I have my eye on a proto 2000 GP 60. I know there were problems with the gears cracking and was wondering if this loco was one of those or if maybe it was resolved when this particular loco came out. Anyone have any knowledge on this. thanks
It's specifically mentioned here:
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-driver-assembly-diesel-wheelset-pkg-2-for-early-proto-2000-r-bl-fa-gp7-9-18-20-30-60-proto-1000-tm-f3
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Thank you for the reply. Maybe I'll pass on this
I beleive Athearn makes wheelsets that can also drop in as replacements. Many well stocked hobby shops also keep a supply since the problem was so widespread and well known.
Because of the wheel problems those Proto2000 engines are often sold at attractive prices. If the loco is otherwise in good shape the cost of the wheel replacement might be modest and the end result is a good buy.
Dave Nelson
It's not a hard or expensive fix, if it needs done at all. Not everyone experienced cracked gears.
This thread may help
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/160710.aspx
My first Proto 2000 was an unused DCC E6. Although the cracked gear issue is mostly ascribed to the 4-axle units (at least from one period) my E6 had problem gears.
I then got into adding loco variety to my UP fleet and found that many P2K locos fit the bill in DC form and I started buying a number of unused (or slightly used) ones, many P2K and P1K, plus Kato, etc., to convert to DCC which has become a favorite project. I will take on any of the Protos knowing that I might have a cracked gear issue. It gives me more choices. I would (and will) gladly do it again.
So, before ignoring the GP60 (I do not have those) I would say just plan on replacing the gears. Many of the GP gear sizes are available on occasion from Walthers (current or from EBay) and/or the Athearn ones fit. It's a simple procedure to change them and it is adviseable to tear it down and clean / re-lube the gearing anyway, so it's little extra effort to get in "new" shape.
Recognize that some of the P2K and/or P1K gears and/or wheel sizes for other locos are different from the GP type that may be the most common. So you will want to know what gearing / wheel size (if changing axles) a particular loco needs.
I say go for it!
Paul
Modeling HO with a transition era UP bent
The 'fear' of cracked gears has put many P2K locos on eBay at prices far lower than other brand less detailed models. To my advantage. Passing because they might have cracked gears, which is a simple and cheap fix, is IMO foolish. GP60's are too new for me, but I do have a bunch of GP7s. The far more crudely detail Atlas/Rock GP7s go for $100 or so on eBay, the P2K ones are $40 or less. I'll take 2 of the P2Ks, plus buy some Athearn axle gears, and get 2 well detailed locos and have money left over, thank you very much.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Most of my diesel fleet is Proto2000, and yes I have changed a few gears. Way back, LifeLike gave away lots of those replacement gears.
I have about 50 Proto2000 diesels, despite the occasional cracked gear, it is my prefered brand of diesel model.
And like Randy, I have picked up my share of bargains.
In the early days, LifeLike severely over produced these locos. That glut of product, combined with the cracked gear problem, put a lot of these locos in the bargain price catagory.
I am a DC operator, so nearly all my models are the DC versions, but a great many were purchased at prices like Randy describes. Stuff like ABBA sets of ALCO FA's for $120.......
Athearn replacement gears, part #ATH 60024, will fix any of the two axle trucks with split gears.
Sheldon
I have four Proto 2000 GP7/9 locomotives. Only one had cracked gears and it cost less than 10 dollars and 30 minutes to fix.
.
No reason to avoid your GP60.
-Kevin
Living the dream.
If they are the type where the wires go to a small board that plugs in to a larger board with a bunch of diodes - the gears on the other 3 WILL crack. I have a supply of the Athearn gears and I just swap them out when I take the loco apart to install a decoder and clean and lube the gearboxes, and do other detailing like painting the vertical handrails and adding Reading drip strips over the cab windows. And turn the crew figures around so they face the right way for Reading :D
alcofanschdy Thank you for the reply. Maybe I'll pass on this
If that Proto 2000 is a good price, I wouldn't let fear of a cracked axle put you off of a good deal. The replacements won't cost much and all you do is pop off the wheel gear cover and replace them - it's fairly quick and easy.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
And witht he Athearn gears they woon't crack again, at least two of mine that have run up many hours of continuous running pulling heavy trains at club shows have shown no signs of any issues. I do nothing except periodically clean the wheels and redo lubrication with appropriate plastic-compatible oil and grease and they chug on much like their prototypes. One of those had a cracked gear right out of the box, the other was fine but I replaced them anyway so I wouldn;t have to later.
I have GP60's, GP38-2's and other Proto 2000 engines and they all run well. Like others say, don't let that fear hold you up. If you think about it, it can happen to almost any engine out there for an unknown reason.
Come to think of it, I need to go to Evil Bay to see if they have any more GP60 engines available.. Need two more..
Neal
I decided to go for it and got the GP 60 I had my eye on. My LHS said they thought this one came out on a later run when the gear problem was fixed but they do stock the replacement gears and wheelsets if I need them. I have two proto 1000 RS2's that i had to replace the gears on so I know what it is all about. The GP 60 is a beautiful loco and runs well. Got it at a great price too. Life is good.
You are lucky to have a well stocked LHS.
For those that might be interested in pre-installed DCC, I got an ad from Trainworld today. Fox Valley loksound DCC GP-60 $160 for Santa Fe, NS, Southern Pacific, BNSF and a war bonnet Santa Fe B unit for $120. Two different road numbers for each of the A units.
