Ok so this is my dilemma. I have been collecting modern engines, rolling stock and structures for years with the plan of building a modern layout which I made a track plan for and was planning to start soon. As a child Conrail went by my house in CT so I had a natural attachment to Conrail. I plannned to model CSX around the time of the Conrail acquisition so there would be a lot engines and rolling stock still in Conrail paint.
After putting the hobby down for years I started buying a lot again recently. I have been buying more modern equipment the last few months, autoracks, containers, double stack cars, modern box cars, etc.
The Conrail tracks that ran past my house used to belong to the New Haven, a railroad that is also very near and dear to me as it was/is to my father. It's what he always wanted to model when he was in the Hobby when I was young. I still have all his HO equipment (I switched to N years ago). Lately I have had the urge to shelf all my modern equipment and start buying 50s era rolling stock and New Haven engines. I bought a passenger car set I got a killer deal on.
If I model the New Haven I can actually model a prototypical area (New Haven-Bridgeport) which would be nice to be able to do, where as if I model the modern era I was initially going to it was not really a specific prototypical place. I had a lot crammed into a not so huge layout as I wanted to have a large yard that has to hold 89' cars and container port which both take up a lot of space. This led to a somewhat cluttered track plan.
I just don't want to regret my decision either way I go so I guess I am looking for feedback and opinions from all of you so I can better choose which I want to do with the least regret possible. Ultimately I will Need to make the decision either way. So what do you think? Thanks guys and sorry for the very long post!
LION likes the New Haven.
Lots of passenger traffice, Many locomotives and cars. Be sure to get the Osgood-Brqadley cars in green. They are the cat's meow.
Nive cantinary woork too!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion LION likes the New Haven. Lots of passenger traffice, Many locomotives and cars. Be sure to get the Osgood-Brqadley cars in green. They are the cat's meow. Nive cantinary woork too! ROAR
Very nice Catenary work here in the NEC, especially in the bridgeport area. I'm partial to the McGinnis paint scheme although McGinnis was the reason for the New Haven's 2nd bankruptcy and ultimate demise. So much awesome history with this railroad though.
When I bought a steam engine, then a few more, I realized I was out of my era. My solution was to dual-era my layout, with two sets of engines, two sets of vehicles and a bunch of freight cars, particularly some older ones but as many as possible that would serve both eras if I didn't provide magnifying glasses to read the Built On dates.
I think it's reason enough to build the New Haven just so you can run the Rapido EP-5.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Ultimately its your decision.
There is proably more Conrail engines than New Haven engines. Cars should be a wash, lots of options for lots of eras.
Options could be to design a more "generic era" layout that would handle both era's trains. A yard is a yard so it can be either New Haven or Conrail. You could make the container ramp a "module" and swap it out with a freight house or port.
For a real low budget change, make the "container yard" , several paired tracks with paving around them and then its a 2000's container yard and a 1950's "produce terminal". You spot bunches of reefers and trucks drive up to unload them. Very common on the East Coast.
Then various buildings could be swapped out to change the layout a half a century either way.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
MisterBeasley When I bought a steam engine, then a few more, I realized I was out of my era. My solution was to dual-era my layout, with two sets of engines, two sets of vehicles and a bunch of freight cars, particularly some older ones but as many as possible that would serve both eras if I didn't provide magnifying glasses to read the Built On dates. I think it's reason enough to build the New Haven just so you can run the Rapido EP-5.
I thought of trying to make a dual purpose but depending on how prototypical and realistic I want to be the vehicles and scenery (lighting, billboards etc) are very different between the 50s and late 90s early 2000s. Man I wish Rapido had that EP5 for N scale however their FL9 in New Haven paint is friggin beautiful and on my to buy list.
My choice would be the New Haven era. Rapido is bringing forth some of the most accurate New Haven models on the planet. New Haven seemed to go out of its way to be just a tad different from everybody else, making modeling it an adventure. Depending on your quest for accuracy in modeling New Haven equipment, I would research the model vs. prototype before plunking down my cash. There is a LOT of stuff out there that never even came close to running on the NH. People have blown wads of money on glossily advertised cartoonish offerings, so become an educated shopper, if realism matters.
