MB Klein is the showroom and retail store for Modeltrainstuff.com. I stopped in there today. They occupy a long rectangular building. They occupy the left 2/3 and an unrelated business has the other 1/3
Used to be you entered on the very left. That room was rolling stock, loco's, electronics, Walthers structures, track, N-scale. The middle room was O and G scale and the room the right was paint, scenicking, more kits, an HO layout, Chooch type stuff.
The mailorder/customer service has taken over the middle and left rooms and everything else is smushed into the right room.
I understand that they have to go where the money is, but as I customer I like to shop and browse. I often see something to buy that I didn't know I needed when I walked in the store. In the big scheme of things I guess that doesn't count for much. Mainline Hobbies is about 150% further away from me but I will be going there instead.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
I can understand your feelings, Henry. I prefer going to an LHS in person so that I can view and touch what I'm buying, as well as getting to know the proprietor. While MB Klein wouldn't be the ideal drive for me (3+ hours), they are probably one of the best online establishments at presenting what they have and how many they have of it in stock - i.e. live inventory. Still not quite as nice as in person...BUT...the prices generally make up for it, for me.
Moseying around an LHS and looking through the inventory is still the best though.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I don't know anything about their store since I live in the center of the country, but I sure like there web site. One of the best at showing what they have. I seem to often end up there ordering things. They've had stock on things I wanted the nobody else had.
I too like browsing my local hobby shop and purchasing there, but I find I almost always leave with my list unfulfilled and end up ordering the whole list on the internet.
Unless something has changed, they were in the process of a remodel and had to compress everything.
It doesn't make sense that they'd devote a third of the showroom to off-site business. The showroom is only half the first floor as-is.
Well, I have dealt with MB Kleins for many, many years. First as a kid growing up near Baltimore and later as an adult. As I have traveled the country I always found it to be one of the best places to shop. I haven't been to the new location in person but have placed the majority of my model train orders through them.
Since retiring and moving from Scum City (Houston) where there WERE several good shops and being I live very far from the closest (and lame) hobby shop the majority of what I buy comes through the mail from Kleins. They are very efficient and I love the living inventory system. I REALLY HATE backorders and excuses. With them I don't have to worry about not getting my stuff. Even better is they beat any prices I've seen at other sources like the Walthers Flyer and other places like Trainworld and others.
For me it's a win-win situation and I'm sure glad they are there and do business the way they do.
I agree that sometimes you really want to touch and fondle things, especially new items or something from a new company, but sometimes it just isn't possible.
My 2¢,
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
NittanyLionUnless something has changed, they were in the process of a remodel and had to compress everything.
From what I have heard, BigDaddy's assessment of the situation is correct. I was told that they have computer stations set up and if you want something they have, you get the item number off the computer and they go into the back and get it. They had this before, but I think it has been expanded and the amount of items out on the shelf for "browsing" have been reduced.
I think the brick and mortar shops just have a hard time competing with the online stores in terms of selection, not necessarily price.
Its tough to hold enough inventory to please everyone...every roadname, every era, and every manufacturer.
- Douglas
maxman NittanyLion Unless something has changed, they were in the process of a remodel and had to compress everything. From what I have heard, BigDaddy's assessment of the situation is correct. I was told that they have computer stations set up and if you want something they have, you get the item number off the computer and they go into the back and get it. They had this before, but I think it has been expanded and the amount of items out on the shelf for "browsing" have been reduced.
NittanyLion Unless something has changed, they were in the process of a remodel and had to compress everything.
Fair enough. Most of my trips up there are to gather specific items, usually in sequence with a Timonium show, so browsing (for me) isn't common.
I was at the MB Klein store over the weekend. One employee told me that they will only be using one section of the old store as the retail store. Basically one third the size of the old store. I was also told that they need the space for the warehouse. They just don't have the room for everything. They still have the kiosk to purchase items that are not on display. This way you can see the item before you purchase it. I usually print out a list of what I want at home and then take it to the store.
If they can stock even more items, that's great.
I forgot to mention, one of the employees told me that the walk in retail customer was only 7% of their business.
Hence the move to more warehouse room. Sadly, model rail shops are not the only businesses having to go this route.
Mike
DoughlessA hobby shop near me had a brand new Athearn modern 60 foot hi-cube boxcar, CSX repaint patched and faded with conspicuity stripes, for $35. Proprietor said he just got them in. Price was good and likely not much higher than an online store.
