A couple of weeks ago I acquired some really nice 85' modern passenger cars that came from an estate sale. They had no markings on them as to manufacturer? They appear to be of a very high quality, and are already set up for lighting via their truck pic-ups.
I inquired with a few other modelers that seemed to be pretty sure they were Walthers brand, and that often Walters cars did not had a brand printed on their bottoms, as Walthers has many different manufacturers produce product for themselves??
3 of these cars have figures (passengers) in them. Did any of the 'stock' passenger cars have such?
Since these did NOT come in boxes, I'm unsure as to what exact subcategory of the Walthers line they might be from? I'm trying to determine a value as I may wish to sell them off due to my fondness for B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe.
Long ago I had some Concor passenger cars that had molded bottoms somewhat similar to these, and at first I thought they might be some 'upgraded' Concor cars. But they are far superior to those.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
Brian, can you post some pictures? Sides, bottom, etc., etc.
I've never known of any body, especially Walthers, to sell a passenger car with people already in it.
But, you know how this stuff goes, never say never.
Mike.
My You Tube
mbinsewiBut, you know how this stuff goes, never say never.
So true!
Walthers did market a "Deluxe" Proto passenger car series when they introduced certain name trains. Generally, when you "subscribed" to purchase the entire train in the Deluxe version you got some little extras such as Preiser figures and, in the case of the 20th Century Limited, you got a strip of the red carpet used on the station platform. For the Broadway Limited Deluxe set you got laser-cut train gates and departure boards patterned after the ones used in New York's Pennsylvania Station.
The "Deluxe" cars also had the car names or numbers already applied so you didn't have to mess with the supplied decals. Factory applied car names always looked better, IMHO.
In the case of the Capitol Limited and the second run of the Broadway, and some of the Amtrak Amfleet, there were cars that included about a dozen Preiser figures already glued in some of the seats. I have purchased several of these cars. I heard some grumbling about the roughly $100 street price! To me it was a real bargain. Many of the Preiser figure sets are going near $15-18. The cars also included the LED light bar so add another $15 or so for that. Some places were splitting the Deluxe sets up and selling individual cars.
The big advantage for me is that I didn't have to pry that roof off the body to get at the interior. That, to me, is one of the most aggravating jobs to do and I avoid it as often as possible.
Here's a photo of the underside of a Walthers streamlined car. Note how the contact strips on the car mate with the screws on the trucks to carry power to the interior lighting.
Proto_truck by Edmund, on Flickr
The coupler swing bracket with the two whisker springs and the truck bolster screws that feed rail current to the metal contact strips are giveaways. I believe Hornby manufactures the Proto line for Walthers.
I frequently watch for closeouts in the Walthers Flyer or Bargain Depot or at places like Trainworld for bargains in these cars. If you're not too choosy about road names you can get some real deals.
Good Luck, Ed
Walthers did some ACL passenger and express cars back in 2001/02. I haven't seen anything since then.
ACL must be a "lesser known" road.
I'll have to get some photos, but in the meantime this is what the bottom of my cars look like,..
Walthers Proto............if it has handrails/grab irons installed. Walthers Mainline if they were installed by customer, along with metal trucks, light bar, swing arm couplers. They both had the same shell/chassis.
Take Care!
Frank
Hi Brian.
This thread got my "instant attention" when I saw Atlantic Coast Line in the title. I'm currently paint stripping and metalizing several Walthers light weight Budd and Pullman Standard units into SCL and ACL.
Certainly would like to see some more photos of your units!
I'm wondering if these are the Walthers units, from the early 2000's, that were detailed? When they were introduced, the prices were affordable so a number of modelers got into upgrading and detailing them. A number of threads showed up on this and other forums featuring some of the impressive work.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
I just looked at mine, I have to agree with Wakthers.
The little screws on each side of the bolster is the contact for interior lighting. The heads make contact to a little metal plate on each side.
My experience with SOME of the Walthers cars, 22" radius or less could be trouble. Not all but some.
EDIT: Antonio, sent you a PM.
Tune Up Detail
I was reading in one other forum about the numerous little 'triming' a fellow went thru to make his cars more reliable and less prone to derailing. Some of this triming had to do with both truck frame and wheel interference with car body parts. Interestingly another gentlement offered that the simple act of backing off those 'truck screw heads' that make contact with the metal plates on the car body underframe allowed the car to ride just a bit higher, while eliminating a lot of the wheel interference with portions of the car body underframe.I'll have to remember this when I get around to running my Walthers Santa Fe and B&O passenger cars.
Interesting/informative posting on another forum,...