No, you cannot glue nylon/delrin plastics.
I had a P2K GP7 that was stalling erratically. I discovered all for of the axle gears were cracked. I replaced them with athearn axles and it ran just fine. I did have to use a vice to press them on.
Harrison
Homeschooler living In upstate NY a.k.a Northern NY.
Modeling the D&H in 1978.
Route of the famous "Montreal Limited"
My YouTube
I believe Athearn part #60024 is what you want. Easily found on Ebayif a local hobby shop doesn't stock.
Do not think that only the P2K's axel gears will crack. I have Athearn BB locos that I have found to have cracked axel gears.
If I find a P2K loco at a Train Show, I expect the axel gears to be cracked and use that as a price nogatiating point.
Good discussion,
One plus that's not mentioned is that the Athearn replacement gears are better in quality and more duable than the versions produced years back. So they should give you many "scale miles" of trouble-free performance.
I would like to, respectfully, add that it's a good (headache saving) practice to go ahead and check your locomotive's lubrication if you are replacing the gears.
Years back I hastily replaced the gears in one of my P2K units and did nothing else to it. On the track again, it did not run smoothly. After taking it apart, I discovered that there was dried grease in the trucks. The Geep was "new-in-the-box" but, apparently, sat on the vendor's shelf for some years.
I learned my lesson and now take the step of disassembling the trucks. A dampened cotton cloth with 70% alcohol works well. A Microbrush, toothpick, or toothbrush helps to remove gunk between gear teeth. Once cleaned, a tiny drop of Labelle #106 works nicely.
This video (link below,) imho, is EXCELLENT regarding the cleaning of trucks. Worth watching, the narrators are straight-forward and to the point. The powered trucks featured are Athearn, but as we know many of our older-run P2K units use Athearn-cloned mechanisms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YINsBLGM330
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
PC101I have Athearn BB locos that I have found to have cracked axel gears.Sigh
Yep, I've found a few. Mostly SDP40's, FP45's and some SD45's. I think they all came out about the same time.
Mike.
My You Tube
ATLANTIC CENTRAL No, you cannot glue nylon/delrin plastics. Sheldon
So true, even if you could glue a solid joint, the plastic has shrunk and the gears will never mesh properly. It is a very inexpensive and simple repair, just replace the axle/ gear assy. Bottom truck cover come off in a minute, check wheel gauge and reinstall- done! Then enjoy the great running of these engines for many years.
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
I'm with you 100% on the proactive cleaning and lubricating Antonio. Of the twenty plus diesels in my layout, my Proto E7 is my absolute fave. It pulls relentlessly and can run at a snail's pace- all as quiet as can be. Of my half dozen Protos, I've only had one with cracked gears and, as you and others have said, it's a cheap and easy fix. I keep spares on hand though and have tuned my ears to recognize the tell tale clunking sound.
Andrew Roberts
Greenhorn Modeling the B&O
Maryland, USA
Hi Andrew!
Thanks. I've communicated with other P2K owners that have stated similar experiences and sentiments. Just a little proactive maintenance pays off nicely! Like you, my favorite P2K's are the E-units. It sounds funny but I often refer to them as BRICKS! They're heavy and can outpull some of my Athearn 6-axle units. Although I normally don't push them, they can easily hit a scale 90+mph.
I'm grateful to LifeLike for willing to provide E-units in a variety of southeastern roads: ACL, FEC, L&N, RF&P, SAL. (Just wish they had done SCL, but beggars can't always be choosers).
The lead unit here is an ACL E8, but I plan on re-decaling it into SCL. Once done, It will be lightly weathered. The unit behind it is an ACL E6.
My RF&P E8
For DCC Sound modelers, the "Cool Factor" with the E-units is that the dummy B-units have A LOT of space for robust speakers, which can result in crystal clear sound at low volume for a properly installed and baffled system.
Soundrew I'm with you 100% on the proactive cleaning and lubricating Antonio. Of the twenty plus diesels in my layout, my Proto E7 is my absolute fave. It pulls relentlessly and can run at a snail's pace- all as quiet as can be. Of my half dozen Protos, I've only had one with cracked gears and, as you and others have said, it's a cheap and easy fix. I keep spares on hand though and have tuned my ears to recognize the tell tale clunking sound.
Sometimes the crack is visible, sometimes not. If you hear a thumping sound that varies with the speed of the engine, you have at least one cracked gear. If the gear on the axle can be spun with light finger-tip pressure, you have a cracked gear. The replacement part for Geeps (2-axle power trucks) is Athearn #60024.
As others have said, the cracked gear problem is an easy fix. And, yes, the cracked gear is visible to the naked eye. The problem seemed to be that the metal axle was slightly bigger than the opening in the gear and, as a result, split the gear. The problem manifests itself by a thumping and grinding of the wheelset as the faulty loco travels down the track. What you can't see, you can hear.
Rich
Alton Junction
For LL P2K E-unit owners, you'll see the part number and price on this link:
https://www.walthers.com/replacement-geared-diesel-wheelsets-fits-early-proto-2000-r-e6-7-8-9-pkg-3?ref=1
Like the 4-axle version, they're due to be in stock this September. The price is msrp, so it's possible that other online dealers will offer them at a discounted price.
From my understanding, these sets are better in quality than the stock versions that the LL P2K's came factory equipped with.