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What model to look for? Seeking 50 to 60' passenger

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Posted by IDRick on Monday, February 25, 2019 5:09 PM

I did not receive a reply from any of the three companies relative to truck wipers (for improved electrical contact through turnouts) for the Rivarossi 4-4-0.  Since diesels work fine on my layout, I'm just going to to go back to 100% 4 axle diesels.  Conversion to DCC will also be simpler and easier with diesels.  The 4-4-0 is cute little loco but creates some headaches for me.

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Posted by IDRick on Saturday, February 23, 2019 1:32 PM

Thank you for your detailed answer Mel!  Most helpful, and I'm looking forward to running the Rivarossi on my layout.  The seller told me it had been one of her father's locos and he tested them a few years ago.  The price was small so worth a shot!  thanks for all your time and assistance Mel!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Saturday, February 23, 2019 12:49 PM

IDRick

Thanks Mel, your description was pretty clear but if you wouldn't mind, pictures would also be helpful.  The athearn trucks are not available till this summer so there's plenty of time!

 

Rick I’m sorry to have mislead you but when I looked this morning I was incorrect, I eroded about my Rivarossi 4-4-0.  That fix was a long time ago and my 81 year old brain is missing a few connections. 
 
The one I had problems with was a much earlier AHM/Rivarossi version.  The newer one didn’t need any mods to run through my Atlas turnouts.
 
You may not need to buy the Athearn trucks.
 
I didn’t realize or just plane forgot that it was the older one that had the problems.  When I was thinning my inventory a couple of years ago it went away.  My Jupiter is a Bachmann and my 119 is a newer Rivarossi.  Both work OK so if the one you bought is the same version that I have it will run fine.
 
At one time I bought a sack full of 4-4-0s to restore off eBay.  When I had a running pair I sold the others as parts on eBay.  I did keep some spare parts.
 
I think the Bachmann is also a newer version because it has a very nice motor, much better than the rest of the open frame motor I bought to restore.  As best as I can remember the Bachmann ran OK when I got it but needed a lot of cosmetic repair.
 
The Rivarossi also has a newer tender with an enclosed motor.  
 
I haven’t run either in several years so this morning I ran them on DC for a few minutes.  Both run pretty good until they hit my 3½% grades, they kept going but the Bachmann was loosing traction towing a bobber caboose.  The Rivarossi did better pulling a Drovers caboose.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by dstarr on Saturday, February 23, 2019 12:03 PM

The old Athearn blue box heavy weight cars look just right to my eye.  This is what the average passenger car looked like, right up to Amtrak.  The Athearns run happily on 18 inch radius, and I found most of mine at trainshows.

 

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Posted by IDRick on Saturday, February 23, 2019 10:52 AM

Thanks Mel, your description was pretty clear but if you wouldn't mind, pictures would also be helpful.  The athearn trucks are not available till this summer so there's plenty of time!

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 22, 2019 11:15 PM

One wire comes from the engine and the other is the tender frame.  Looking at the motor it should be obvious which wire is witch.  Replace the trucks with the Athearn trucks, one wire goes to engine connection (engineer side) on the motor the other goes to the tender connection (Fireman side).  Make sure the engineer side of the truck goes to the engineer side of the wire coming from the engine.
 
My arthritis is really causing me problems, if I can get my fingers to work I’ll take one apart to take some pictures.
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by IDRick on Friday, February 22, 2019 10:54 PM

RR_Mel

I like the Athearn trucks with the wires attached, yes they would work great but wouldn’t fit the time frame of the 4-4-0s.  I didn’t go with all wheel pickup and used the Rivarossi trucks.  I do run a wire from the truck frame for better power pickup.  I drill and tap the trucks for 0-80 brass screw then solder a super flex #30 wire to the screw.
  
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
  

 
I'm a lone wolf operator and not a historical detail kinda guy so the athearn trucks would work in my situation.  I don't have a wiring diagram so I don't know where to attach the wires from the athearn trucks to the locomotive or tender.  Also, I don't have the model here so can't open things up and take a look either...  I'm a visual learner and catch on much quicker if I can see step by step in pictures and with parts identified (if necessary).  Sorry for whining, feeling a bit frustrated.
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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 22, 2019 10:45 PM

I like the Athearn trucks with the wires attached, yes they would work great but wouldn’t fit the time frame of the 4-4-0s.  I didn’t go with all wheel pickup and used the Rivarossi trucks.  I do run a wire from the truck frame for better power pickup.  I drill and tap the trucks for 0-80 brass screw then solder a super flex #30 wire to the screw.
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by IDRick on Friday, February 22, 2019 10:06 PM

Would these work for improving contact in the tender?

http://www.athearn.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=ATHG61383

I have also contacted tomar industries about their Tomar shoes (parts 804 or 805)

https://tomarindustries.com/acc.htm

I also contacted this company that sells wipers for tenders:

http://sbs4dcc.com/hoscalewheelwipers.html

Hopefully, someone will have a solution for me...  Not sure how it goes together though.  Staying all diesel is looking like the easiest option.