Modeling the NH allows the use of shorter freight cars (40 and 50 footers vs. 60-89 footers). There were more and varied trackside industries using rail, thus increasing operating potential. The choice of New Haven to Bridgeport is a big chunk to chew in any scale. Four track main line with catenary (for the coming EP-5 "Jets" from that company in Canada). Expansive yards in both cities, traffic density that put many model railroads to shame, passenger trains of local and, long distance service.
One factor in modeling the NH is it COULD also be easily changed to a later era by changing some of the structures, the vehicles, and railroad equipment, if larger radius curves are used in initial construction. If the later era is accomodated in the planning of the layout, model all the eras that interest you.
I am doing a similar thing. I started modeling MEC from around 1980; then got the steam loco bug and now have a lot of late 40s equipemt as well. I can run either. New England buildings are not a problem, still many 100+ year old brick buildings and lots of old style wood ones as well. Vehicles really set the era, but they can be changed out easily.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
dehusman Ultimately its your decision. There is proably more Conrail engines than New Haven engines. Cars should be a wash, lots of options for lots of eras. Options could be to design a more "generic era" layout that would handle both era's trains. A yard is a yard so it can be either New Haven or Conrail. You could make the container ramp a "module" and swap it out with a freight house or port. For a real low budget change, make the "container yard" , several paired tracks with paving around them and then its a 2000's container yard and a 1950's "produce terminal". You spot bunches of reefers and trucks drive up to unload them. Very common on the East Coast. Then various buildings could be swapped out to change the layout a half a century either way.
I do like this idea of being able to swap out my container port as a module. Thats a great idea. Ultimately the best solution that would make me the happiest would be to have a versatile layout that can serve both eras however i found it would be hard with scenery (vehicles, billboards, lighting some structures). I want to sacrifice as little realism as possible.
Fans of the NH would obviously push you in that direction. I'm a western fan don't care one way or another. But Paul CutlerIII is a huge NH fan and may chime in here at some point with lots of info.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 Fans of the NH would obviously push you in that direction. I'm a western fan don't care one way or another. But Paul CutlerIII is a huge NH fan and may chime in here at some point with lots of info.
Yeah that's the thing, I am a fan of both so no matter which way I go I will have some form of regret. I would love to find a way to make a prototypical New Haven layout but still have it versatile enough to be able to run my modern equipment on it for realistic modern ops without changing out a ton of things on the layout every time i switch eras.
I spent 3-some decades being (or pretending to be) a Pennsy modeler, buying both rolling stock but also books and research sources about a railroad I had never seen in person. Very undisciplined as I had locomotives that ran only in the east as well as some that ran only in Ohio. A jumble of eras too.
Then LifeLike P2K released the very locomotive, an SW switcher, that was regularly working the local industries in my old home town, a locomotive that my best train watching buddy and I must have seen 100s of times. In an instant I abandoned any thought of the Pennsy and began the process of gathering information, rolling stock, structures, etc. for a C&NW layout set in the 1960s modeling my old home town. Fortunately I had been a member of the C&NW Historical Society for a long time anyway so I already had quite a bit of information.
I cannot begin to advise on CSX vs. New Haven but I will say that depending on how accurate and prototypical you intend to be, choose the one (and the era) you feel you know the most about or can acquire the data about most readily, or find the most interesting. I sense from your "body English" that it is the New Haven.
Dave Nelson
I am a fan of the NH, Conrail and CSX. The majority of the structures on my layout can pass for all eras. I do run CSX and CR engines and freight cars at the same time. Think of it as 'what if CR survived as it's own RR' scenario. In this day and age, railroads pool their power. Many railroads do 'Heritage' paint schemes and on occassion break out some old rolling stock. The EP-5 would be a tough one to have on the layout, unless you're doing an Excursion train, then everything goes!
Bottom line, it's your railroad, run what you want. If you're going to only model a specific era, then say goodbye to your modern trains...
Neal
CTConrailYeah that's the thing, I am a fan of both so no matter which way I go I will have some form of regret. I would love to find a way to make a prototypical New Haven layout but still have it versatile enough to be able to run my modern equipment on it for realistic modern ops without changing out a ton of things on the layout every time i switch eras.
But there is another option, especially that CDOT is now running trains east of the Haven. They are putting McGinnis schemes on new stuff.
But really, suppose that NH never went belly up. Suppose they kept the Bay Ridge line running and healthy, or that they partnered with CSX via that old bridge that is now a walking path.
I always thought of a Penn-Northern where PRR partnered with NP instead of NYC. Woulda made a whole different thing. Maybe then NYC would partner with GN.
