Autonerd railandsail a Budd Dome which is definitely not NYC, (CP?) I couldn't resist a challenge, so I checked the Amtrak Diagram book. The Mainline dome is very close to a CB&Q dome (ex-coffee shop, I believe) from the KC Zephyr, but a couple of the windows at the B end on the left side of the car (only one side is shown in the book) are not a perfect match. Of course, if it was a CP car, it would not have made it to Amtrak.
railandsail a Budd Dome which is definitely not NYC, (CP?)
I couldn't resist a challenge, so I checked the Amtrak Diagram book. The Mainline dome is very close to a CB&Q dome (ex-coffee shop, I believe) from the KC Zephyr, but a couple of the windows at the B end on the left side of the car (only one side is shown in the book) are not a perfect match. Of course, if it was a CP car, it would not have made it to Amtrak.
Not sure what prototype they followed for the Budd Dome, but the CP Domes did show up on Amtrak's Grand Central to Montreal Adirondak, (between Albany and Montreal). Amtrak leased the domes for food and lounge service. This lasted until the conventional train was replaced by a Turbotrain.
Walthers Mainline actually offers two coaches described as wide window (NYC 56 Seat) and narrow Window (SP Sunset). The Mainline NYC diner represents the full Budd diner, and is not a re-run of the Hamburger Grill offered in the 932 series.
Boris
Walthers actually had several runs of the ATSF Single Level Budd 46 seat coach, most recently in the single level El Capitan.
Walthers also had two different Eastern 52 seat coaches, a Budd, which was a SAL - RF&P - PRR build used on SAL trains out of New York, for Florida and Atlanta/Birmingham, and a PS 52 seat (divided) coach built for the C&O,as part of their big 1948 order. These coaches ended up on the DRGW, ACL/SAL/SCL, NKP, D&H and PC as well as Amtrak The Budds also made it to Amtrak.
The 52 seat Budd Coaches were one timers, while the PS cars, which have fluting only below the windows, were run numerous times, most recently as part of the George Washington.
Walthers has also run a B&O 56 seat coach, as part of the Capitol Limited Series.
railandsaila Budd Dome which is definitely not NYC, (CP?)
Some of the budd streamlined passenger cars Walthers released in the early 2000's looked good, but were generic, ex: a coach or grill diner would be correct for NYC, but incorrect for SF. Whether the car was a baggage, rpo, coach, diner, sleeper, or observation, the same mold was used for each car. As time went on, later releases featured PS and ACF cars with more roadnames.
The 52 seat coach looked correct for eastern roads, but would require lots of work to be kitbashed into a protypical SF coach.
If I remember correctly the roadnames were: SF, SP, UP, NYC, PRR, SOU, SAL, ACL, CP, and AMTK.
I find it interesting that this subject posting has evolved into a 'detective story',....
The current Walthers Proto passenger cars are the outgrowth of their original Ready to Run line of mostly pre ww2 PS and Post ww2 Budds, with separate roofs, floor mounted couplers and provision for interior lighting. As time went on, they were improved. Handrails and grabirons were installed, instead of coming in a small pack, for instance. Plastic couplers were replaced with metal couplers, interior lighting became an option and most recently, a Deluxe version, aimed at collectors, came with factory applied names / numbers passengers, lighting and sound. Walthers Mainline product line, has evolved into their version of the "operator's" line with less detail and more flexibility to appeal to those interested in operations, or less concerned with prototype fidelity. They come with truck mounted couplers, have a generic floor pattern, and as previously mentioned generally follow NYC prototype with two exceptions, the Wabash Budd Combine Baggage Lounge, and a Budd Dome which is definitely not NYC, (CP?). Also as previously noted, Walthers sells detail and upgrade kits to bring the Mainline cars up to basic Proto standards. With regard to the OP's photos, I will go out on a limb and guess that the original owner repainted and relettered the 932 cars for ACL. The RPO is ATSF prototype, the Diner is a NYC Hamburger Grill Lounge, the Coaches ATSF single level coaches, the Sleeping car, a UP Pacific 10-6. and the parlor a PRR Parlor car. They do appear to be Walthers 932 series coaches. Boris
Brian noted: I never met the original owner who lived here in Florida. I have only purchased a number of very nice items from a relative of his who was selling at a train show. He was apparently a PROLIFIC collector of trains, and had a LOT of quality items.
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
zstripeWalthers Proto... Walthers Mainline... They both had the same shell/chassis.
