Today, under the guidance of an experienced hand layer, I layed my first 3 foot section of hand laid track. The effort took around 2 or 3 hours (note we already had the ties and balast glued down).
Now while doing this I began to realise how little handlaying seems to be done these days. The magazine coverage is practically non existant! I wonder how much of the MR staff has accually hand laid track. I wonder how many forum members have hand laid track, please comment below if you have of haven't. Note no shame is directed towards anyone because of their handlaying experience or lack of. This is a hobby and all are free to enjoy it any way they please!
There are likely reasons people do or don't hand lay. It does take alot of time and someone to teach it to you (an MR article on handlaying basics would be nice ). It doesn't require much skill, just time and a few tools. And I think is is alot better looking and alot higher quality than flextrack (just my though).
I am curious to see what forum members do in respect to hand laying. Do you or don't you do it. What rail, ties, and spikes do you use? Do you balast before or after laying the rail?
Finally I would like to see people's opinions about what they see from hand laying in the future!
And if you don't hand laid, why!
The porpose of the thread is to have a discusion about handlayed track, I encourage everyone to contribute!
Regards, Isaac
I model my railroad and you model yours! I model my way and you model yours!
I don't. On one of the MRVP projects, Winston Salem Southbound, Tony Koester laid a turnout and some track. I don't have anyone to teach me and I don't have all that much extra time. It would be cool to do a custom crossing, like Oak Hill produces.
There is a lot of facets to this hobby, I don't have to participate in all of them.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Also let me add a bit about my own hand laying experience. I did about a three foot section of HO track, all under the guidance of an experienced hand layer.
I used Micro Engineering weathered code 83 rail with ties that were homemade, spiked using mostly True Scale (I think) spikes from 50+ years ago. I also tried a few Micro Engineering spikes (which I didn't like due to extra large spike heads) and Shinohara (which I did like, but are out of stock (like many walthers products )).
I liked the result due to the realism of the wood ties and the extra effort I was able to put into quality control. I have been disapointed by the appearance of Micro Engineering flextrack's plastic ties.
When I did it we also balasted the ties before laying rail (though we did paint them first).
I have done some in the past using Walther's Goo. I have also done it using spikes.
These days I mostly do it when I need a short section of track between turnouts. I find it easier to get everything right using individual rails on ties.
Otherwise I find it too time consuming.
Paul
There are loads of people handlaying track. Fast Tracks, Oak Hill, and related products to assist in scratchbuilding turnouts, crossings, and even just plain track are popular.
In my local work group, we have two layouts where all the turnouts are scratchbuilt, one of which has nothing but handlaid track everywhere else too. I know of a couple other layouts nearby with entirely handlaid track, and several with handlaid turnouts - most of which were built using Fast Tracks jigs. These layouts include N scale, HO, Sn3, and On3.
As for myself, I've hand laid plenty of track, although my current doesn't have much. I prefer to get the track all the way in and weathered, with scenery completed around it, prior to ballasting. I use various small spikes, and Micro Engineering rail.
Rob Spangler
I can't, like others here, point to a handlaying "notch" in my belt and it's not on my bucket list either. No desire and certainly no time, a luxury I don't have much of for such things.
Its obvious you can get excellent looking track using commercial prefab track. Just look at Rob Spanglers layout photos if you need proof!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
i'll guess that Fast Tracks has created a resurgence. But i think there's a tradeoff for those that need a lot of turnouts and go the Fast Tracks route to save $$ and those that have a lot of turnouts and think it's too time consuming.
i learned to scratch build turnouts from Tony Koester's articles. But I read he used commercial turnouts on his latest layout.
Someone in our club is willing to build custom (curved) turnouts for others in the club. I wonder how common this is in other groups
the last turnout I built was a custom curved turnout. I was surprised at how quickly i built it once I created the template. I had previously built my turnouts on the layout, but built the curved one on the bench.
but after spiking the turnout in place, i replaced most of the PC ties with wooden ties and likes the looks.
i'm still learning about other approaches to building turnouts that look even easier.
i think it can be very satisfying if you don't have a lot of it to do.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
I learned how to hand lay track and build turnouts at the age of 15, that was 47 years ago, 1972.