Thanks for the tips and suggestions guys. While it is nice to be prototypical there really is no rule book that needs to be followed. I'm not shooting to have my layout featured in MR. I do like the idea of having a removable container port module for switching out eras so I can run New Haven only.
I could also model earlier Conrail (abandoning the CSX). A lot of Conrail's early power that came from Penn Central was ex NH stuff. This would make switching operating eras easier as far as scenery not really having to change much if at all. While I would love to have a prototypical NH layout like Rick Abramson's Brideport layout I don't know why I have it stuck in my head that it NEEDS to be prototypical.
BroadwayLion But really, suppose that NH never went belly up. Suppose they kept the Bay Ridge line running and healthy, or that they partnered with CSX via that old bridge that is now a walking path.
Are you talking about the Poughkeepsie bridge on the Maybrook line? I love that bridge. I wish I had the room to model it. Its a shame Penn Central let so much go to crap. At least it still stands even though it will never see a train again.
Do them both. I don't know your space situation (since it wasn't described), but maybe you could do two layout decks one for each. Since they won't connect you don't have to worry about things like helixes or grades.
They don't have to be equal either - you could make say the NH smaller just to satisfy that itch.
Or... Years ago I saw a layout article about a guy who was in HO. He build a small N layout on wheels that could slide out from under the HO layout when he wanted to run it. Maybe you could do the same.
Personally, I'm modeling the Maryland and Pennsylvania in S. But that doesn't stop me from buying HO and O stuff that appeals to me. Eventually I may do a small layout in each of those scales.
Or not. This is a hobby do what's fun. If that means 2 layouts, or 3 or whatever, go for it.
Paul
Hello, CTConrail!
If you're into the NH at all, you should visit the NHRHTA's website at www.nhrhta.org where there is a free forum to talk NH with other like-minded folks. You don't have to be a member of the NHRHTA to post on the forum, but I highly recommend it. You get 4 "Shoreliner" magazines and 1 or 2 "SpeedWitch" modeling magazines (all full color) with your membership.
The NHRHTA is a very active group of people, and was the very first one-railroad Special Interest Group (SIG). It was created in 1961 as a modeling organization and became officially tied into the NH's PR Dept. In exchange for the group handling all inquiries from the public about NH equipment, the NH PR Dept. printed our newsletter in New Haven, CT and sent them by train to one of our members in Bridgeport who had a bulk mailing contract. They bundled them up and put them on the next westbound caboose with orders to kick them off at Bridgeport. We're probably the only railroad historical group that had our newsletters delivered by train.
Conrail does have an active historical group as well, and they're nice bunch of folks but they are a much larger system. The chances are not as good that they'll concentrate much on New England, which really was more of a backwater on CR vs. the NHRHTA. We're only about southern New England and New York.
N-scale is something I don't know enough about, as far as what's available. I know Atlas made NE-6 cabooses, Rapido's FL9, OB and 8600 coaches, and the old Con-Cor PA's and DL-109's (which are on the PA chassis), but after that I'm kinda lost. The NHRHTA sells HO-only, I'm afraid, because that's where the money is. Tho' someone is selling N-scale EP-5 & EF-4 shells on Shapeways. The great thing about the NH is that while it wasn't very big (30th in size) it was incredibly diverse: steam, diesel, & electric; from the biggest city in the world to humble tiny villages; mountains and ocean beaches; trolleys and car floats; trucks, busses, & ferry boats; staid conservative paint jobs followed by flashy bright paint schemes; high speed passenger trains that were among the finest in the land to street running local freights. The diesel roster was only about 550 units total, but they bought 27 different types (in less than 30 years!). About the only thing you can't model with the NH is desert terrain.If you do decide to model both, stick with the pre-Acela era for CR and you should be okay. Parts of the ex-NH system didn't change much from 1968 to 1998, so if you model that you should be good. Think lots of old brick buildings...just that on the NH every one would have had a siding to it. For CR, not so much. The sidings were still there, just abandoned.riogrande5761,Who, me?
IRONROOSTER Do them both. I don't know your space situation (since it wasn't described), but maybe you could do two layout decks one for each. Since they won't connect you don't have to worry about things like helixes or grades.
This is a good idea. I am not working with a ton of space by any means. My original track plan is a 9.5' x 7' x 3' wide on the widest section in a pretty well full storage room (spare bedroom). I did however incorporate a spot for a helix to drop down a level if I ever wanted to expand but I could just make another shelf and do what you suggested!
