SouthgateIs there a possibility on your layout for rail to ocean going or great lakes ships? Or barges?(Chips, ores, petroleum products, scrap iron...) Dan Add Quote to your Post
Hi Dan,
What we didn't built into the initial plan is hidden staging so for the present we can't run a train 'off' the layout. Initially we didn't think there would be enough space under the layout for staging, but after we sorted through all the junk that the club had acquired over the years we realized that there is tons of open space so staging is a very real possibility. That would allow us to do a lot more with imaginary destinations.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
BigDaddyYou are Canadian right? I have one word, or 2 letters VO
Hi Henry:
Personally I'm a Wisers guy
If yuo have the space, Walthers Valley Cement has a lot of loads. Limestone, aggregate, and fuel for the kiln coning in and Portland cement and agricultural lime going out. This is the one with added structures on Bootbay Railway Village
Then add Medusa Cement at another location to receive cementhttps://www.walthers.com/medusa-cement-company-kit-9-x-7-x-11-quot-22-5-x-17-5-x-27-5cm?ref=1
The Walthers Icing Platform is good foir the steam era, shown here just after installation
Also the Walthers freight warehouse that I built as REA
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Hi George:
I looked at the Walthers Valley Cement. I found there to be two problems with it. First, it is too big to fit in any of our available industrial spaces if the kit was built as intended. Could be kit bashing fodder though. The second problem is that most of the buildings in the kit are corrugated steel. Here we go again. More corrugated steel buildings. I know it is realistic, but as I said before, having too many corrugated steel structures on the layout would be pretty boring IMHO. I'm trying to follow the spirit of Brakie's suggestion that we start to think outside the box. In this case, it is a corrugated steel box.
As I mentioned earlier, we will do an icing platform. We will also do a couple of freight houses, although the REA logo is a nogo in Canada.
Thanks for the suggestions.
Think industries that use rail cars, local lumber, building supply company, a larger lumber distribution company, think Weyerhaeuser, they had one up here, lots of loaded lumber racks in, a paper recycler gets paper by truck through local pick up and shreds, bails and ships it out, a wood products company like celotex, local loggers trucked in pulp wood, company ground it, steam cooked it, pressed board out, plus an occasional tank car of chemicals in, a larger print company would take boxcars of paper in, may ship books by rail, but may send waste paper back to mill, a large grocery warehouse, A&P, for example took lots of boxcars of products. Don't forget the local feed and farm supply, feed in and some sold farm equipment, so an occasional flat of tractors. Every industry takes loads in, more than than ship out, that's the way it's been since WW 2. But that's still a railroad operation, club or not.
Dave,It's me again with some easy industries that requires little space..
Kroger bakery car loads of flour,sugar and corn starch. The Kroger bakery in Columbus was a long brick building on the N&W..This could be along the backdrop.DPM walls could be used. I can still recall the smell of baked goods especially the bread.
G.P Lloyd Ploymers In plastic pellets..Walthers plastic pellet storage silo could be used with a Pikestuff Tri-star Industries.
Mid States Propane A Walthers Central Gas & Supply can be used.
Williams & Sons Manufacturing Walthers Heritage Furniture could.
How's the membership feel about buildings along the backdrop?
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIEHow's the membership feel about buildings along the backdrop?
Hi again Larry:
Background buildings have been part of the plan from day 1. We have plenty of space for them along the north and west walls. I have a bunch of Walthers kits that are designed as background buildings, and I have several full building kits that could be kitbashed into some pretty large background buildings as well. The buildings are all pretty generic so we could label them for whatever industries we want that will tie in with our other major industrial sites. For example, I have two Atlas Middlesex Manufacturing kits that could be made into an approx. 80" four storey background building, or a 40" eight storey background building, or points in between.
https://www.walthers.com/middlesex-manufacturing-co-kit-15-x-5-1-2-quot-38-1-x-14cm
I'm really looking forward to teaching the gang to kitbash all of this stuff, and maybe even build some of it myself.
Thanks very much for your input!
Cheers!!
The empties from a distribution center would go to a yard where off line cars would be sent away while on line cars can be redisributed to on line industries as needed. Yard masters were known to hoard cars they knew would be in demand in a short time. So that empty box routing can be to a yard so it can be cleaned if needed and the reciever paperwork finished and then routed to an industry when the next local drops off the next train of cars to be switched
ndbprr The empties from a distribution center would go to a yard where off line cars would be sent away while on line cars can be redisributed to on line industries as needed. Yard masters were known to hoard cars they knew would be in demand in a short time. So that empty box routing can be to a yard so it can be cleaned if needed and the reciever paperwork finished and then routed to an industry when the next local drops off the next train of cars to be switched
A freight agent can elect to load a foreign road car if the car routing is toward the home road. Exception to the rule Railbox,IPD boxcar or any lease car can be loaded "Next Road,Any Road".