I had several teachers, my father who first taught me to spike rail on TruScale milled roadbed, and assemble TruScale turnout kits, and then the several track experts at the Severna Park Model Railroad Club in the early 1970's who taught me the rest.
My second layout, build at age 16/17 was all hand laid track on Campbell profile ties.
Today, and for the last 25-30 years, I use mainly Atlas code 83 track and turnouts.
I do use my track building skills to solve special track problems.
But the layout I just disassembled for a move, and its replacement currently in the final stages of planning, require far too much track for me to go down the hand laid road. My double track mainline alone will require about 700' of track and the whole layout will require more than 100 turnouts.
And, I have come to prefer the electrical properties of the Atlas Custom line turnout.
In fact, to build several curved turnouts, I have developed methods for curving Atlas #6 and #8 turnouts. And have used Atlas frogs and points to "build" other custom turnouts.
Realism is subjective. Our HO trains are 1/87 scale. From three feet away you are 261 scale feet away. No one can see the wood grain of a railroad tie from 261 feet away.
Spikes every 6-8 ties is not realistic, last I checked the prototype spikes every tie.
Understand, I'm not knocking hand laid track, it was once the gold standard in this hobby and still holds an important place. But it's value is more in its custom turnout abilities than in its close up appearance.
Detail - some people prefer any detail, even if it is oversized. Others feel that if details will have to be oversized they might be better done without.
Commercial track gives us oversized "spiking" of some sort on every tie, even the best/most expensive brands are oversized in this regard.
Hand laid track leaves that fine detail of real spikes on every tie to our imagination - neither is wrong, just two different approaches.
Proper painting and weathering of any kind of track goes a long way in getting a realistic appearance.
Well painted Atlas track looks better than poorly colored hand laid track - just my opinion.
When I did it, back in the day, most rail came from Atlas or TruScale. Campbell was the top source for ties and ballast, TruScale and Kemtron had the best spikes.
That was a lifetime ago...........I still have lots of supplies........
Personally, no offense to anyone, but I laugh at the Fast Tracks stuff. It's cost defeats half the purpose of doing it yourself. I can do all that suff with a few files, a nice pine board, a hacksaw blade, and a few track gauges.
But looking at time vs money, vs features, vs benefits, I will take my Atlas track any day - again, except when I need something custom.........
Sheldon
Isaac, I've never handlaid any track and I've been in the hobby over 60 years. The reasons are mine and not casting judgement on others. First of all is the time involved. You say your first effort took two to three hours for three feet, with ties and ballast already in place. I can lay 20 times that of prefab (read that as flex) track in the same amount of time-without ballast of course. Then there is detail. I personally like to see four spike heads and two tieplates per tie. Handlaying leaves a large portion of the rail unsecured over the typical three foot span, giving the visual of just resting on the ties and not attached to them. I agree handlaying turnouts gives one more flexibility in track geometry, but there are turnout kits available that provide the flexibility and the detail of tieplates, spikes and the various pieces of hardware associated with turnouts.
Then, there is the learning curve. Your first effort took two to three hours for the first three feet. That should drop drastically as you progress. While gaining skill, how much of your earlier efforts will merit revisiting? The smaller the layout, the less time taken away from the other aspects such as wiring, rolling stock, scenery etc. As this is a hobby of predominately grey-hairs (like me) our manual dexterity and eyesight is not what it used to be. We don't have the time to invest in handlaying track if we still have dreams of The Grand Layout.
Handlaying track has been receiving less and less coverage in the hobby press over the years because of the same reasons scratch building and kit assembly are in decline-time and results. No one wants to spend two to three hours on laying three feet of track, only to possibly out of necessity, have to rip it up and start all over again. A large part of track laying involves self-discipline in not accepting "good enough". Nothing kills enthusiasm faster than trains that can't/won't stay on poorly laid track. One benefit of handlaying track is to build to a higher, finer standard than normally accepted. This would permit the use of finer standard wheels and trucks instead of those grossly oversized things currently accepted as standard. Putting the nth amount of detail into the models of today and mounting them on wheels and trucks that are from the days of sandcast boilers and cardstock carbodies is something that makes me scratch my grey head. In 60 years we still have wheels with treads three times the prototypical width. Because we're still accommodating standards set when handlaying track was the ONLY option. Have we really progressed beyond the code 100 brass outside third rail?One man's opinion, that's all.
