Paul3 CTConrail,N-scale Clejan flat kits are available (trucks & couplers not included): http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/clejan_spine.html The real problem would be finding the correct "Trailiner" logo decal in N-scale. We don't even have them in HO scale, but you could piece together the rest of the decals in N-scale from Microscale. You'd have to come up with something else for the "Trailiner" part. If you do buy these kits, the car is black with white lettering, and all grabs, stirrups and handrails are bright yellow. BTW, I see that Atlas made the NE-5 caboose in N-scale in 2016. Well good, because Microscale makes the Trailiner caboose decals in N-scale. The two Trailiner cabooses were used on HB-8 and BH-7, which were the all-TOFC trains on the NH. Here's the HO version from IM:https://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs1203.htm Too bad about Springfield, but I understand. Our next show (and only show) in Connecticut is going to be at the NHRHTA Reunion Show in Essex in Sept. The rest of our shows are in eastern Mass. (Taunton, Hingham, Marlboro) and, of course, West Springfield. My handle over on the NH Forum is Paul Cutler III.
CTConrail,N-scale Clejan flat kits are available (trucks & couplers not included):
http://www.nscalekits.co.uk/clejan_spine.html
The real problem would be finding the correct "Trailiner" logo decal in N-scale. We don't even have them in HO scale, but you could piece together the rest of the decals in N-scale from Microscale. You'd have to come up with something else for the "Trailiner" part. If you do buy these kits, the car is black with white lettering, and all grabs, stirrups and handrails are bright yellow.
BTW, I see that Atlas made the NE-5 caboose in N-scale in 2016. Well good, because Microscale makes the Trailiner caboose decals in N-scale. The two Trailiner cabooses were used on HB-8 and BH-7, which were the all-TOFC trains on the NH. Here's the HO version from IM:https://www.intermountain-railway.com/distrib/ccs/html/ccs1203.htm
Too bad about Springfield, but I understand. Our next show (and only show) in Connecticut is going to be at the NHRHTA Reunion Show in Essex in Sept. The rest of our shows are in eastern Mass. (Taunton, Hingham, Marlboro) and, of course, West Springfield.
My handle over on the NH Forum is Paul Cutler III.
Wow I never knew these were made. Thanks. I have a stash of MTL trucks so thats no issue nor is painting them. I do not think I will be able to run body mount couplers like it recommends because of the radiuses in my track plan even though I have a bunch of MTL body mount couplers.
Yes I have seen the caboose and almost bought one on ebay. They are a little pricey. When the seller finally dropped the price to $40 someone else bought both so I never got a chance to buy them. I have seen the decals for the caboose and was going to paint and decal one of my LNE cabooses but I would rather buy one if possible. As for trailers I could use the Diesel hood logos for them however like you said no Trailiner decal. I have decal paper for the printer but my printer is an inkjet and with the lettering being so small I don't think it would come out right because of the resolution. Time to invest in a laser printer.
Yeah really wish I could have made it this year to the show. Always had such a great time there and got a lot of great deals. Going to definitely plan for next year. My daughter should be able to make it through something like that by then.
Paul3 CTConrail,Yes, this Shoreliner (33-1) is full of pics. Just about the whole issue (over 30 pages) is about NH TOFC. For a quick look at NH TOFC pics, take a look at this NH HO modeling article:https://newhavenrailroad1959.webs.com/2009nhrhtamodelclinic.htm I'd say there would be significant overlap from era to era. Figure that all the trailers were privately owned (except for the NETCo. ones; that was the NH's company), so trailer updating was on them. And not all trucking companies would convert to the new length all at once. Certainly, the NH mixed Clejan cars with the older 40' cars. I've seen plenty of photos showing that. And 17200 and 17300 cars have been in the same pics before. Generally, I haven't seen many of if any pics of the 50' twin cars mixed with the 40' single cars, but it must have happened. I don't think any of the 50' cars mingled with the Clejans. Really, the NH pics I've seen of TOFC show a real mixed bag of trailers from every kind imaginable: vans, reefers, flatbeds, drop-types, stake bodies, canvas roof, etc. About the only thing I haven't seen are cattle trailers and tankers. If you're coming to West Springfield next weekend, the NHRHTA will be there and should have Shoreliner 33-1 there at the show. If you want, I'll put one aside with your forum name on it ("CTConrail"). Just come by the table (in the Better Living Center) and ask for your copy. I'll make sure the guys know. I'm the "train show boss" for the NHRHTA these days, but at Springfield I'm usually walking around rather than at the table. I know, I know; I should be staffing the table but I can't help it; there's so much to see! Anyways, just tell them Paul Cutler put a Shoreliner aside for you.
