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Fixing up an AHM/Rivarossi 4-4-0?

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  • Member since
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Fixing up an AHM/Rivarossi 4-4-0?
Posted by burbri45 on Saturday, February 3, 2018 10:58 PM

This is my first time back to this forum in a long time.  And so, to start off, I’d like to ask about an AHM/Rivarossi 4-4-0 (V&T “Inyo”) I recently obtained to try out as a first repair/kitbash/detailing project.

Right now, I’m trying to solve one of the primary problems with it: the drive shaft connecting the tender motor to the engine wasn’t included with the pair. The real trouble I’m running into is finding the right replacement.  From what I can gather from diagrams at HOseeker.net, older (or newer?) versions of the model usually had a long, symmetrical drive shaft, with a hex fitting at both ends.  I’ve seen many of that type of drive shaft available on Ebay, but I doubt they‘d fit what I have.

Instead of having the hex-shaped fitting as on the other tenders, mine has what I can only describe now (someday I’ll find a way to post pictures) as something shaped like a protruding cylinder with two 1/4”-long notches cut horizontally out of each side. After measuring the coupled engine and tender, the missing part couldn’t be any longer than 1” [25mm], and is likely shorter.

I’m not exactly sure where else to go to find a new one. If I can’t find one to purchase, I’m considering trying to construct my own replacement, perhaps with 3D printing.  Does anyone have the part I’m referring to, that they might be willing to provide a photo of for reference? Or, does anyone at least have some information that might point me in the right direction?

Thanks!

 

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Posted by 7j43k on Saturday, February 3, 2018 11:06 PM

Perhaps something like this:

 

 

That's a Hobbytown universal.

 

Northwest Short Line has a nice universal set that is similar.  And available.  Look on page 3 of the following:

 

http://nebula.wsimg.com/02d6e40c2d04190212ed400d3ccb2472?AccessKeyId=08BEE66B97B387F20C0D&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

 

 

 

Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Collinwood, Ohio, USA
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Posted by gmpullman on Saturday, February 3, 2018 11:13 PM

Hi,

Welcome Back!

I have used this A-Line kit to repair some Overland, Athearn and Proto locomotives. It is a handy kit to have on hand for such repairs.

https://www.walthers.com/universal-coupling-kit

A-Line # 12031 I don't know if the exact parts you need are in there but it will give you some generic universals to start with. The keyed shafting can be cut to fit.

Kit # 12030 is the same thing minus the shafting.

It is a handy collection of drive parts. NWSL has universal parts and shafting, too.

http://shop.osorail.com/category.sc?categoryId=42

 

Good Luck, Ed

  • Member since
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  • From: Bakersfield, CA 93308
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Posted by RR_Mel on Sunday, February 4, 2018 8:47 AM

I have four of the AHM/Rivarossi 4-4-0 locomotives, one 1968 version, two 1972 versions and one 1976 version.  All four originally came with the hex drive shaft couplings, only one had a driveline.
 
I pulled the hex couplings and used NWSL universals.  The NWSL kit came with a 2mm rod to custom make the drive line.  I screwed up making the rod the correct length the first couple of cuts, that taught me to stock 2mm rod for making drive lines.  All of my Rivarossi articulated steam originally used 2mm drive lines before I re-motored them, lots of NWSL universals.
 
It took several attempts to find the correct length, unfortunately I didn’t keep records back in the early 80s but 1.15” rings my bell.   I’d open one up but with my luck I’d ding it so in this case I’d go with “if it isn’t broke don’t fix it”.
 
All four run pretty good but drawbar is zilch, they couldn’t pull more than three boxcars full of butterflies in flight and I have 3½% grades.  They will pull one Droves Caboose up my grade with a good running start.  Powered frogs are a must for the AHM 4-4-0s to prevent jerking at slow speeds.
 