 

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 22, 2019 10:03 PM

I used the rear tender truck to pickup power from the right rail and the front truck to pickup power from the left rail. I paralleled the locomotive pickup with the tender pickup spreading the power pickup over enough distance to make it through my turnouts with out jerking.
 
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by IDRick on Friday, February 22, 2019 9:51 PM

RR_Mel

Rather than power my frogs for just two locomotives I spun the rear tender trucks to help the power pickup.  That was the simplest fix and it works pretty good.  I rarely run either of my two 4-4-0s, they’re mainly for my Golden Spike Display.  They don’t do well on my 3% grades.  They will pull three 28 footers on level track.
 
I rewired both for DCC operation so the added wire was included in the decoder wiring.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
 

Sorry, I don't understand...  What do you mean you "spun the rear tender trucks"?  No clue what this is or how you do it... Sorry, I'm a complete newbie in regards to steam locos.  My four axle diesels are laughing at me, they don't give me any problems... :-)

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Posted by RR_Mel on Friday, February 22, 2019 9:19 PM

Rather than power my frogs for just two locomotives I spun the rear tender trucks to help the power pickup.  That was the simplest fix and it works pretty good.  I rarely run either of my two 4-4-0s, they’re mainly for my Golden Spike Display.  They don’t do well on my 3% grades.  They will pull three 28 footers on level track.
 
I rewired both for DCC operation so the added wire was included in the decoder wiring.
 
 
Mel
 
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
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Posted by snjroy on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:39 PM

The Rivarossi is a nice little model, but suffers from its poor power pickup design. You might want to read about how to add power pickups on the tender wheels.

Simon

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Posted by mbinsewi on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:30 PM

http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/267961.aspx

I've never had to do that, but many on here do, so I'll let them tell whats involved.

I'll go read the thread.

Mike.

EDIT:  OK, maybe Mel will chime in.

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Posted by IDRick on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:12 PM

Uh-oh, I was just reading this thread: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/267961.aspx

The money quote from RR_Mel: "Powered frogs are a must for the AHM 4-4-0s to prevent jerking at slow speeds."

Yikes, I have atlas turnouts, will I really need to power the frogs?  How is it done?  If it matters, I have code 100 Atlas track.

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Posted by IDRick on Friday, February 22, 2019 5:02 PM

Had some good luck today on e-bay!  I was able to score two Roundhouse 50' passenger cars and a Rivarossi 4-4-0 loco + tender for $40 + shipping.  They are all from the same time period and labeled for Virginia Truckee RR.  Youtube has videos of current VT excursion trains using this a 4-4-0 loco and passenger car set.  Wahoo!  :-) 

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Posted by BroadwayLion on Friday, February 22, 2019 10:44 AM

 ALL cars of LION are 50' cars.

 

ROAR

The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.

Here there be cats.                                LIONS with CAMERAS

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Posted by IDRick on Friday, February 22, 2019 9:02 AM

wjstix

 

 
IDRick
 
wjstix

The 60' Rivarossi cars have been made/sold under the Walthers name and one other (perhaps Hornby after they took over Rivarossi). The coach and combine are based on real C&NW "utility" cars which were 60' long. The baggage and RPO 60' cars are also I believe based on C&NW cars, but many railroads had similar 60' head-end cars. (Interestingly, Walthers made craftsman kit versions of these cars at least as far back as the 1960's, maybe much earlier?)

The old MDC (now Athearn) 50' Pullman cars are cars from the 1870's-1880's. To be accurate for a historical recreation you'd want a 19th century steam locomotive like a 4-4-0 I would think.

Keep in mind Walthers full-size passenger cars are supposed to be able to take a 24" radius curve, so you don't have to go with teeny tiny cars. You also don't have to have a steam locomotive to haul heavyweight cars! An excursion train of an F7 and several heavyweight cars would look fine.

The Athearn heavyweights are good cars, but don't come with interiors. I'd maybe look at picking up a couple of old (not the 60' ones discussed earlier) Rivarossi coaches, which you can sometimes find with a plastic one-piece interior with seats and dividers.

 

 

 

Why would you stay away from the 60 ft Rivarossi?  They have new tooling, knuckle couplers, complete interiors and metal wheels for $20 + shipping.  Seems to be a great buy and I have read several posters describing excellent performance with these cars...