I don't believe this is correct -- I am pretty sure the construction is different. Walthers Mainline cars have the roof and window glazing as one part (a la the old Rivarossis) while Proto cars (and, I believe, older 932-series cars) have a seperate roof. (Hence the "twist" method of disassembly doesn't work the same way with the Mainlines -- you have to twist while holding the steps instead of the whole carbody.)
Sounds like a lot of people are annoyed with teh OP, but I'll post my experiences in case they help anyone:
Walthers Protos come with body-mount couplers, grab irons installed, roof and windows are separate.
Walthers Mainline cars come with truck-mount couplers and no grabs, and the roof and windows are one piece. A conversion kit adds grabs and body-mount couplers, but on a converted car you should see signs that the talgo mount was cut from the truck.
The older 932-series cars (beige/red box) have body-mount couplers. I've seen them with grabs factory installed or seperately applied. I can't speak to the construction as I have not disassembled any, but I do believe the prototypes of the cars were different than the Mainline streamliners, which are mostly NYC cars. Many of the 932s I have (except the Slumbercoaches) are modeled after different prototypes than the Mainlines. (Besides NYC, I model Amtrak Phase 1, and pretty much *all* of the streamline cars are correct for Amtrak. )
My guess is that the 932s morphed into Protos, but I'm not 100% sure. Best way to check is to compare the window patterns.
I have a great book (Amtrak Car Diagrams of the 1970s, by Waymer Publications) that shows the window pattern (and interior layouts) of most of the cars Amtrak inhereted, and tells who originally owned the cars. It's proven to be an invaluable resource in sussing out which prototype a model is patterned after. That's how I figured out that the Mainline cars were correct for NYC and many of the 932s weren't. :)
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=amtrak+car+diagrams+of+the+1970s
Hope this helps someone, somewhere.
Aaron
I've got a whole set of Walthers Santa Fe passengers cars, and the multiple Santa Fe locos to pull them. But they are in storage until I can get my new layout up and running. I just hope they are as nice as these,...I've never taken the time to look at them that carefully,...just knew I wanted them, bought them, and stored then away.
Up until that time I had a nice Concor set that I diligently placed the 'close coupling' Talgo extensions on, and weighty them propery so I could back a long stream of them into my yard on my John Armstrong Central Midland layout I had at that time. That was a real effort to get those style couplers to back up into that yard without derailing.
I ended up selling off that 10 car set once I got the Walthers cars.
I've got a number of E8 sets, but not that line. Maybe I'll just mix them in with other passenger trains,...not prototypical I know, But it does appear that some RRs mixed in various different cars of their own within a consist?...or even cars they purchased from other RRs going out of business??
Thats a nice looking set. Looks like you'll have to find maybe an E8 a/b loco set to pull it.
Mike.
My You Tube
Here area few photos of the Walthers passenger cars I was asking about...
railandsailPlease excuse me here as I am always interested in your postings. That other gentleman did provide a link to a Walthers page that addressed the 'name sets of cars' I had not found in my search.
The only reason I was able to track down that link is because I knew it was there. The Walther's web site does not make it easy to find. It used to be a list on their directory but it has been removed for some reason.
Thanks Frank, that was a very good explaination, and PHOTOS of the conversion job.The designer of these cars apparently got this feature really right. From what I have read, the access to the interior from the roof is a bear.
railandsailLikewise when I find some interesting info, I also like to pass it along from one forum to another. As an example I had a very interesting posting made to my 'metal benchwork' discussion just recently by a gentleman from Switzerland. I copied and pasted into several other forums where I had this same discussion going on,....something that perhaps the participants on those other forums may have never run across, even though they held some interest in the subject matter.
We all go to many different forums, and learn from what others have done, it's not just you that doess this and it's nothing about any "territorial rights".
Do you think we all just huddle together in our own little worlds?
Frank, I replied to you PM and asked you a question about masking tape.
Antonio,
I used a #80 for most of them, along with a #79 in some so I could add CA to some. The grabs are a tight fit.......they are #80. I only broke one bit, in 9 cars.......but I have a lot of practice...LOL
Take Care!
Frank
railandsail I am sorry some of you fellows are disturbed by my cross posting. Perhaps I need to explain it from my viewpoint. I find it a bit childish when different forums squabble over territorial 'rights'.
I am sorry some of you fellows are disturbed by my cross posting. Perhaps I need to explain it from my viewpoint.