CTConrail,Yes, this Shoreliner (33-1) is full of pics. Just about the whole issue (over 30 pages) is about NH TOFC.
For a quick look at NH TOFC pics, take a look at this NH HO modeling article:https://newhavenrailroad1959.webs.com/2009nhrhtamodelclinic.htm
I'd say there would be significant overlap from era to era. Figure that all the trailers were privately owned (except for the NETCo. ones; that was the NH's company), so trailer updating was on them. And not all trucking companies would convert to the new length all at once.
Certainly, the NH mixed Clejan cars with the older 40' cars. I've seen plenty of photos showing that. And 17200 and 17300 cars have been in the same pics before. Generally, I haven't seen many of if any pics of the 50' twin cars mixed with the 40' single cars, but it must have happened. I don't think any of the 50' cars mingled with the Clejans.
Really, the NH pics I've seen of TOFC show a real mixed bag of trailers from every kind imaginable: vans, reefers, flatbeds, drop-types, stake bodies, canvas roof, etc. About the only thing I haven't seen are cattle trailers and tankers.
If you're coming to West Springfield next weekend, the NHRHTA will be there and should have Shoreliner 33-1 there at the show. If you want, I'll put one aside with your forum name on it ("CTConrail"). Just come by the table (in the Better Living Center) and ask for your copy. I'll make sure the guys know. I'm the "train show boss" for the NHRHTA these days, but at Springfield I'm usually walking around rather than at the table. I know, I know; I should be staffing the table but I can't help it; there's so much to see! Anyways, just tell them Paul Cutler put a Shoreliner aside for you.
Wow that is a really awesome article. I've searched all over and could find little to no pictures online. Thanks for the info also, just ordered a bunch of Classic Metal Works trucks and trailers. If only I could find Clejans in N scale but I think that is a losing battle. Not enough demand I suppose.
As far as West Springfield goes I wish I could make it. Last time I have been was probably 20 years ago with my dad when I was in high school. I recently got back into the hobby (within the last year). I got my middle child very interested in trains and I was just telling my wife last month I want to bring her to West Springfield like my dad used to with me but she is still only 2 years old and I don't think she would make it more than a half hour (terrible 2's and all). I really appreciate the offer though. I will just have to send in the mail order form with a check I guess.
By the way what is your name on the NHRHTA forum? I have been asking a lot of questions on there. You probably have answered some. My name is NAmenta.
Paul3 CTConrail,As NHTX said, the NH didn't have 57'6" flats. The original 1937 NH TOFC flats were a certain number of flats (but not all) from the 17200-series. These were cast steel cars that were 49' 3.25" long over end sills, with 24' trailers mounted in pairs:http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17200-17274.pdf Atlas made N-scale models of this, but not exactly NH prototype:http://archive.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/nflatcars/37573.jpg When trailer length went up to 26' during WWII, the flats got longer. In 1944, the NH purchased and converted 25 riveted 53' 6" (over end sills) 17300-series flats for TOFC, still set up for twin trailers:http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17300-17399.pdf In the early-1950's, trailer length went up again to 32' and 35', and the NH abandoned the twin-trailer per flat design and went for singles. They built 100 cast steel flats in the 17600-series that were 40' 0" over end sills in 1951. They built another 100 identical flats in the 17700-series in 1953 (so close they used just one drawing for both): http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17500-17799.pdf In 1954, they ordered fifty 40' 0" (over end sills) welded flats in the 17000-series for TOFC service: http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17000-17049.pdf All of the above TOFC cars used a single apron plate (think of the plate between a steam loco cab and a tender). This plate was spring loaded and was located at one end of the car only as all NH TOFC ramps faced "railroad East" (the same way). TOFC service in this era was strictly home road; TOFC's didn't roam the national network at this time. All RR's used different methods, deck heights, end ramps, etc. The NH used the patented CGW method of jack stands, blocking, and chain tie downs in this era. When a trailer was backed onto the flat (eventually using a semi cab with a hydraulic lifting 5th wheel), a crew chocked the wheels and placed a pair of metal plates under the landing gear to protect the wood deck. The trailer was lowered and the cab disconnected. The crew set up a pair of screw jack stands and a beam of wood under the nose of the trailer and tightened them up, then did the same to the rear of the trailer. A pair of chain tie-downs were made fast from the trailer frame to rings welded to the flat's frame