Empty home road cars are assign to various terminals to ensure there is enough empties on hand.
Exception to the rule home and foreign road cars assign to pool service must be return to that pool.
When I worked on the PRR there was a Fisher Body and a Westinghouse pool of boxcars..
hon30critterI looked at the Walthers Valley Cement. ... it is too big to fit in any of our available industrial spaces
I agree that is is a large kit; it the quarry, and rock crusher dominate the end of the pennsula on the Boothbay layout. IN our case it was 'a given' in that we are modeling Maine coast railroading and the real plant is in Thomston just up the Rockland Branch tracks from us.
That being said, the Medusa Cement silos do have a much more modest footprint. On my layout, I combined it with a Faller ready mix plant to make it a more interesting scene
https://www.walthers.com/cement-works-kit-8-1-8-x-3-1-2-x-8-7-8-quot-20-7-x-9-x-22-5cm
The Walthers Red Wing Milling kit is a fairly typical all concrete building that asks to be kitbashed. Centennial Mills is a 'thin profile' version of the same plant.
https://www.walthers.com/red-wing-milling-co-kit-8-x-11-x-10-3-8-quot-20-3-x-28-x-26-4cm
https://www.walthers.com/centennial-mills-background-building-kit-10-3-16-x-1-15-16-x-8-7-16-quot-25-4-x-4-8-x-21cm
On my layout, I found Centennial includes a back wall, so I kitbashed it to make it wider and notched back to accomodate some storage bins. It is the center of this image. I modeled it as a bakery
Low relief Heritage Furniture is to the left of the bakery, and it's full size companion Hardwood Furniture are more fancy factory buildingshttps://www.walthers.com/heritage-furniture-background-building-kit-back-wall-11-3-8-x-4-3-4-x-8-15-16-quot-28-4-x-11-8-x-22-3cm
https://www.walthers.com/hardwood-furniture-company-kit-11-7-8-x-10-5-8-x-8-7-8-quot-23-5-x-29-5-x-22-5cm
I have not built one, but the City Classics Smallman Street Warehouse is a typical brick structure and is a good candidate for kitbashing. They offer a 2 story addition and printed acetate windows.https://www.walthers.com/smallman-street-warehouse-kit-8-1-2-x-6-x-6-quot-21-6-x-15-2-x-15-2cm
https://www.walthers.com/two-story-add-on-kit-for-smallman-street-warehouse-195-103-sold-separately
https://www.walthers.com/factory-windows-pkg-10-for-195-103-smallman-street-warehouse-sold-separately?ref=1
George:
Thanks for all the other suggestions and the pictures.
I almost forgot about this one. Atlas Middlesex Manufacturing is another old time brick factory. I just finished kitbashing it into a paint factory.
Just a quick update to let you know where the process sits right now. I went through the Walthers catalogue and printed off about 25 various industries. I have grouped related industries together so we can operate between them. My next step is to do a spread sheet showing what types of loads each of the industries would ship and receive. The excellent suggestions that have been offered in this thread have really opened my eyes to the possibilities.
The next step will be to sit down with the club members and have a discussion about which scenarios they are interested in. We have already had a few discussions about what industries they wanted but the were very general. We have not discussed detailed operations. Again, the advice that you have offered will lend some real depth to the negotiations.
Then I will have to spend some time figuring out how to fit the industries into the layout. Some of the kits like the New River Mine will fit quite nicely, but others like Mountain Lumber will have to be kitbashed. Actually, I have looked at the Mountain Lumber kit and my initial response is to scratch build the main building at about 2/3rds the size of the one in the kit, and then use all the detail bits and out buildings to finish the scene. Cutting the building down would be difficult because of the placements of the doors and windows on the front and back of the building. By reducing the footprint of the main building we will be able to run a siding or two up beside it. If the kit is built full size there won't be any room for tracks where we want to locate it.
New River Mine:
https://www.walthers.com/new-river-mining-company-kit-main-building-12-1-2-x-9-x-9-3-8-quot-31-2-x-22-5-x-23-2cm
Incidently, the mine may not be mining coal. There isn't a whole lot of coal in Ontario. It would be more suitable as a nickel mine ala Sudbury. We could even do the Big Nickel Monument:
http://www.orwelltoday.com/nickelstatue.jpg
Mountain Lumber:
https://www.walthers.com/mountain-lumber-company-sawmill-kit
There are too many other kits to discuss here, but I will let you know what ones we choose.