Paul3 Hello, CTConrail! If you're into the NH at all, you should visit the NHRHTA's website at www.nhrhta.org where there is a free forum to talk NH with other like-minded folks. You don't have to be a member of the NHRHTA to post on the forum, but I highly recommend it. You get 4 "Shoreliner" magazines and 1 or 2 "SpeedWitch" modeling magazines (all full color) with your membership.
I am a member on their forum. I have found a plethora of info on the old system from there such as maps and info on the old Cedar Hill yard in New Haven. Very good resource and a very knowledgeable group of guys!
And yeah I would do pre Acela. My newest amtrak engine as of now is an F40ph. I turned my Amtrak FL9 into a ex Penn Central Conrail locomotive.
If it was me, I'd do just one, probably the one railroad that I had the most of, then I'd keep it within a two year span and detail accordingly. Signage,vehicles,etc.But you seem passionate about both, so you may want to model a more generic spot that looks close enough to fit both eras, so switching back and forth is easier. Myself, I model the New Haven, loosely based on the old Beacon branch off the Maybrook, but more based on a year(1968), then the actual prototype setting. So vehicles, signs, rr equipment looks like that year.
m horton If it was me, I'd do just one, probably the one railroad that I had the most of, then I'd keep it within a two year span and detail accordingly. Signage,vehicles,etc.But you seem passionate about both, so you may want to model a more generic spot that looks close enough to fit both eras, so switching back and forth is easier. Myself, I model the New Haven, loosely based on the old Beacon branch off the Maybrook, but more based on a year(1968), then the actual prototype setting. So vehicles, signs, rr equipment looks like that year.
68 would be a good year to model as I could have some nice NH diesels and electrics and I could switch ops to earlier Conrail without scenery being too drastically different. I know CT doesn't have a container port but when if I do a removable port module and am running more modern ops it really doesnt have to be prototypical. I am passionate about both which Makes the decision hard.
If anyone else has any ideas or input please feel free to let me know.
CTConrail The Conrail tracks that ran past my house used to belong to the New Haven, a railroad that is also very near and dear to me as it was/is to my father. If I model the New Haven I can actually model a prototypical area (New Haven-Bridgeport) which would be nice to be able to do, where as if I model the modern era I was initially going to it was not really a specific prototypical place. I had a lot crammed into a not so huge layout as I wanted to have a large yard that has to hold 89' cars and container port which both take up a lot of space. This led to a somewhat cluttered track plan.
The Conrail tracks that ran past my house used to belong to the New Haven, a railroad that is also very near and dear to me as it was/is to my father.
I'm not familiar with the particular area, but is modeling that specific line as it was ....or would have been.....in the Conrail era an option? That seems like the best of both worlds. Since you're willing to freelance a place, freelance that line as if it was being run by Conrail.
And there is no reason you can't also run New Haven equipment on the layout too when the mood strikes.
- Douglas
I lived in Connecticut for 25 years, but way after the demise of the NH. I would think that you have two choices here. One is to set up a separate shelf layout, over or under your present operation. In order to avoid having to model the intricacies of the Bridgeport-New Haven section with catenary, etc., perhaps consider modeling the Waterbury Branch from, say, Cedar Hill to Waterbury. The other choice is to change the existing layout completely to New Haven, shelving or selling off all your modern equipment to help finance the project, but perhaps working in HO scale (requires more space) and in an earlier era where you would find a wider variety of rolling stock and locos. Just my .
Russ
Modeling the early '50s Erie in Paterson, NJ. Here's the link to my railroad postcard collection: https://railroadpostcards.blogspot.com/
Doughless I'm not familiar with the particular area, but is modeling that specific line as it was ....or would have been.....in the Conrail era an option? That seems like the best of both worlds. Since you're willing to freelance a place, freelance that line as if it was being run by Conrail. And there is no reason you can't also run New Haven equipment on the layout too when the mood strikes.
I would do that however if I run more modern era trains I really want a container port operation which is not prototypical of CT. I already have all the equipment right down to the port crane. I mean I could always do a removable container port module and when I run modern ops just pretend CT has/had an intermodal operation.