through the deck, fore and aft. Why? Trailers on flats blowing tires were a real concern back then, and a trailer with blown tires may shift, perhaps fall off the flat at speed. This would be bad.In 1955, the NH experimented with the Clejan system, which used rollercoaster-like skates mounted on trailers to eliminate the above labor in conventional trailer service. These skates engaged the I-beam center sill of the car, and the cars had spring loaded hooks that would engage the skates to lock them in place but still allow movement fore and aft for shock protection. One man could tie down each trailer, which was a large savings in time and labor. The NH built two pre-production Clejan flats (18000-18001) that were 75' 1" over end sills:http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/18000-18001.pdfSatisfied with the car design, 200 Clejan flats were built in 1956 in the 18100-series (sorry, no drawing on the website). The only major difference was the addition of full length handrails and the production cars were made to be 79' 6" long. To join cars together, a small piece of I-beam on a hinge was used. Unfortunately for the NH, the ACF hitch was invented shortly thereafter and trailer length grew again to 40'. The Clejan idea never really took off across the nation, and so the NH sold their Clejan cars to the SP and in 1962-63 leased 50 G-85 TOFCs numbered in the 16000-series. These were 85' cars with ACF hitches. The NH kept these to the end.All of this is covered in more detail (with pictures) in the NHRHTA's Shoreliner Magazine Volume 33 Issue 1, still available through the NHRHTA's website.
CTConrail,As NHTX said, the NH didn't have 57'6" flats.
The original 1937 NH TOFC flats were a certain number of flats (but not all) from the 17200-series. These were cast steel cars that were 49' 3.25" long over end sills, with 24' trailers mounted in pairs:http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17200-17274.pdf
Atlas made N-scale models of this, but not exactly NH prototype:http://archive.atlasrr.com/Images/NFreightCars/nflatcars/37573.jpg
When trailer length went up to 26' during WWII, the flats got longer. In 1944, the NH purchased and converted 25 riveted 53' 6" (over end sills) 17300-series flats for TOFC, still set up for twin trailers:http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17300-17399.pdf
In the early-1950's, trailer length went up again to 32' and 35', and the NH abandoned the twin-trailer per flat design and went for singles. They built 100 cast steel flats in the 17600-series that were 40' 0" over end sills in 1951. They built another 100 identical flats in the 17700-series in 1953 (so close they used just one drawing for both):
http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17500-17799.pdf
In 1954, they ordered fifty 40' 0" (over end sills) welded flats in the 17000-series for TOFC service: http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/17000-17049.pdf
All of the above TOFC cars used a single apron plate (think of the plate between a steam loco cab and a tender). This plate was spring loaded and was located at one end of the car only as all NH TOFC ramps faced "railroad East" (the same way). TOFC service in this era was strictly home road; TOFC's didn't roam the national network at this time. All RR's used different methods, deck heights, end ramps, etc.
The NH used the patented CGW method of jack stands, blocking, and chain tie downs in this era. When a trailer was backed onto the flat (eventually using a semi cab with a hydraulic lifting 5th wheel), a crew chocked the wheels and placed a pair of metal plates under the landing gear to protect the wood deck. The trailer was lowered and the cab disconnected. The crew set up a pair of screw jack stands and a beam of wood under the nose of the trailer and tightened them up, then did the same to the rear of the trailer. A pair of chain tie-downs were made fast from the trailer frame to rings welded to the flat's frame through the deck, fore and aft. Why? Trailers on flats blowing tires were a real concern back then, and a trailer with blown tires may shift, perhaps fall off the flat at speed. This would be bad.In 1955, the NH experimented with the Clejan system, which used rollercoaster-like skates mounted on trailers to eliminate the above labor in conventional trailer service. These skates engaged the I-beam center sill of the car, and the cars had spring loaded hooks that would engage the skates to lock them in place but still allow movement fore and aft for shock protection. One man could tie down each trailer, which was a large savings in time and labor. The NH built two pre-production Clejan flats (18000-18001) that were 75' 1" over end sills:http://www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh/frtdgms/18000-18001.pdfSatisfied with the car design, 200 Clejan flats were built in 1956 in the 18100-series (sorry, no drawing on the website). The only major difference was the addition of full length handrails and the production cars were made to be 79' 6" long. To join cars together, a small piece of I-beam on a hinge was used.