 

 

 

I wouldn't / didn't say that. I have several and they're nice cars. One should be aware that they do have body mounted couplers so may not go around as tight a curve as the Athearn or 'old' (AHM) Rivarossi cars with talgo trucks, despite being shorter cars. Plus the coach and combine are kinda specific to C&NW, whereas 70' was pretty much the norm for heavyweight coaches.

 

 
We certainly had a miscommunication.  I was discussing the NEW tooling 60' ft Rivarossi heavyweights and you suggested picking up "old Rivarossi coaches".  Shrug, not a big deal...
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Posted by wjstix on Friday, February 22, 2019 8:14 AM

IDRick
 
wjstix

The 60' Rivarossi cars have been made/sold under the Walthers name and one other (perhaps Hornby after they took over Rivarossi). The coach and combine are based on real C&NW "utility" cars which were 60' long. The baggage and RPO 60' cars are also I believe based on C&NW cars, but many railroads had similar 60' head-end cars. (Interestingly, Walthers made craftsman kit versions of these cars at least as far back as the 1960's, maybe much earlier?)

The old MDC (now Athearn) 50' Pullman cars are cars from the 1870's-1880's. To be accurate for a historical recreation you'd want a 19th century steam locomotive like a 4-4-0 I would think.

Keep in mind Walthers full-size passenger cars are supposed to be able to take a 24" radius curve, so you don't have to go with teeny tiny cars. You also don't have to have a steam locomotive to haul heavyweight cars! An excursion train of an F7 and several heavyweight cars would look fine.

The Athearn heavyweights are good cars, but don't come with interiors. I'd maybe look at picking up a couple of old (not the 60' ones discussed earlier) Rivarossi coaches, which you can sometimes find with a plastic one-piece interior with seats and dividers.

 

 

 

Why would you stay away from the 60 ft Rivarossi?  They have new tooling, knuckle couplers, complete interiors and metal wheels for $20 + shipping.  Seems to be a great buy and I have read several posters describing excellent performance with these cars...

 

I wouldn't / didn't say that. I have several and they're nice cars. One should be aware that they do have body mounted couplers so may not go around as tight a curve as the Athearn or 'old' (AHM) Rivarossi cars with talgo trucks, despite being shorter cars. Plus the coach and combine are kinda specific to C&NW, whereas 70' was pretty much the norm for heavyweight coaches.

Stix
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Posted by IDRick on Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:46 PM

wjstix

The 60' Rivarossi cars have been made/sold under the Walthers name and one other (perhaps Hornby after they took over Rivarossi). The coach and combine are based on real C&NW "utility" cars which were 60' long. The baggage and RPO 60' cars are also I believe based on C&NW cars, but many railroads had similar 60' head-end cars. (Interestingly, Walthers made craftsman kit versions of these cars at least as far back as the 1960's, maybe much earlier?)

The old MDC (now Athearn) 50' Pullman cars are cars from the 1870's-1880's. To be accurate for a historical recreation you'd want a 19th century steam locomotive like a 4-4-0 I would think.

Keep in mind Walthers full-size passenger cars are supposed to be able to take a 24" radius curve, so you don't have to go with teeny tiny cars. You also don't have to have a steam locomotive to haul heavyweight cars! An excursion train of an F7 and several heavyweight cars would look fine.

The Athearn heavyweights are good cars, but don't come with interiors. I'd maybe look at picking up a couple of old (not the 60' ones discussed earlier) Rivarossi coaches, which you can sometimes find with a plastic one-piece interior with seats and dividers.

 

Why would you stay away from the 60 ft Rivarossi?  They have new tooling, knuckle couplers, complete interiors and metal wheels for $20 + shipping.  Seems to be a great buy and I have read several posters describing excellent performance with these cars...

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Posted by wjstix on Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:18 PM

The 60' Rivarossi cars have been made/sold under the Walthers name and one other (perhaps Hornby after they took over Rivarossi). The coach and combine are based on real C&NW "utility" cars which were 60' long. The baggage and RPO 60' cars are also I believe based on C&NW cars, but many railroads had similar 60' head-end cars. (Interestingly, Walthers made craftsman kit versions of these cars at least as far back as the 1960's, maybe much earlier?)

The old MDC (now Athearn) 50' Pullman cars are cars from the 1870's-1880's. To be accurate for a historical recreation you'd want a 19th century steam locomotive like a 4-4-0 I would think.

Keep in mind Walthers full-size passenger cars are supposed to be able to take a 24" radius curve, so you don't have to go with teeny tiny cars. You also don't have to have a steam locomotive to haul heavyweight cars! An excursion train of an F7 and several heavyweight cars would look fine.