NHTX, not really disagreeing with anything you said, but in regard to fine scale wheels and track I have one thought.
Commerical track manufactured to the necessary quality standards for Proto87 operation would be prohibitively expensive, possibly by a factor of 5 or more compared to current offerings.
Knowing it was all oversized way back when I started did not deter me from the hobby, and I would not invest in the necessary equipment to change over now.
In fact, I refuse to use semi scale wheels or couplers. The couplers while smaller, look funny and have gathering range issues.
And the semi scale wheels leave those big gaps at the side frames, trading one incorrect appearance for another.
Reasonable proportion is more import than exact scale size, just my view.
SPSOT fanI am curious to see what forum members do in respect to hand laying. Do you or don't you do it.
I just started model railroading last year after I retired. I did not even consider laying my own track.
With my lack of skills, it was important for me to get a train running as quickly as possible.
On the other hand, I have grown to love scratch-building structures as the best part of the hobby (for me).
York1 John
Wow, alot of responses, I had no idea people would be this interested!
gregc Someone in our club is willing to build custom (curved) turnouts for others in the club. I wonder how common this is in other groups
This is also done in the area my grandfather is in, many modelers are capable of building turnouts and will often build turnouts for others, or give people turnouts they don't need.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Realism is subjective. Our HO trains are 1/87 scale. From three feet away you are 261 scale feet away. No one can see the wood grain of a railroad tie from 261 feet away. Spikes every 6-8 ties is not realistic, last I checked the prototype spikes every tie.
I personally like the real wood ties, and I think it is easier to paint the ties when they are without rail than before. I agree that a spike every 6 ties is not much, but spikes are so small that flextrack ties are oversized. I think if you want realistic, good looking detail on track sides, add joint bar detail, though that is alot of work!
It seams time and skill are the most common reason people chose not to handlay. Very understandable! I personally like it thus far because it gives be something to do that is both relatively easy and rewarding! I has helped me to have someone who has years of experience helping me along the way.
I have yet to lay turnouts, and I beleive it will be sometime. The layout we are working on presently only contains the benchwork for the mainline, and has yet to present a chance for me to give turnout laying a try. I have never seen a fast tracks jig in person, modelers in my area do not use them.
I tried it once, unsupervised. Huge fail. HO scale here, BTW. But I can and do hand lay turnouts (self taught), since I use code 70 M.E. flex track, and some code 55. Code 70 and 55 turnouts are hard to find and expensive. Mine are super cheap to make, and I can put them anywhere, including a crossover in a slightly curved area. Custom curved turnouts can give so much more operating space.
But as far as where flex track can do the job, it does it for me. Dan
wp8thsub There are loads of people handlaying track. Fast Tracks, Oak Hill, and related products to assist in scratchbuilding turnouts, crossings, and even just plain track are popular. In my local work group, we have two layouts where all the turnouts are scratchbuilt, one of which has nothing but handlaid track everywhere else too. I know of a couple other layouts nearby with entirely handlaid track, and several with handlaid turnouts - most of which were built using Fast Tracks jigs. These layouts include N scale, HO, Sn3, and On3. As for myself, I've hand laid plenty of track, although my current doesn't have much. I prefer to get the track all the way in and weathered, with scenery completed around it, prior to ballasting. I use various small spikes, and Micro Engineering rail.
If you want to hand-lay track, it's important to have a pair of spiking pliers, which have T-shaped grooves in the tips of their long noses. We had to modify them ourselves in the old days, but a few years ago I bought a pair ready-made from Micro-Mark. I should point out that by the time I had a place where I could build an old-time (circa 1895) layout, Shinohara and other companies had meter length flex track sections and turnouts in Code 70, so my model RR had commercial track for most of the main line (except Atlas flex and Custom line turnouts in the tunnel holding tracks) and a couple of handlaid turnouts in the handlaid yard and engine facilities.