Unfortunately for the NH, the ACF hitch was invented shortly thereafter and trailer length grew again to 40'. The Clejan idea never really took off across the nation, and so the NH sold their Clejan cars to the SP and in 1962-63 leased 50 G-85 TOFCs numbered in the 16000-series. These were 85' cars with ACF hitches. The NH kept these to the end.All of this is covered in more detail (with pictures) in the NHRHTA's Shoreliner Magazine Volume 33 Issue 1, still available through the NHRHTA's website.
Wow thanks for all of that! I need to order that issue for sure. Does it include a decent amount if pictures? One of my first N scale cars years ago when I was in my early teens was one of the twin TOFC Atlas but in Conrail. Still have it so I am familiar with them. I just got 4 Intermountain 173xx series 53'6" flats. I want to see pictures of what they looked like loaded with trailers. Do you know if once trailer sizes went up at various points in time they stopped using the previously used shorter trailers altogether? Were different length and type of flat cars and/or trailers ever mixed and matched on a train or was it when they new equipment was purchased old was sold?
Do you know where I can purchase old issues of Shoreliner online? Looks like I have to mail in my order.
NHTX CTConrail, New Haven did not have 57'6" flatcars of any type. NH flatcars converted to piggyback service by the Readville MA shops were of 40' 8" over-strikers length and, numbered 17000-17049, 17500-17799. Some 53'6" cars from the 17300-17399 series were also converted to piggybackers, but were conventional 70 ton cars. The Clejans and G-85s were all 85 foot cars. I believe the cars you ordered are similar to a later type of car as used by Trailer Train in general freight service. Not knowing your interest in protptype adherence, I heartily suggest you visit www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh which has a roster of NH freight equipment as well as diagrams for these cars. The New Haven color guide put out by Morning Sun Books will also help you spend your hobby dollars wisely when it comes to NH rolling stock.
CTConrail,
New Haven did not have 57'6" flatcars of any type. NH flatcars converted to piggyback service by the Readville MA shops were of 40' 8" over-strikers length and, numbered 17000-17049, 17500-17799. Some 53'6" cars from the 17300-17399 series were also converted to piggybackers, but were conventional 70 ton cars. The Clejans and G-85s were all 85 foot cars.
I believe the cars you ordered are similar to a later type of car as used by Trailer Train in general freight service. Not knowing your interest in protptype adherence, I heartily suggest you visit www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh which has a roster of NH freight equipment as well as diagrams for these cars. The New Haven color guide put out by Morning Sun Books will also help you spend your hobby dollars wisely when it comes to NH rolling stock.
Thanks. I believe Bachmann makes 52' 6" tofc as well so if I find any cheap I will buy them to repaint and decal. It will be closer to prototype than these 57s. I like to be prototypical if possible however I doubt many people will notice if I run these 57 footers in New Haven lettering. It has been very hard to find pictures of flat cars used for TOFC Trailiner service, Clejans included. I did buy a handful of Intermountain New Haven 53' 6" 70 ton flats. Question, when they were converted for tofc were fold-up ramps or trailer mounts added?Thanks for the link by the way. Very good resource for me to have.
Paul3 CTConrail,The NH ordered 200 79'6" Clejan TOFC cars in 1956. These were eventually sold to the SP in the 1960's. The NH got 50 G-85 General American 85' TOFC cars in 1963 and used them right 'til the end. This does not count the number of 50' and 40' flats the NH used in TOFC service as well.
CTConrail,The NH ordered 200 79'6" Clejan TOFC cars in 1956. These were eventually sold to the SP in the 1960's.
The NH got 50 G-85 General American 85' TOFC cars in 1963 and used them right 'til the end.