I find it a bit childish when different forums squabble over territorial 'rights'.
A big problem with cross posting is that the cross post is almost always without context. So, once a cross post occurs, we have to either take it as gospel truth or track down the forum that it came from and read through the entire thread. So, in effect, we are replying not only to you but to the remarks of members of another forum. After awhile, there is more confusion created than clarity. And, after awhile, the cross poster runs the risk that no one on this forum will bother to reply because everyone eventually realizes that their replies, their ideas, their opinions, are being second guessed by posts on another forum.
So, it's not so much about territorial rights as it is about the value, or lack thereof, of one's reply, one's ideas, one's opinions.
Rich
Alton Junction
Topic twist question:
Hello Frank (ZStripe).
What size drill bit did you use to open the holes on your Mainline shell? I've stripped a Mainline shell and want to install the handrails/grabs before I metalize it.
zstripe This car has added hand rails which I installed which they also have a add on kit for: They also come with decals for every train that used that car in the name trains. I have not made up My mind yet on that issue so there are no names or numbers. Take Care! Frank
This car has added hand rails which I installed which they also have a add on kit for:
They also come with decals for every train that used that car in the name trains. I have not made up My mind yet on that issue so there are no names or numbers.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
railandsail zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights. Frank Wouldn't the whole bottom of the car have to be changed over to make the change from truck mounted Talgo style couplers to that newer style coupler? It appears to me from some images I've seen of the two types, the bottoms of the two different cars are different up in the coupler area??
zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights. Frank
I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights.
Wouldn't the whole bottom of the car have to be changed over to make the change from truck mounted Talgo style couplers to that newer style coupler? It appears to me from some images I've seen of the two types, the bottoms of the two different cars are different up in the coupler area??
No they Do Not have to be changed. All the holes are already there....you just have to put on the different trucks, swing arm couplers, add the pick-ups in the floor and install the light bar. The interiors are also already there, just unscrew to take out to paint or add figures.
These first two pic's show the Walthers Mainline cars right out of the box and you can see the holes in the chassis floor for the other parts. The trucks are plastic with mounted coupler pockets on them.....
These next pic's are with the metal trucks for pick-up on the floor and the swing arm coupler pockets, all screwed into the holes that are already in the floor. The new parts also come with the necessary screw's etc.. I airbrushed My trucks Aluminum along with the diaphragms which come Black. Also the Kadee 1/4 shank coupler. This car has added hand rails which I installed which they also have a add on kit for:
Cross Postings
I look upon the forums (all of them) as a great library of information from which I am trying to extract as much pertinent information as I can. I often do NOT find all of the POTENTIAL information on a particular subject in only one individual forum. So I try to visit at least 3 to 4.
Likewise when I find some interesting info, I also like to pass it along from one forum to another. As an example I had a very interesting posting made to my 'metal benchwork' discussion just recently by a gentleman from Switzerland. I copied and pasted into several other forums where I had this same discussion going on,....something that perhaps the participants on those other forums may have never run across, even though they held some interest in the subject matter. I like to think that often I go the extra mile to look up 'past/history postings' of subjects,...something I find a lot of people don't bother with, or don't take the time to do. There is a LOT/ton of good information lost in the archives of some of these forums. Often I try to take the time to find it, and when I see that it might contribute to a conversation I try to post it on each of the forums that are having similar discussions.
I find it a bit childish when different forums squabble over territorial 'rights'. Are we participants here to stand up for 'their rights' , or are we the needed fuel to keep their forums going. We all need each other, and as long as we conduct ourselves in a civil and legal manner that should be adequate.
Naturally this multiplicity of forum searches and postings takes time, ...and extra effort as each forum has it own particular software to deal with. That's one reason I utilize a lot of copy/paste functions.Again, sorry for My particular efforts in forum participation, but I guess I honed those skills for many years defending some 'unusual ideas' I had about sailing rig designs, and multihull sailboats in general,....on multiple boating forums.RunningTideYachts.com
railandsailPlease excuse me here as I am always interested in your postings.
Everyone here wants to help you out. You have to help us out by providing as much background information as possible.
Posting replys from other forums that contain the same answers you are asking here isn't helpful. It is like telling the host of a dinner that you know where there's better food but you'll stay here and eat anyway.
Good Luck with your passenger cars—
Regards, Ed
gmpullman zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. Well, not really. The windows don't sit flush with the outer wall of the car. The roof forms the window glass. Very similar to the old Rivarossi cars. railandsail Interesting/informative posting on another forum,... How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that? What answer ARE you looking for? Regards, Ed
zstripe I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets.