I originally bought a pair of 4-4-0s, one American and one Jupiter for a Golden Spike display.  Didn’t last long before I wanted them to run, neither would run thus another pair for parts.  Once I got inside one of them it wasn’t that hard to restore all four, not much more than a bit of TLC, NWSL universals and Cal-Scale brass castings.  Three didn’t have smoke stacks and two had broken cowcatchers.  Installing LEDs in those headlight wasn’t an easy task.
 
 Good Luck
 
 
Mel
 
Modeling the early to mid 1950s SP in HO scale since 1951
  
 
My Model Railroad   
 
Bakersfield, California
 
I'm beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.
 
  • Member since
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  • From: Kentucky
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Posted by Heartland Division CB&Q on Sunday, February 4, 2018 9:10 AM

I recall fixing an AHM 4-4-0 a long time ago. .... A drive shaft was missing, but it was easy to make a replacement. 

The original shaft had a hexagonal end. It was very close to the same size as a nut for a 2-56 screw. .... So I got a long enough screw and cut off the head at the correct length. I put a nut at each end and soldered them on. ... It worked well. 

GARRY

HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR

EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU

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Posted by burbri45 on Monday, February 26, 2018 4:05 PM

Thanks for all the great input!  I have been busy with classes lately, with the project mostly on the back burner, but I haven’t forgotten about it, either.

Having finally had a chance to test the tender motor for the first time this past weekend, a new issue has come up which might change how I go about this project:  The motor has a fairly strong burning smell. It’s not too potent, but enough to cause some concern.  Besides the smell, my motor also looks (to me) older and (maybe?) lower-quality. (A bit more like the one pictured here, though maybe not quite that old, the casing looks slightly different).

After also having just come across this website, though, I’ve started wondering about trying to fit a new motor to the tender instead of fussing with the old one. I think that

  1. I could end up with a better-running loco, and
  2. It might make the problem of the funky drive-shaft simpler to address.

Even though I am hoping to keep this at a lower cost, I’m wondering if it might be worth the effort?...

(Again, I wish I could post pictures! Are there good places to upload them so I could share here?)

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Posted by rrinker on Tuesday, February 27, 2018 7:48 AM

 Does the motor protude well below the tender floor or does it appear more like a rounded tank sort of shape? The bigger on is the older version. I have 3 - Reno, Genoa, and Bowker, no Inyo, and mine all have the rounded motor and the hex shafts for the drive shafts. I've seen an older Reno with the bigger motor but it still had the hex shaft. I wouldn;t think the two pronh Hobbytown style would allow as free a bending for going around curves. There was something like that used in a brass disel I have that was remotored, and the truck at the short hood end could barely move. I temporarily fixed it with model airplane fuel line, eventually I will do something more permanent.

                                       --Randy

 


Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's

 

Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.

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Posted by burbri45 on Friday, March 2, 2018 11:49 PM

I didn’t realize the link I made to HOseeker.net didn’t show the specific 4-4-0 plans I thought I was linking to—oops! My motor is the one that protrudes below the tender floor, and looks wider than it is long.

Here’s my first attempt at posting a photo; I figure it’s worth the next 1000 words I could use instead.

[removed]

EDIT: That didn’t do it, and after two other tries, I’ll just have to post a link here.

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Posted by DR JIM FITE on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 10:53 PM

K&S  makes hex shaped brass tubing.  I don't know if it would fit or not.  Ace hardware here carries it, Lowes might and hobby shops should.  The replacement knock offs  are $13 on ebay with about $6 shipping, a real rip off.

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Posted by DR JIM FITE on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 10:54 PM

Good idea, should work.

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Posted by DR JIM FITE on Tuesday, June 27, 2023 11:20 PM

I have 2 AHM Pocher 4-4-0's from the 1960's.  They still run well and my Dad gave them to me for Christmas I think (It's been 60 years!)  .  I made a discovery when tinkering with them last week to get them running as well as I could.  Reno and Genoa.  They have different motors but both have the  same hex shafts but the motors are different.