This does not count the number of 50' and 40' flats the NH used in TOFC service as well.
Hey Paul do you know if New Haven used 57' 6" flat cars for TOFC service? I ordered a couple MTL converted flat cars with trailers I am going to paint and decal in NH. Not sure if its prototypical but I thought I remember seeing a similar style model in HO.
mbinsewi That's excellent! Off you go! The printed shells will give you a great opportunity for locomotive building and detailing. Mike.
That's excellent! Off you go! The printed shells will give you a great opportunity for locomotive building and detailing.
Mike.
Yeah the shells seem pretty nice. Have not ordered them yet but they are on shapeways and I have ordered from shapeways .quality is pretty good becaise of the type of printer they use.
My You Tube
Well I am all in now. I have purchased 5 New Haven engines, a couple are very nice pieces and a handful of rolling stock since making this post. Definitely not as much available in N scale but enough to make it work. Luckily I can get 3d printed E33 and EP5 bodies that are made to fit on existing engines so I will be doing some custom engines also since I am going catenary.
OldEngineman They ran right down the center. I remember running back and forth over it with a little switcher that Conrail kept in service, small enough to go over it. You could only haul 1 car at a time because of the sharp curves on the East Haven side. I still remember parking at Simpkins (the cardboard factory) and going up to the little cafeteria on the 2nd floor for lunch.
They ran right down the center. I remember running back and forth over it with a little switcher that Conrail kept in service, small enough to go over it. You could only haul 1 car at a time because of the sharp curves on the East Haven side.
I still remember parking at Simpkins (the cardboard factory) and going up to the little cafeteria on the 2nd floor for lunch.
Pretty cool. How long did you work for Conrail? I am trying to fit the old Tomlinson bridge into my track plan as it was the way trains got to Belle Dock however with my space limitations and how my mainline is set up I am not sure I will be able to fit the bridge unless I used a very tight radius leading to it.
CTConrail wrote: "does anyone know if the tracks on the old Tomlinson Bridge ran down the center or the side like they do on the new bridge?"
Thanks for the history lesson guys. I have started designing a new track plan for a New Haven layout that will take place in New Haven as limited space doesn't allow for much else the way my limitations sit now. It will feature and electrified main, the mainline Y at the Ferry St. Bridge and beginning of Cedar Hill, part of Cedar Hill itself and the Belle Dock branch. The Y in the mainline at Ferry st. just loops around and connects back to itself behind Cedar Hill for continous running. I ordered the stuff months ago to scratch build the NH coaling tower that still stands at Cedar Hill today even though it would have not been in use on a modern layout, it would have been abandoned like it is today. I am just very interested in Cedar Hill and that tower so I wanted to build it. At least now the tower will actually be in Cedar Hill. I wish I had the room to add the Roundhouse that used to be there with the turntable in the center! The layout will also have Union Station which is close enough looking to my Walthers Union Station.
I like the idea of a "what if" Container yard at Belle Dock so I will have a small removable addon module that I can attach to my Belle Dock area and satisfy my Container itch for when I run 80s-90s Conrail ops.
Just orderd the Rapido FL9 with sound in McGinnis paint. She will go nicely with the Con-Cor 5 car NH set I have already. Unfortunately there is not nearly as much available in N, but I did find a 3D printed E33 body that is made to go on an Atlas c628 so that will be my next project and make a nice edition to the layout.
I am glad I posted this question here. I definitely got help coming to a decsion and got a big history lesson on the NH in the process.
PS - does anyone know if the tracks on the old Tomlinson Bridge ran down the center or the side like they do on the new bridge? I don't quite remember.
CTConrail, I am fortunate to know the east end (Boston Division) of the New Haven well enough to have ridden the cab of PA-1s from Boston to New Haven in 1963.
There are a few points I wish to add to this conversation. Yes, NH was a pioneer in piggyback, especially between the Harlem River terminal just north of the east end of the Hell Gate Bridge and New London, Worcester, Providence and Boston. The Railway Express Agency also had a major terminal at Harlem River. On the Boston end, the piggyback terminal was at the Congress Street-Northern Avenue end of the South Boston Freight Yard. Freight service to Castle Island was over trackage laid in East First Street from the west end of the South Boston Freight Terminal throat. This trackage was worked by Alco HH and S type switchers leading to the belief the curvature in some places would not play nicely with 85 foot cars. In the 1960s, cities wanted trains off their streets and Boston was no different. Massport over in Charlestown was located on Mystic Wharf and served by the Boston and Maine over its Mystic Branch which did not feature any street running. By the time containerization began to blossom in the early 1970s, most of New England's industry was gone south or overseas, especially in the Boston area.
