore GM licenses very little on vehicles the size of HO scale or smaller.
SeeYou190They probably have contracts with the producers of "authorized" replicas that require them to act when unauthorized replicas are being made. They are most likely taking minor action to abide by terms of these agreements.
SeeYou190Wayne: PLEASE keep sharing your workmanship and techniques. You are inspriational to me, and I eagerly learn from your skills and craftsmanship. -Kev
it strikes me as both odd and petty the automakers would be threatened or harmed by scale models of their earlier offerings.
I dont think that is what is going on.
They probably have contracts with the producers of "authorized" replicas that require them to act when unauthorized replicas are being made. They are most likely taking minor action to abide by terms of these agreements.
In defending your intellectual property, which out of production car designs fall under, you must act, or you lose the right to pursue protection in the future.
Look up the details of Games Workshop vs. Chapterhouse Studios to see how this can REALLY get out of proportion fast.
Copyrights are tricky, as our host can probably let us know.
Wayne: PLEASE keep sharing your workmanship and techniques. You are inspriational to me, and I eagerly learn from your skills and craftsmanship.
While I'm not in need of '70s-era automobiles, it strikes me as both odd and petty the automakers would be threatened or harmed by scale models of their earlier offerings. Since that seems to be the case, though, it strikes me as odd that they're not cashing in on the demand and offering such scale models themselves. Rather than spending money on lawyers "protecting" their intellectual property, they could be making money selling models of it - they're car makers, aren't they?
I've also noted several requests for the availability of undecorated models. As mentioned, there are various undecorated models still available from the past, in addition to more recent offerings from companies such as Rapido and Tangent.
However, those requesting such models are obviously capable of painting them to their own preferences, so why the reluctance to strip available models themselves? I would estimate that 95% of my locomotives and rolling stock are items that I've stripped and re-painted, with most also modified and re-detailed. There's not really any mystery to the process - you simply add one more step into a project which likely involves many more steps anyway, and some of them much more complicated than stripping paint.
Many of the gap-items mentioned are, not surprisingly, very specific. In other words, so obscure as to likely never be mass produced. Technology, such as 3-D printing may fill some of those gaps, but I can't see a lot of the items on this wish list ever being realised, unless those requesting them figure a way to do it themselves.
Yes
As for items being realized. Even 20 or so years ago, it seemed like we would never see a whole host of models that have since been produced, models that in many cases are finer, more detailed and better than brass of those times. I could listed quite a few but don't need to.
Of course there are some items, in my case, certain cabooses, that I don't ever expect to be offered in plastic, which is why I added yet another brass caboose recently.
But there are some, like the Extended Vision International cabooses that may very well be offered to match more prototypes in the future. Athearn Genesis has already unofficially announced one, and I believe there may be another in the works from someone else, time will tell. But as for what gets made that people want, it depends on era, RR and other things.
I expect one's perspective on what items will be mass produced is colored by their genre. A person interested in the civil war era (just an example) may have low expectations on seeing models produced. For my favorite time frame, 1970's and 1980's, my expectations are higher because I've seen so many excellent models produced, I expect that trend to continue and so far it has.
riogrande5761 SeeYou190 there was a company that made resin models called "Road Apples" that made EVERYTHING I could ever want. They must have had 30 different era-appropriate vehicles available in solid resin that looked great when painted. Then they were given Cease And Desist papers by a big automobile manufacturer and promptly stopped production.
SeeYou190
Then they were given Cease And Desist papers by a big automobile manufacturer and promptly stopped production.
BATMANProper Canadian steam locomotives that have the all weather enclosed cabs....
Eric White Inexpensive cars to fill open auto racks. They need 12 to 15 vehicles each, and they should primarily be boring sedans and station wagons.
Inexpensive cars to fill open auto racks. They need 12 to 15 vehicles each, and they should primarily be boring sedans and station wagons.
And they need to be fairly light so as not to make the car top heavy. Bachmann had a package of plastic generic boring autos (boring except for some atrocious colors but then there were atrocious colors in the 70s).
In looking at the Car Builder's Cycs for 1966, 1970, and 1974 there is still an entire generation of freight cars -- particularly tank cars -- that have yet to be produced in HO. The same can be said for the 1930s even though the transition era circa 1950 would seem to create a good market for cars built in the 30s.
Dave Nelson.
SeeYou190 BigDaddy canceled in 2018 and it still hasn't been produced, because of the China debacle.
BigDaddy canceled in 2018 and it still hasn't been produced, because of the China debacle.
As demonstrated on this forum, perception about gaps depends on your poison (i.e. favorite RR(s), favorite time frames, and special interests). This forum has more steam fans for example, others mostly diesel, etc. Fans of pre-WWII era find there is fewer choices etc.
The market is going to follow what sells, so being in a minority may have it's disadvantages.
riogrande5761 With 3D printing getting very widespread, it must be quite a job for the auto manufacturers to track them all down and tell them to stop. If what you need is avilable in 3D print, I would order it quickly. You never know. -Kevin
riogrande5761 With 3D printing getting very widespread, it must be quite a job for the auto manufacturers to track them all down and tell them to stop.
If what you need is avilable in 3D print, I would order it quickly. You never know.
Not going to happen. I don't have the time or desire, or extra funds) to buy and add-on "yet another" project that will likely sit on the shelves waiting for other projects waiting on the house projects.
And 3D stuff can actually cost as much or more than commercially produced products and cost is very much part of the equation. There are those who have the money, time and skill and have demonstrated that 3D auto's can be a modern alternative to the resin cast auto's of yor.
And shutting down 3D printing of auto's may not be so easy. If people have the electronic files for them, they can pass them to others and buy 3D print at home, assuming outfits like Shapeways put a stop to printing US domestic scale cars.
While I and others would like to see economical domestic autos for auto racks, in the mean time I'm hunting down items to populate auto racks bit by bit using what is availalbe on the market or secondary market. I've already filled to bi-levels with 70's Ford F100's and am working on other vehicles etc.
But this topic is about gaps, right? Even though I don't have time for additional projects, I would still like to see some items produced commercially. Many recognize the gap of needing appropriate era correct typical vehicles to load on open or semi open auto racks.