Choice of prototype is a purely subjective choice. There is plenty of equipment made for both roads, I don't see any difficulties getting rolling stock for either road. You have to ask yourself which road would make you happier. The many suggestions to run both and switch eras now and then can be made to work. Buildings last forever, all you have to change are the motor vehicles and the rolling stock, and maybe a few signs. Not too difficult.
In your case, choice of scale/gauge is important. You mentioned you have a stash of HO New Haven equipment. How about your Conrail stuff? Is it N or HO? Your choice of scale/gauge may limit your choices or expand them.
But anty way you slice it, you want to go with the plan that makes you happiest.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
I'm 66 and wish I saw more and remembered more when I was young. PRR the B&O and steam all ended while I was looking the other way.
Still modern stuff, and I'll call Conrail modern, has no interest for me. It's full of graffitti. My interest in old and classic extends to wine, motorcycles and stuff covered in the second amendment. If you are talking women, I strongly suggest you go for the newer models. The newest models may be too high maintenance though.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Erie1951 In order to avoid having to model the intricacies of the Bridgeport-New Haven section with catenary, etc., perhaps consider modeling the Waterbury Branch from, say, Cedar Hill to Waterbury.
In order to avoid having to model the intricacies of the Bridgeport-New Haven section with catenary, etc., perhaps consider modeling the Waterbury Branch from, say, Cedar Hill to Waterbury.
I never considered this, I will have to do more research into the branch to Waterbury. I definitely want to model part of Cedar Hill and Belle Dock in NH. I also don't mind putting up Catenary poles on my main (although I would more than likely need to scratchbuild them) and I love how the main is elevated in Bridgeport.
dstarr The many suggestions to run both and switch eras now and then can be made to work. Buildings last forever, all you have to change are the motor vehicles and the rolling stock, and maybe a few signs. Not too difficult. In your case, choice of scale/gauge is important. You mentioned you have a stash of HO New Haven equipment. How about your Conrail stuff? Is it N or HO? Your choice of scale/gauge may limit your choices or expand them. But anty way you slice it, you want to go with the plan that makes you happiest.
The many suggestions to run both and switch eras now and then can be made to work. Buildings last forever, all you have to change are the motor vehicles and the rolling stock, and maybe a few signs. Not too difficult.
This is what I am leaning toward. With a removable intermodal port module for more modern day ops. I model purely in although I still have my old HO stuff and my dads stuff in my mom's attic which I will never part with but with my space or lack thereof HO is not an option for me currently.
BigDaddy I'm 66 and wish I saw more and remembered more when I was young. PRR the B&O and steam all ended while I was looking the other way. Still modern stuff, and I'll call Conrail modern, has no interest for me. It's full of graffitti. My interest in old and classic extends to wine, motorcycles and stuff covered in the second amendment. If you are talking women, I strongly suggest you go for the newer models. The newest models may be too high maintenance though.
I hear you on stuff covered by the 2nd Amendment although I love my modern "Equipment" as well. I am too young to remember rail cars without graffiti however its definitely gotten worse from when I was a kid. I have always gotten pissed that kids do that to trains, even when I was a kid myself.
CT Conrail wrote: "I do like this idea of being able to swap out my container port as a module."
Weren't any container ports on the old New Haven, nor on Conrail for that matter anywhere in New England. When the stack trains started up in the early 80's, the containers all came from the west coast, and simply couldn't get into New England, not even on the B&A at that time. The very first double-stacks into North Jersey came via the [former Erie] Southern Tier line, the only route with the clearance for them.
A long time ago the New Haven ran some TOFC, but that was back when semi trailers were lower and could fit under the wire between Shore Line Jct. (east of New Haven) and Devon (where they diverted onto the Maybrook line).
I seem to recall maximum height permitted between NH and Devon was about 16'7" or thereabouts. Even high boxcars wouldn't fit.
Back in my days running freight on the New Haven line, even covered hoppers could cause problems -- wasn't unusual to get a call from the dispatcher that we grounded out the wire, and to stop and check things out.
If I was going to model the NH, I'd try for the Danbury branch (had catenary until early 60's, I remember the electrics going up there), Waterbury Branch, Maybrook Line, etc.
Trying to do the New Haven Main would require a lot of space (4 tracks) and a lot of work to make it look right (catenary, etc.).
Oh no, I' m well aware there was never any container service in CT. It was just something I was modeling before I had an epiphany that I want to model the New Haven or CTbin general. I think I can still get away with 3 track main in most spots and still have it look ok. It doesn't need to be 100% prototypical.