The Athearn heavyweights are good cars, but don't come with interiors. I'd maybe look at picking up a couple of old (not the 60' ones discussed earlier) Rivarossi coaches, which you can sometimes find with a plastic one-piece interior with seats and dividers.

Stix
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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:03 PM

Yup, 2-6-0 with DCC and sound. Keep in mind that this is a small loco with limited pulling abilities. But excursion trains can be quite short, something like 2 or 3 cars. I am recommending it because I know it is available new, and the price is right in my opinion. A 4-6-0 is also a nice model, but more $$$ if you want sound. The 4-4-0 is also a nice little engine (the Richmond model, with new tooling), but it can also be hard to find new. The 4-6-2s are also quite nice, but they are more pricey. I actually double-head my 2-6-0 with a 4-6-0 that I already had, and the effect is quite nice... Long live steam!

Simon

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 21, 2019 2:13 PM

I guess I'll stick with my Digitrax. Whistling

So this Blue Rail only worked with the Bachmann EZ App.?

I'm not part of the smart phone crowd, as I still use a flip phone.  But I only use it for phone calls.

It is interesting to see all the new stuff come along.  I guess JMRI is about all I have that allows you to use anything other than a regular throttle, and hardly use the JMRI.  It's not even connected to my layout, it's up in my office, on a lap top, along with a section of programing track.

I find it just as easy to program with my throttle.  Although I do have a future Mars-type light project in the works, in which I may use JMRI to program the lights, much like programing different ditch light effects.

Mike.

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Posted by IDRick on Thursday, February 21, 2019 1:49 PM

In the above post, I mentioned a 2-6-0 that comes with the EZ-app.  Sounded like an interesting idea but appears to be dead technology.  The Bachmann EZ app board is dead and the Blue Rail webpage basically says they are collaborating on new technology but won't say what it is or when it will be delivered.  Okay, clunk (tossing idea into a circular file).

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Posted by IDRick on Thursday, February 21, 2019 11:18 AM

Mike,  yes they are heavyweight cars.  Search for Rivarossi 60ft 3370 car.

Simon, thanks for posting!  I was intrigued by the 2-6-0 model when searching around on the internet last night.  Which version did you buy: dcc ready, EZ app equipped, or DCC+sound?  The EZ app sounds like a cool feature as I do not have DCC and plan to purchase Rail Pro in the future.  Rail Pro does not send commands via the rail.  I think the EZ app and Rail Pro would work together so would not need to buy a decoder for the steam loco.  Do you have the EZ app version and do you like it?

Oops, oldheimer disease, you said you have sound so you must have purchased the DCC+sound version...

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Posted by snjroy on Thursday, February 21, 2019 6:53 AM

I recently bought a Bachmann 2-6-0 (with the new tooling and sound) and for the price, it is a sweet little engine. I use it to pull MDC 60 ft passengers, which is pretty much prototypical.

Simon

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Posted by mbinsewi on Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:52 AM

So, these must be the heavyweight type cars? or maybe the Harriman style "round roof" cars?

Mike.

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Posted by richhotrain on Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:45 AM

IDRick
 
richhotrain

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Rivarossi passenger cars. Rivarossi made a whole line of 60' passenger cars in several road names, and these passenger cars are readily available on eBay.

On one of my prior layouts with tight curves, I ran lots of Rivarossi passenger cars. They performed quite well and looked great for the price.

Rich 

Thanks for the tip!  I like the looks of the 60 ft Rivarossi cars.  They come complete with updated tooling, knuckle couplers, metal wheels and complete interiors for 20 bucks + shipping.  The Ebay description confirms that they will run on 18" radius curves and my minimum will be 6 inches wider radius.
 

I ran the Rivarossi 60' passenger cars quite successfully on 22" and 24" radius curves. I loved those cars, and they weren't shorties in that they were actual replications of prototype cars.

Rich

Alton Junction

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Posted by IDRick on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:48 PM

richhotrain

I am surprised that no one has mentioned Rivarossi passenger cars. Rivarossi made a whole line of 60' passenger cars in several road names, and these passenger cars are readily available on eBay.

On one of my prior layouts with tight curves, I ran lots of Rivarossi passenger cars. They performed quite well and looked great for the price.

Rich

 

 
Thanks for the tip!  I like the looks of the 60 ft Rivarossi cars.  They come complete with updated tooling, knuckle couplers, metal wheels and complete interiors for 20 bucks + shipping.  The Ebay description confirms that they will run on 18" radius curves and my minimum will be 6 inches wider radius.

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