Another thing a single car order can cost more then buying one at the LHS due to the added postage. OTOH the nearest shop to me is a 52 mile round trip with full MSRP now,add gas and lunch it costs me more. Lunch or a snack is needed to maintain my sugar level so it won't drop.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I really don;t think there's any 'sadly' about it when it comes to Klein. Unlike so many, they recognized the coming Internet and embraced it rather than dismissing it and thus instead of being "yet another hobby shop closing down" they are thriving. I have yet to go in person, last time I was at the Timonium train show I ended up being at the show until closing which puts it past closing at Klein's, but I continue to order a large percentage of my stuff from them. Sometimes they have better prices even than eBay sellers.
Tom, you must be moving closer to me, or else you drive a lot faster than I do (not likely LOL ). It's an hour and a half for me to get down there, and nearly 6 hours to get out to just above Franklin, so if it only takes you 3 hours to get to Timonium...
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I understand that they have to go where the money is, but as I customer I like to shop and browse. I often see something to buy that I didn't know I needed when I walked in the store. In the big scheme of things I guess that doesn't count for much. Mainline Hobbies is about 150% further away from me but I will be going there instead. Henry
I know it's nice to have a place to browse but I don't think your not doing business with MBK is going to hurt them. There are plenty like myself that find MBK to have excellent service and great prices and an easy way to see and buy online.
When I am intown I do visit them and yes, sometimes they have items in the store that are sold out online and I usually pick them up, and sometimes I still look things up on their computer and have to have a guy bring it out.
In general, I see a lot of complaining here that sort of fits the category of "the good old days are going away" and I'm not happy about it.
Sure, I'm old enough to miss many things about 25-30+ years ago, but times, they are a changing, and already for many of us, a brick and mortar hobby shop is a thing of the past. I've already moved on - I don't complain and wring my hands over the lack of the hobby shop - probably 2/3rds of the many many I have darkened the door of were no good to me anyway (and I've visted more than I can count); so that "nostalgia" is something I don't really feel.
People just need to come to terms with changes gracefully and move on - the sooner we all do, the happier we'll be and the happier the people around us will be.
NittanyLion Unless something has changed, they were in the process of a remodel and had to compress everything. It doesn't make sense that they'd devote a third of the showroom to off-site business. The showroom is only half the first floor as-is.
MBK's re-model has already been discussed on a couple other forums weeks ago, and it was explained the online business had expanded to the point they needed the space, so they took over 2/3rds of the show room floor to expand the warehouse.
Well, 1/3rd of the show room was Lionell stuff and of no interest to me, and the back room scenry etc. I'll still go there to see if there is any self stock I can pick up thats sold out and browse when I'm in town.
I really don;t think there's any 'sadly' about it when it comes to Klein. Unlike so many, they recognized the coming Internet and embraced it rather than dismissing it and thus instead of being "yet another hobby shop closing down" they are thriving. -Randy
-Randy
You said it better than I could have.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
I'm with Randy and Jim on this issue. Forums like this one and all the other online content like youtube reviews and online magazines have far surpassed whatever added value was provided by even the best of the LHS's.
I can't understand why anyone would prefer the typical LHS over Modeltrainstuff.com or the mall over amazon. When it comes to shopping for MR stuff, these are the good old days.
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
I don't see the big deal about ordering stuff from an online store. It's just the way things are. You browse, add stuff to your cart, push a few buttons, and two days later goodies show up on your front porch. What's not to like about that?
And regarding MBKlein Modeltrainstuff, they are pretty close to the top of the A List of online merchants.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
I've already moved on - I don't complain and wring my hands over the lack of the hobby shop - probably 2/3rds of the many many I have darkened the door of were no good to me anyway (and I've visted more than I can count); so that "nostalgia" is something I don't really feel.
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Jim,You just summed up the root cause of the demise of the LHS and probably the future demise of train shows.
Let's not fool our selves folks on line shopping is far easier then driving to a hobby shop or train show and costs far less if one orders enough to help cover shipping..
IMHO the day of the walk in customer is fading as the empty malls and closed mom and pop businesses shows.
It is the social aspect we are loosing. Half of the enjoyment of going to lhs or show is the meeting of new friends and talking with old ones. It the same with going to the mall with friends. You go to socialize while doing a mutual activity and interest.