With the industrial base eroded, the heavilly taxed land occuppied by expansive yards belonging to the now Penn Central and B&M were albatrosses they couldn't wait to be free of. PC moved most of its traffic to Beacon Park as referred to by Paul Cutler. Guilford retained maybe 8-10 tracks of B&M's once bustling Somerville hump yard while, New Haven's South Boston facility that included the A Street engine terminal and RIP tracks, freight houses belonging to the railroad and freight forwarding companies, team tracks and piggyback facility is down to a single track along the entrance to the Ted Williams Tunnel to East Boston. This solitary track disappears in the vicinity of the old Boston Army Base, serving no one and nothing. The industrial exit was so thorough that CSX was able to close and rip up all but a small handful of tracks at Beacon Park Yard. Now for most purposes, CSX terminates trains at Worcester (wuss-tuh, for all those that call the Reading, the reeding). CSX retained enough ex-CR, exx PC, exxx NYC, exxxx Boston and Albany track to service the produce terminal in Everett as well as a few other bulk shippers in that area, on the harbor front. Seeing the demise of Beacon Park is especially disheartening because my dad used to take me over there on Sunday mornings in the late 1940s, early 1950s to watch the Berkshires and Hudsons get coaled.
The New Haven in its quest to provide piggyback service did indeed employ the General American G-85 flatcar. This same flatcar equipped with pass-through steam lines was operated by the Railway Express Agency out of their Harlem River Terminal. These cars were regular features on certain New Haven passenger trains between Harlem River and Springfield or Boston. The train would stop at S.S.3 and a switcher would pick up or deliver the REA flats. They could not enter the tunnels in NYC due to height. I believe the G-85 was available in N scale, possibly by Microtrains, and is due later this year in HO.
You mentioned wanting a container terminal. Either the Belle Dock in New Haven or, the area of the Bridgeport, south of the Shoreline could host a "what if" container facility, but I vote for Belle Dock. My reason is the Belle Dock branch swings off the Shoreline at Mill River Junction, between New Haven's depot and Air Line Junction, the west end of Cedar Hill Yard. The Air Line runs up to Hartford and Springfield MA. At Springfield, the New Haven shared engine facilities with the B&M, a passenger station with the B&M and the NYC, as well as interchanging freight with both railroads. New Haven's "Washingtonian" and "Montrealer" operated over a CN-B&M-NH-PRR routing and carried equipment from them from terminal to terminal. Suppose the B&M and New Haven collaborated on a container terminal to serve northern New England and eastern Canada. Pooled power and cabooses? What about Canadian power as in Maine?
Conrail and Guilford could have been the successors to the NH and B&M. The line to Springfield was heavy duty railroading both in freigh and passenger traffic. you could even get your fix on electrics moving under wire to Cedar Hill for maintenance or servicing as well as run every type of diesel New Haven had. You would also be able to host Shore line freight and passenger traffic from Air Line Junction and Mill River, coming from and going to staging.
Finally, I want to make you aware of a website with a lot of New Haven information including rosters, maps, consist, and diagram books:
www.alphabetroute.com/nynhh
As always, it is your money, your railroad, your creation--ENJOY!!
PRR8259I would say do what makes you happy and forget about what others might like or what was historically "right" in context. You have to model--or collect--for you. Otherwise, later you might just end up selling the things that "don't fit".
I agree 100% with John. Will be 77 this yr....parents have been gone for many yrs. Just remember.....time waits for no one......do what You can, while you still can.
Now You can go jump in the lake if You want........I won't talk You out of it.......I don't have to live with it.......
Good Luck, in Your decision!
Frank
Paul3 wrote: "The business continued doing well right into the 1970's, when PC decided all freight traffic had to go out through Albany and killed the TOFC market on the old NH."
I briefly held the fireman's seat on TV7/TV8 out of New Haven (to Springfield) back in '79.