These days I live in a "large" studio (400 sq ft) apartment and build everything for fun and daydreaming, but I'm prepared to handlay track on the enginehouse diorama I'm building. As the French say, "Chacun à son goût"--I buy a lot of things rather than make 'em myself; life's too short!
Deano
I need to build a custom double 45 degree crossing.
.
I have built a couple of turnouts in the past that were of weird geometry and a commercial turnout would not fit.
I will never build another turnout again since I have plenty of Shinohara turnouts on hand. Flex track is good.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
I find it interesting that when I started in the hobby (almost 50 years ago) "serious" model railroaders hand-laid all their track. Flex track was seen as something kinda for newbies, perhaps a step up from sectional track, but not much more. Now I see something similar with "click track" - EZ Track or Unitrack are seen as being OK for your first layout, but more advanced modellers are supposed to use flex track. Wonder if that will change in the future?
Of course there is an overall trend towards ready-to-run / ready-to-use in the hobby. Not as many people build and paint and decal freight car kits etc. as in past decades.
I am interested in handlaying track; primarily to recreate what I did one summer when I worked for an industrial track contractor. I was part of a modular club in the DFW area in the early 1980s that featured all handlaid track, but that group disbanded before we got very far. I did hand lay all the track on twelve feet of modules, including two switches.
Everything I have done since then has been with commercial flex track and switches.
At some point, I hope to handlay track again, as time and space become available.
We each have to make choices that keep the fun-factor in the hobby for us. So, one could expect a lot of variance across the hobby, and that's precisely what the observant and open-minded hobbyist finds.
I have zero interest in hand laying trackage. Turnouts...sure, and I have done plenty of them. Once I had mastered them, including crafting customized ones that needed to fit on my freestyle layouts, hand-laying the rest of it was going to be an unpleasant and delaying chore for me. No thanks.
Instead, I work on ballasting, weathering, planting 'trees 'n bushes' such that they look natural, and enjoying the running of trains through my scenery.
To each his own...indeed.
I have done it in the past, though mostly to prove to myself that I could do it if I needed to. Everyone has some element of the hobby that they consider "work". For some, it's wiring. For others it's balasting. I think handlaying track could quickly devolve into the "work" category. Besides, I have always thought that flex track, with a little extra effort that doesn't come close to the work of hand laid, looks better. I think people that prefer haid laid do so because they recognize it and admire the skill it took to do it, not because it looks more realistic.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
wjstix I find it interesting that when I started in the hobby (almost 50 years ago) "serious" model railroaders hand-laid all their track. Flex track was seen as something kinda for newbies, perhaps a step up from sectional track, but not much more. Now I see something similar with "click track" - EZ Track or Unitrack are seen as being OK for your first layout, but more advanced modellers are supposed to use flex track. Wonder if that will change in the future? Of course there is an overall trend towards ready-to-run / ready-to-use in the hobby. Not as many people build and paint and decal freight car kits etc. as in past decades.
Regarding "serious" model railroaders "back then". Did flex track have fiber ties with staples?
So what has changed that "serious" model railroaders have changed to, horrors, prefab track?
- Prefab track looks much better now with better/finer options like code 83, 70, 55 etc. When painted and weathered it looks very realistic - more relistic than hand laid track I've seen.
- Modelers in recent years tend to have less time and more disposable income, hence the trend toward "serious" modelers going more with RTR and prefab.
- RTR products look better in appearance than the average modeler these days can achieve themselves through assembly, paint and decals.
As far as long term trend it's hard to tell regarding track. Obviously 3D printing will change some aspects of the hobby as it matures and becomes more mainstream.
I've been handlaying track since about 1973. My current layout is HO scale and has about 95 switches and several hundred feet of handlaid codes 55 and 70. I have been using ME Micro spikes for the last couple of years. When I finish the 2nd half the layout will end up with about 150 switches and about 50% more track.