1. Is the lighting pick up a metal shoe over the truck that contacts a screw on the top of the truck? That is the Walther's design. 2. Yes, Walther's "Name Train" series deluxe cars come with Preiser figures in them. 3. Walther's has recently run "Name Train" series cars for all three of the roads you mention B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe. 4. Walther's Proto cars will have metal trucks. The deluxe cars originally only sold in sets, but people who purchased sets and broke them up made the retail list between $90 and $150 depending on type of car and whether or not they were sound equipped. Not having the box will lower the price as these were made for collectors. The boxes had special sleeves on them branded with the train name. https://www.walthers.com/catalog/category/view/id/13423 The non-deluxe cars came in two versions with lights and without lights. List hovering around the $80 price. Box will not be important here. Personally I try never to pay more than $50. I got the Hiawatha and Empire Builder sets (non-deluxe) in the $34-$43 range because I waited for the used market. Some of these sets increase in value until the next time Walther's runs them and then there is a reset. Plus Walthers seems to increase the price by at least 10% at each run. Then there are just the generic Walther's Proto "Streamline" and "Heavyweight" passenger cars that run in the $60 price range. And finally Walther's has a cheapo line called Mainline. I don't know much about these.
There is a lot of errorneous info on that post You just made.
I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights. They had and probably still do have add on kits for the Mainline cars to convert them into the high dollar cars and that's what I did. I saved 35 dollars per car that way. You don't have to do any mods to the shell or chassis, because like I said they are the same.......just remove the parts that came with them and screw in the new parts. Holes etc. are already there. No big deal........You don't even have to change the couplers, they are Walthers protomax couplers exact Kadee clones. I did change mine to Kadee 30 series 1/4'' shank couplers for a closer fit for the diaphragms, which I painted Aluminum, they come black.
I don't have any problem with tracking.....none of My curves are under 36''. They are supposed to handle 24'' curves, but I believe that is a marketing ploy....those are long cars.......no need to say anymore on that!.
Never mind.
zstripeI have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets.
Well, not really. The body moldings ARE different. The windows don't sit flush with the outer wall of the car. The roof forms the window glass. Very similar to the old Rivarossi cars.
railandsailInteresting/informative posting on another forum,...
How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that?
What answer ARE you looking for?
Regards, Ed
gmpullmanHow is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that?
He always post threads from MRH in here. I don't know what his point is.
Kind of sorta what I said in the post I deleted.
mbinsewi gmpullman How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that? He always post threads from MRH in here. I don't know what his point is. Kind of sorta what I said in the post I deleted. Mike.
gmpullman How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that?
I also think that it is bad form to post the same questions, verbatim, on several forums and then bounce back and forth between forums, sharing opinions from other forums. Just doesn't seem right. This forum can stand on its own merits.
Rich
Alton Junction
My first exposure to forums was with BWM Airheads (motorcycles circa 1960-1995) Cross posting was severely looked down upon, to the point that some people claimed copywrite to their posts.
My next exposure (different subject) promoted the idea that you should ask yourself:
With enough time, the answer to the second question is usually no. Saves a lot of Internet hard feelings on both sides
I am grateful that our hosts put this forum up for free. There are technical problems, like the search engine or the ads, but it's free. I am not going to promote a competitors forum here or do the same at the other forum.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I'm a member on a couple of garden tractor sites/forums, and you don't see any of this cross posting/linking going on.
I go to other model railroad forums, along with lots of people that are members of multiple forums, and you don't see this to the extent that the OP takes it.
I thought that Vinnie had slapped the OP's hands on this once before, but maybe that was because of copyright issues.
gmpullman zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. Well, not really. The windows don't sit flush with the outer wall of the car. The roof forms the window glass. Very similar to the old Rivarossi cars. railandsail Interesting/informative posting on another forum,... How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that? What answer ARE you looking for? Regards, Ed
zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets.
Well, not really. The windows don't sit flush with the outer wall of the car. The roof forms the window glass. Very similar to the old Rivarossi cars.
railandsail Interesting/informative posting on another forum,...
Please excuse me here as I am always interested in your postings. That other gentleman did provide a link to a Walthers page that addressed the 'name sets of cars' I had not found in my search.
railandsailPlease excuse me here as I am always interested in your postings.
Everyone here wants to help you out. You have to help us out by providing as much background information as possible.
Posting replys from other forums that contain the same answers you are asking here isn't helpful. It is like telling the host of a dinner that you know where there's better food but you'll stay here and eat anyway.
Good Luck with your passenger cars—
zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights. Frank
I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights.
Wouldn't the whole bottom of the car have to be changed over to make the change from truck mounted Talgo style couplers to that newer style coupler? It appears to me from some images I've seen of the two types, the bottoms of the two different cars are different up in the coupler area??
Cross Postings
I am sorry some of you fellows are disturbed by my cross posting. Perhaps I need to explain it from my viewpoint.
I look upon the forums (all of them) as a great library of information from which I am trying to extract as much pertinent information as I can. I often do NOT find all of the POTENTIAL information on a particular subject in only one individual forum. So I try to visit at least 3 to 4.