The cars were loaded "circus style" on two tracks on the east side of Cedar Hill. Train pulled onto the B&A heading east at Springfield, and an engine from West Springfield would grab the rear and pull it back across the river into the yard.
The crew would stay at the Y there, and get something back in the wee hours of the morning.
Wow very cool. I am going to have to see if I can find anything like this in N scale. Doubtful . You are an encyclopedia of knowledge on the New Haven sir!
Paul3--
Thank you for the illuminating facts.
John
Paul3 OldEngineman,Actually, there was and still is container point in Boston, specifically in South Boston: the Massport Conley terminal right next to Castle Island. It's never had direct rail service, but before they closed Beacon Park Yard, they would truck them from Southie to Beacon Park and put them on single level stacks. There's a picture on the Wiki page:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_Park_Yard The Boston container port at Castle Island, built by Sea-Land, was actually one of the first in the country, with a second one opening in the early 1970's in Charlestown (Moran Container Terminal).As for TOFC, the NH was a pioneer being the 2nd US RR running "modern" TOFC Trailiner service after the CGW. The NH started TOFC in 1937, using the patented tie downs invented by the CGW in 1936. The NH then became the #1 TOFC railroad in the USA until SP got into it in 1953. The NH had trailer ramps in South Boston, Providence, Springfield, and Harlem River, NY and did an excellent business hauling trailers. In fact, the NH had a series of 50', 40', 80' and 85' TOFC flats over the years, meaning that 40' trailers could fit under the wire just fine. The business continued doing well right into the 1970's, when PC decided all freight traffic had to go out through Albany and killed the TOFC market on the old NH.
OldEngineman,Actually, there was and still is container point in Boston, specifically in South Boston: the Massport Conley terminal right next to Castle Island. It's never had direct rail service, but before they closed Beacon Park Yard, they would truck them from Southie to Beacon Park and put them on single level stacks. There's a picture on the Wiki page:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beacon_Park_Yard
The Boston container port at Castle Island, built by Sea-Land, was actually one of the first in the country, with a second one opening in the early 1970's in Charlestown (Moran Container Terminal).As for TOFC, the NH was a pioneer being the 2nd US RR running "modern" TOFC Trailiner service after the CGW. The NH started TOFC in 1937, using the patented tie downs invented by the CGW in 1936. The NH then became the #1 TOFC railroad in the USA until SP got into it in 1953. The NH had trailer ramps in South Boston, Providence, Springfield, and Harlem River, NY and did an excellent business hauling trailers. In fact, the NH had a series of 50', 40', 80' and 85' TOFC flats over the years, meaning that 40' trailers could fit under the wire just fine. The business continued doing well right into the 1970's, when PC decided all freight traffic had to go out through Albany and killed the TOFC market on the old NH.
Wow awesome stuff thanks! Some I knew some I didn't. Had no idea the NH had flat cars that long! I did know they pioneered TOFC. I always wondered if they ever had a TOFC operation in CT but I guess you answered that. And don't get me started on Penn Central (no offense to anyone who is a fan or models PC). They killed so much here on the old NH rail network, shut down so much and let everything fall into decay and disrepair.
Very good advice John thank you. I am very interested in both. I think the best answer for me is as you and others have said is to try to do an era (60's-80's) where I can run New Haven ops or Conrail ops with a little modification to scenery. Either or would make me happy but also feel like I am missing out on the other. I do want to model New Haven CT as there was a ton of action between the docks and one of the biggest classification yards in the east. No, CT never saw intermodal traffic so I will have to figure a way to satisfy my itch for that when running modern ops.
To the OP--
I have not read any of the other replies, but am replying to your post.
I'm 50 now, with 45 years in this hobby.
For reasons I can't explain, partly first train set, and partly mom's giant mural of Bryce Canyon, UT on the wall behind my childhood layout, I have loved the west since I was little--though have only visited.
My first love railroad was Santa Fe. It just was. I have rationalized, planned, changed my mind, switched railroads, eras, everything under the sun during the last 45 years to the point that the good folks on this and other forums give me some usually good-natured ribbing about all my changes...I have tried to embrace the local railroad where I live, but I was never happy or so happy as with Santa Fe (I'm picky and the blue/yellow freight warbonnet is a difficult scheme for manufacturers to do well--often the giant billboard lettering is off color or not filled in very well--it made it easy until very recent times to reject some models).