Here is a link to a handout I made for my switch building clinic at a regional NMRA convention.
https://wnbranch.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Switches3.pdf
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I hand-laid the track along with custom-made turnouts on my previous Sn3 layout that was 2'x7'. The size of the layout and the number of turnouts made this possible, but I can see such a project as being out of the question on larger layouts. Yes, hand-laid track takes time and patience, but I like the appearance of it when done. We model and detail cars, scenery, locos, buildings, etc., so why not the track? A good place for it is on a layout where the track is viewable up-close on, say, a shelf layout or even in just a portion of a larger layout.
As far as the process goes, there's no reason why each rail needs to be spiked down on both sides on each tie (unless you're modeling prototype track) and I had no problem of stability or being out-of-guage. Using roller-type track guages as I went along, I spiked each rail down in an alternating pattern to the ties. The trick is to pre-drill each spike location so the tie won't split when inserting a spike. Once the basics are learned, it's then a matter of production. The ties need to be pre-stained or painted, the rail pre-weathered, the ties laid down with a good adhesive and properly placed according to best practices for what the layout represents. For back-woods and logging railroaders, the tie installation is the time to put down an occasional crooked or broken tie that adds interest. Ties can also be distressed after they've been glued down, too, adding visual texture to the ties.
My next layout will be in HO scale using hand-laid Code 83 pre-weathered rail and hand-built turnouts made from a jig. I'll keep the layout the same 2'x7' size making it do-able again. This time around, I'm going to use brass tie plates for each tie and spike each side of the rail at every tie as in prototype fashion. While this isn't for everyone and for every layout, my raiload is going to be viewable close-up from different angles and lends itself to this method of modeling track.
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
I am really wanting to get some N scale code 55, Fast Tracks assembly fixtures to make all of my turnouts.
I have heard the first one you make takes three times as long as it should and then after that it's a cinch.
I also understand they work very well and match ME flextrack being that ME supplies the products to make these turnouts.
They are spendy but you only have to buy one jeg for each size turnout. I think it would be worth it. Looks like a fun project as well.
TF
there are some scales and narrow gauge where it is still required to get that look. I hand lay only where visible. Cannt beat real wood ties and tje staining variation. That adds alot to a scene. Especially shortline or older less used trackage. Cannt beat the turnout flexibility in a small space situatioN . Railroads build to suit, and it just looks better when I do the same. Remember, track is a model too and really makes or breaks a scene. It blends in but adds to it when done right. But ruins it it is not weathered or done right.
Wolfie
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
This brings up a point that has been suggested here but not directly stated.
If your goal is track that looks like a little used siding, old branch line, quickly laid 1800's route, then hand laid track can/will look more realistic.
If your goal is a neatly ballasted, carefully surveyed class I mainline, commercial track may well give an equal or better effect.
I model mostly the latter.
Yes, hand laid turnouts give you prototype like flexibility in design, I do that when needed. But commercial turnouts can be carefully laid out to similar effects in most cases.
I model N scale, and have decided to hand lay the turnouts using the FT jigs and use ME flex for the track. Why? Unfortunately ME only offers a #6 in N scale. I wanted to include #8's on my mainline, so I decided to buy a jig and try it out. I was sold. Just after a couple of turnouts, I thought the ones I made were better than the commerically available ones. Plus I learned a new skill. After getting several under my belt, I tried doing a wye with a paper template. That one turned out really well, too. However, I only have so much time, so I will lay flex in between those turnouts.
Scott
My little red track gauge with the four spike holes and the push tool with the two rods sticking out of the bottom to push the spikes down has been dorment for forty five or more years, and they will stay that way.
I have seen the two tools sometime ago, but time has a habit of slipping bye, so may have been years ago. Now...I wonder where they maybe hiding?
I found the spikes, some still in bags, PERFECT No. 428, 1000 chisel point HO rail spikes, offset head, 35 cents. The loose ones are HO scale 2-1/2 foot long and are in a gondola for scrap. Wow, if that gon. was loaded thirty some years ago and hasn't been unloaded yet! Somebody's gone a lose there job.
Those spike driving tools never worked well. Even the Kadee spiker had its issues, and I wouldn't want one to use now (although I used one to lay hundreds of feet or track on a club layout).