Well, not really. The windows don't sit flush with the outer wall of the car. The roof forms the window glass. Very similar to the old Rivarossi cars.
railandsail Interesting/informative posting on another forum,...
How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that?
What answer ARE you looking for?
Please excuse me here as I am always interested in your postings. That other gentleman did provide a link to a Walthers page that addressed the 'name sets of cars' I had not found in my search.
I'm a member on a couple of garden tractor sites/forums, and you don't see any of this cross posting/linking going on.
I go to other model railroad forums, along with lots of people that are members of multiple forums, and you don't see this to the extent that the OP takes it.
I thought that Vinnie had slapped the OP's hands on this once before, but maybe that was because of copyright issues.
My first exposure to forums was with BWM Airheads (motorcycles circa 1960-1995) Cross posting was severely looked down upon, to the point that some people claimed copywrite to their posts.
My next exposure (different subject) promoted the idea that you should ask yourself:
With enough time, the answer to the second question is usually no. Saves a lot of Internet hard feelings on both sides
I am grateful that our hosts put this forum up for free. There are technical problems, like the search engine or the ads, but it's free. I am not going to promote a competitors forum here or do the same at the other forum.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
mbinsewi gmpullman How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that? He always post threads from MRH in here. I don't know what his point is. Kind of sorta what I said in the post I deleted. Mike.
gmpullman How is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that?
He always post threads from MRH in here. I don't know what his point is.
Kind of sorta what I said in the post I deleted.
I also think that it is bad form to post the same questions, verbatim, on several forums and then bounce back and forth between forums, sharing opinions from other forums. Just doesn't seem right. This forum can stand on its own merits.
gmpullmanHow is your copy/paste reply from another forum any more informative than what I wrote in my reply above that?
zstripeI have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets.
Well, not really. The body moldings ARE different. The windows don't sit flush with the outer wall of the car. The roof forms the window glass. Very similar to the old Rivarossi cars.
railandsailInteresting/informative posting on another forum,...
Never mind.
There is a lot of errorneous info on that post You just made.
I have 10 of those so called cheapo mainline cars and they are the same shell/chassis as the top line cars, just lacking metal trucks, light bar, hand rails, swing arm coupler pockets. The trucks that come with them are Talgo style plastic with metal wheelsets, that must be changed to power the lights. They had and probably still do have add on kits for the Mainline cars to convert them into the high dollar cars and that's what I did. I saved 35 dollars per car that way. You don't have to do any mods to the shell or chassis, because like I said they are the same.......just remove the parts that came with them and screw in the new parts. Holes etc. are already there. No big deal........You don't even have to change the couplers, they are Walthers protomax couplers exact Kadee clones. I did change mine to Kadee 30 series 1/4'' shank couplers for a closer fit for the diaphragms, which I painted Aluminum, they come black.
I don't have any problem with tracking.....none of My curves are under 36''. They are supposed to handle 24'' curves, but I believe that is a marketing ploy....those are long cars.......no need to say anymore on that!.
Interesting/informative posting on another forum,...
1. Is the lighting pick up a metal shoe over the truck that contacts a screw on the top of the truck? That is the Walther's design. 2. Yes, Walther's "Name Train" series deluxe cars come with Preiser figures in them. 3. Walther's has recently run "Name Train" series cars for all three of the roads you mention B&O, C&O, and Santa Fe. 4. Walther's Proto cars will have metal trucks. The deluxe cars originally only sold in sets, but people who purchased sets and broke them up made the retail list between $90 and $150 depending on type of car and whether or not they were sound equipped. Not having the box will lower the price as these were made for collectors. The boxes had special sleeves on them branded with the train name. https://www.walthers.com/catalog/category/view/id/13423 The non-deluxe cars came in two versions with lights and without lights. List hovering around the $80 price. Box will not be important here. Personally I try never to pay more than $50. I got the Hiawatha and Empire Builder sets (non-deluxe) in the $34-$43 range because I waited for the used market. Some of these sets increase in value until the next time Walther's runs them and then there is a reset. Plus Walthers seems to increase the price by at least 10% at each run. Then there are just the generic Walther's Proto "Streamline" and "Heavyweight" passenger cars that run in the $60 price range. And finally Walther's has a cheapo line called Mainline. I don't know much about these.