After all that, and with Dad, who built much of the Santa Fe-themed layout of my youth, now gone, I finally found a few acceptable rtr Santa Fe engines (all Athearn, so far, including some Genesis). I know the local railroad history where I live exceptionally well, better than many modelers, but will just never be happy "modeling" them. I have tried many times, to fit into the local scene.
After all that, all the trading and lessons learned, I have to say:
Follow your first love. If you like multiple railroads and/or even multiple eras, it's ok. Some great modelers had the rolling stock and motive power to change the entire era and fleet over. They could choose 1950's or 1980's, whatever, on any given day...steam, transition era, or all diesel.
I would say do what makes you happy and forget about what others might like or what was historically "right" in context. You have to model--or collect--for you. Otherwise, later you might just end up selling the things that "don't fit".
Respectfully submitted--
P.S. If you want to and can include something of interest for Dad--great!. My father, if he were still here, would say "do what makes you happy, son".
Autonerd Count me in the "do them both" camp. My modeling follows a timeline of sorts, from New York Cental in the 1930s to Conrail in the 1980s, and it keeps the hobby interesting for me (and means more stuff I can buy!!). I run my trains in different eras, and I like being able to model them all. Recently, I bought a three-pack of F-M C-Lines in late NYC livery plus a couple of spare shells in NYC lightning stripe, so I can switch eras. I'm even thinking about doing a little New Haven, because the McGuiness-era paint jobs are too pretty *not* to model. Ignore the folks who say you -->have<-- to do anything. This is a hobby, not a job. Do what you want! And if you end up with a New Haven Alco DL-109 leading a Conrail U36B and an SD40 in black paint with the PC logo patched out, all pulling a five-set of double stacks, a few wood reefers, some McGuinness-orange boxcars and a Viewliner on the tail end, I promise... I'll never tell! Aaron
Count me in the "do them both" camp. My modeling follows a timeline of sorts, from New York Cental in the 1930s to Conrail in the 1980s, and it keeps the hobby interesting for me (and means more stuff I can buy!!). I run my trains in different eras, and I like being able to model them all. Recently, I bought a three-pack of F-M C-Lines in late NYC livery plus a couple of spare shells in NYC lightning stripe, so I can switch eras. I'm even thinking about doing a little New Haven, because the McGuiness-era paint jobs are too pretty *not* to model.
Ignore the folks who say you -->have<-- to do anything. This is a hobby, not a job. Do what you want! And if you end up with a New Haven Alco DL-109 leading a Conrail U36B and an SD40 in black paint with the PC logo patched out, all pulling a five-set of double stacks, a few wood reefers, some McGuinness-orange boxcars and a Viewliner on the tail end, I promise... I'll never tell!
Aaron
Haha...i don't think I would do that but you're right, it's good to be able to model different eras. I most certainly have an interest in both although I wasn't around for the New Haven I grew up watching the Conrails pass by on what used to be part of New Haven's vast CT trackage but heard all the stories from my dad about when it was the New Haven. Definitely planted the seed for me. And I hear you about being able to buy more stuff!
Actually John my dad isn't really in the hobby anymore and he lives in Florida now. He still loves the New Haven though, and even though he lives in another state the decision to want to model the New Haven has a lot to do with him. I feel like he never got to complete the layout he wanted before he got out of the hobby, just benchwork and track laid. I know that although he is 1000 miles away he would still very much enjoy it whether from seeing pics or videos or seeing my progress when he comes to visit.
Also even though I have all daughters, my middle child really seems to like the trains so this is something I want to hopefully share with her as my dad did with me. I know its hard to keep kids interested in this hobby once they get to a certain age but I am still going to try. She is still young so at the very least I have years left with her helping me and who knows, maybe its something she can pass down to her kids.
CTConrail . . . The Conrail tracks that ran past my house used to belong to the New Haven, a railroad that is also very near and dear to me as it was/is to my father. It's what he always wanted to model when he was in the Hobby when I was young . . .
. . . The Conrail tracks that ran past my house used to belong to the New Haven, a railroad that is also very near and dear to me as it was/is to my father. It's what he always wanted to model when he was in the Hobby when I was young . . .