Just so you are aware, we are not likely going to be buying too many of the more expensive craftsman kits. We set a budget for all the scenery costs and spending $100 - $200 per kit would leave much of the layout sitting empty!
So much for the "quick" update.
G PaineI almost forgot about this one. Atlas Middlesex Manufacturing is another old time brick factory. I just finished kitbashing it into a paint factory.
That is a great kitbash! I really like the depth that you gave the front of the building.
I have two of the Middlesex Manufacturing kits which I will offer to the club. I had envisaged using them to create a large background building to fill some of the 50 or so feet of wall space that needs attention.
Thanks,
Manufacturers are usually large and difficult to model.. i.e. there's no such thing as a small steel mill or a small auto plant.. but there are plenty of small receivers and middlemen type operations that don't take as much space... like a steel distributor. They tend to receive different products in different cars and you don't need a large manufacturing complex. A few tracks.. maybe an overhead crane..an unloading ramp and dock and a company office. Same with a lumber yard.. you don't need the sawmill.. just the shipping a nd receiving infrastructure. I'm modelling a newspaper.. paper in via boxcars.. new presses in via flatcar.. and ink in by tank car.
Here's a few ideas,
A glass plant, makes bottles, ships bottles to brewery.
Wood pellet plant, you could do truck in rail out OR do trucks offload woodchuck to hoppers OR wood mill makes chips ship chips in hoppers, hoppers deliver to wood pellet plant, wood pellet plant ships unit trains of covered hoppers to power plant (can be modeled). With that you get at least three industries, have a lumber yard and paper mill theres five, have a paper goods maker (cardboard?) There's six, a packaging maker gets lumber and card board, crates, pallets, and boxes out, that's seven, have companies to receive said package makerso goods and package their product in it, there's eight or more!
Steve
If everything seems under control, you're not going fast enough!
UlrichManufacturers are usually large and difficult to model.. i.e. there's no such thing as a small steel mill or a small auto plant..
A lot of heavy manufacturing like (say) Whirlpool,GE ,Westinghouse,mini steel mills,Fisher body,coke plants can be modeled along the backdrop or as a hidden industry. You see the the gate behind a small hill or modeled industries and maybe the stacks peeking over the foreground industries.
A general remark ...
Dave, this thread turned out to be a great one. Thanks for starting it.
Kudos to Larry, George, and ALL others who participated...
GARRY
HEARTLAND DIVISION, CB&Q RR
EVERYWHERE LOST; WE HUSTLE OUR CABOOSE FOR YOU
Ulrichthere are plenty of small receivers and middlemen type operations that don't take as much space... like a steel distributor. They tend to receive different products in different cars and you don't need a large manufacturing complex. A few tracks.. maybe an overhead crane..an unloading ramp and dock and a company office. Same with a lumber yard.. you don't need the sawmill.. just the shipping a nd receiving infrastructure.
Hi Ulrich:
You make a very good point, especially where space is limited. The Layout Committee is meeting on Monday night and I will include your suggestions in the discussion.
I do think that there should be a few larger industrial buildings on our layout where space permits. For example, if we decide to model the New River Mine, there is more than enough space to accommodate the entire kit in the area where it would best be located.
Heartland Division CB&QA general remark ... Dave, this thread turned out to be a great one. Thanks for starting it. Kudos to Larry, George, and ALL others who participated...
Thanks Garry!
I totally agree that the thread has generated some great ideas, particularly in terms of defining the types of loads both in and out. I hope that I can use the suggestions to get the club to focus on how to model and operate a variety of industries. As I said before, up until now the discussion at the club has been very general, i.e. vague.
We held a Layout Committee meeting on Monday night. The first topic of discussion was what structures to put on the layout. The committee decided to defer those decisions until the mainline is operating successfully.
Everyone on the committee complained of being overwhelmed by all the suggestions that I had made (based mostly on your recommendations so it is all your fault!). The fact is that the President had taken it upon himself to show everybody all the possible structures that we might use on the layout before I had finished sorting out the list. So, I will have to put all of your sage advice on the back burner for now. In the interim, if you have any pictures to share showing what you have done with various kits I would be most interested. George's rendition of the Atlas Middlesex Manufacturing kit is the sort of inspiration that I am looking for (scroll up a few posts to see it).
Thanks again for all your ideas!
I managed to convince the Layout Committee to let me order a few kits that are either discontinued and/or are on sale for very good prices. This is what I ordered:
Northern Light & Power Power Station #933-3021
Reliable Storage #933-3014
Golden Valley Canning #933-3018
American Hardware Supply #933-3097
Central Valley 200' truss bridge #210-1901
The structures will likely be renamed. American Hardware Supply will probably be bashed into a background building.