Likewise when I find some interesting info, I also like to pass it along from one forum to another. As an example I had a very interesting posting made to my 'metal benchwork' discussion just recently by a gentleman from Switzerland. I copied and pasted into several other forums where I had this same discussion going on,....something that perhaps the participants on those other forums may have never run across, even though they held some interest in the subject matter. I like to think that often I go the extra mile to look up 'past/history postings' of subjects,...something I find a lot of people don't bother with, or don't take the time to do. There is a LOT/ton of good information lost in the archives of some of these forums. Often I try to take the time to find it, and when I see that it might contribute to a conversation I try to post it on each of the forums that are having similar discussions.
I find it a bit childish when different forums squabble over territorial 'rights'. Are we participants here to stand up for 'their rights' , or are we the needed fuel to keep their forums going. We all need each other, and as long as we conduct ourselves in a civil and legal manner that should be adequate.
Naturally this multiplicity of forum searches and postings takes time, ...and extra effort as each forum has it own particular software to deal with. That's one reason I utilize a lot of copy/paste functions.Again, sorry for My particular efforts in forum participation, but I guess I honed those skills for many years defending some 'unusual ideas' I had about sailing rig designs, and multihull sailboats in general,....on multiple boating forums.RunningTideYachts.com
railandsail zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights. Frank Wouldn't the whole bottom of the car have to be changed over to make the change from truck mounted Talgo style couplers to that newer style coupler? It appears to me from some images I've seen of the two types, the bottoms of the two different cars are different up in the coupler area??
No they Do Not have to be changed. All the holes are already there....you just have to put on the different trucks, swing arm couplers, add the pick-ups in the floor and install the light bar. The interiors are also already there, just unscrew to take out to paint or add figures.
These first two pic's show the Walthers Mainline cars right out of the box and you can see the holes in the chassis floor for the other parts. The trucks are plastic with mounted coupler pockets on them.....
These next pic's are with the metal trucks for pick-up on the floor and the swing arm coupler pockets, all screwed into the holes that are already in the floor. The new parts also come with the necessary screw's etc.. I airbrushed My trucks Aluminum along with the diaphragms which come Black. Also the Kadee 1/4 shank coupler. This car has added hand rails which I installed which they also have a add on kit for:
They also come with decals for every train that used that car in the name trains. I have not made up My mind yet on that issue so there are no names or numbers.
Topic twist question:
Hello Frank (ZStripe).
What size drill bit did you use to open the holes on your Mainline shell? I've stripped a Mainline shell and want to install the handrails/grabs before I metalize it.
zstripe This car has added hand rails which I installed which they also have a add on kit for: They also come with decals for every train that used that car in the name trains. I have not made up My mind yet on that issue so there are no names or numbers. Take Care! Frank
This car has added hand rails which I installed which they also have a add on kit for:
railandsail I am sorry some of you fellows are disturbed by my cross posting. Perhaps I need to explain it from my viewpoint. I find it a bit childish when different forums squabble over territorial 'rights'.
I find it a bit childish when different forums squabble over territorial 'rights'.
A big problem with cross posting is that the cross post is almost always without context. So, once a cross post occurs, we have to either take it as gospel truth or track down the forum that it came from and read through the entire thread. So, in effect, we are replying not only to you but to the remarks of members of another forum. After awhile, there is more confusion created than clarity. And, after awhile, the cross poster runs the risk that no one on this forum will bother to reply because everyone eventually realizes that their replies, their ideas, their opinions, are being second guessed by posts on another forum.
So, it's not so much about territorial rights as it is about the value, or lack thereof, of one's reply, one's ideas, one's opinions.
Antonio,
I used a #80 for most of them, along with a #79 in some so I could add CA to some. The grabs are a tight fit.......they are #80. I only broke one bit, in 9 cars.......but I have a lot of practice...LOL
railandsailLikewise when I find some interesting info, I also like to pass it along from one forum to another. As an example I had a very interesting posting made to my 'metal benchwork' discussion just recently by a gentleman from Switzerland. I copied and pasted into several other forums where I had this same discussion going on,....something that perhaps the participants on those other forums may have never run across, even though they held some interest in the subject matter.
We all go to many different forums, and learn from what others have done, it's not just you that doess this and it's nothing about any "territorial rights".
Do you think we all just huddle together in our own little worlds?
Frank, I replied to you PM and asked you a question about masking tape.
Thanks Frank, that was a very good explaination, and PHOTOS of the conversion job.The designer of these cars apparently got this feature really right. From what I have read, the access to the interior from the roof is a bear.
railandsailPlease excuse me here as I am always interested in your postings. That other gentleman did provide a link to a Walthers page that addressed the 'name sets of cars' I had not found in my search.
The only reason I was able to track down that link is because I knew it was there. The Walther's web site does not make it easy to find. It used to be a list on their directory but it has been removed for some reason.
Here area few photos of the Walthers passenger cars I was asking about...
Thats a nice looking set. Looks like you'll have to find maybe an E8 a/b loco set to pull it.