 I made a slider for Genoa of brass and applied solder where it contacts the rail; that worked well.  I filed a notch in it and slipped it under the baseplate screw without having to solder it.  I applied solder where the brass slider contacts the rail.  The loco kept stalling.  Reno didn't need it.  I polished tender axle pickups and wheels with dremel tool and the screws threads and shaft that hold the trucks to the tender.  Also the drawbar contacts.  The tender metal parts seemed to have some oxidation I couldn't see, and polishing all the metal parts helped.   I polished the loco drivers also with dremel tool wire wheel.   It helped pickup.  Hope this helps.  These are quality locos that still run after 60 years.  I hope this helps other readers.  I couldnt find a place for a new post.  It is enormously pleasing to have an experiment that works because most don't!

The tender shell itself is a source of noise and stuffing small pieces of bounty paper towel into the rounded hollow areas at the front of the tender and the hollow space at the rear of the tender nearly eliminated noise from the shell.  Placing small pieces of foam rubber between the tender shell and the plastic universal in front of the motor slowed the loco significantly.  They can be glued to the shell if wanted.

      Further experimenting revealed that sometimes reversing the drive shaft  front and rear is helpful.  Oil on the hex heads of the drive shaft also seems to reduce noise.    The tender body seems to be the noise maker.  Judicious contact cement in each corner may help; paint thinner will dissolve it.   I cut and contact cemented a couple of small foam blocks to rub the drive shaft universal from the tender and that slowed it down a lot.  I have both running very well now.  As opposed to the newer cheaper china products, these pocher locos have METAL gears, not chinese plastic ones that sometimes break in multiple brands.  The locos cost less than $19 in the 60's and are running better than ever now.  I bought 2 more on ebay for about $50 and all 4 run well and quietly.   Jim

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Posted by DR JIM FITE on Saturday, July 29, 2023 3:52 PM

You're describing universals with a ball connector and 2 protruding prongs to fit your female piece with 2 slots.  I have made parts like these using plastic beads found at Hobby Lobby or other.  You can drill a hole through the correct size bead and glue a piece of brass wire through the hole.  Drill a hole also for the drive shaft that connects the universals, similar to the Hobbytown rig shown below.  It doesn't need to be a square shaft.  It really is not difficult using a dremel tool drill and easy to make.  Take your socket to Hobby Lobby to get the right sized beads.  Michaels also has them.

You can find Grandt Line universals on ebay also: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p4432023.m570.l1313&_nkw=HO+grandt+line+universals&_sacat=0  

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Posted by Southgate 2 on Sunday, July 30, 2023 1:13 AM

Jim, I have a soft spot for the 4-4-0s from Pocher made in the 60s after someone gave me one about 2-3 years ago and I found they were built substantially better than the Genoa I bought in the mid 70s. Anything you do as you suggest to improve electrical contact will improve running.

Adding weight will too. I added considerable weight to both a Reno and a Genoa from the 60s, more for electrical contact than pulling traction. I did that by adding lead sheet pieces laminated into blocks and fitted in every unfilled cavity in both the engine and the tender. It also reduces torque lean between the engine and tender.

   

Genoa tipping the scale at over 11 oz:

   

But the biggest improvement for smooth and quiet running was to replace the original motors with CD drive motors, found cheap on Ebay and other places. See top picture. That requires some altering to make new motor mounts. I also added flywheels, but that requires a lathe.

I posted all my work, but can't remember where.Sad Dan

 

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Posted by DR JIM FITE on Tuesday, October 3, 2023 1:34 PM

I have found that stuffing small pieces of bounty paper towel into the rounded hollows at the front of the tender and the space in the rear of the tender virtually eliminates noise from the plastic shell.  Small pieces of foam rubber placed to rub on the universal drive connector in front of the motor wedged between the body slows running significantly.  My 4 locos all run smooth and quietly now.  The 4 screws in Reno's tender shell conduct noise and removing them quiets the tender shell noise, but 3 other 4-4-0's didn't require this.

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