A pessimist sees a dark tunnel
An optimist sees the light at the end of the tunnel
A realist sees a frieght train
An engineer sees three idiots standing on the tracks stairing blankly in space
carl425 I'm with Randy and Jim on this issue. Forums like this one and all the other online content like youtube reviews and online magazines have far surpassed whatever added value was provided by even the best of the LHS's. I can't understand why anyone would prefer the typical LHS over Modeltrainstuff.com or the mall over amazon. When it comes to shopping for MR stuff, these are the good old days.
A buyer has to be fairly knowledgeable of the item in order for the internet store to be more convenient.....or the buyer doesn't care much about what they're buying.
Returning items via internet sales invovles as much work as selling an item on ebay. It has to be (re)packed and shipped. Unless the item is defective, buyer pays shipping.
NVSRRIt is the social aspect we are loosing. Half of the enjoyment of going to lhs or show is the meeting of new friends and talking with old ones.
I agree with NVSRR about the social part being gone. Many of us don't have a large club (or any club) close by or modeling friends to visit so the FLHS was our "Cheers". Hanging with like-minded folks on Saturday was always a special event to look forward to after a grueling week at work. I miss the usually enjoyable talks with fellow modelers while leaning on the counter and picking up my weekly "fix" of supplies. For those of us without that enjoyment we have to find that "thrill" here in the posts and other sites.
I miss being able to touch and see new products without having to buy them blindly. Most mail order shops do have decent return policies but that's a hassle to me. One-on-one time with something beats that. With the loss of so many shops it's harder to do it this way and for many of us far removed from the closest shop impractical.
As several wise posters have stated.............this is the new age of model buying. Like it or not this is basically how it is and how it shall be. Like ugly plastic automobiles, throw away electronics and RTR rolling stock..........this is our new lot. It really isn't bad.....just different. I'm OK with it and find it to be a lot less hassle thanks to folks like Kleins.
I use modeltrainstuff for much of my online buying (it would be more, but they dropped S scale). I really like their online inventory and find their site easy to navigate and order from. The only 2 well stocked train hobby shops near me are focused on 3 rail O gauge.
OTOH, I like the train shows because I get to see the actual stuff - I enjoy looking even at the stuff I don't buy. And train shows are where I find a lot of old "new" stuff usually at pretty good prices. Plus most of them have a display layout - sometimes several.
Sure the well stocked hobby shop is a joy to browse, but there aren't many left.
Paul
BRAKIEJim,You just summed up the root cause of the demise of the LHS and probably the future demise of train shows.
It's hard to say if train shows are endangered. Timonium continues to be busy and well attended. Sure there are the odd "dud" shows but for me it's still very worth going to for treasure hunting especially and as my wife would say, it's a trip out for an activity for us. She steers me around to all the tables and makes sure I don't miss anything and we get a taco salad and make a day of it.
NVSRR It is the social aspect we are loosing. Half of the enjoyment of going to lhs or show is the meeting of new friends and talking with old ones. It the same with going to the mall with friends. You go to socialize while doing a mutual activity and interest.
Well, lets look at that social aspect. Thats a subjective thing. I've noticed for every "social hangout" hobby shop, I've seen 10 others that had nothing of interest to me, full or near full MSRP prices, an unpleasant place to linger and a shop owner who looked like he hated his life.
The last "social hangout" hobby shop I used to go to in upstate NY, the owner was nice to the big spenders and they were all a big "clutch" but if you weren't in that clique or not a big spender, then you were chopped liver and it was an uncomfortable place to browse in. Good riddence.
Ok, some shops were a social hang out and that social hangout is disappearing. There are other means for people to get social fulfillment - this forum is one very obvious outlet - what with all the frivolous topics that are only tenuously related to trains. There are clubs and round robin groups too.
ROBERT PETRICK I don't see the big deal about ordering stuff from an online store. It's just the way things are. You browse, add stuff to your cart, push a few buttons, and two days later goodies show up on your front porch. What's not to like about that? And regarding MBKlein Modeltrainstuff, they are pretty close to the top of the A List of online merchants. Robert
Apparently the 20-something crowd doesn't do much cooking these days. They order their meals out. I used to scoff at the characters of Big Bang Theory all gathering around to eat takeout each night, but that's what the younger set does.
Times have changed. Our youngest work-eligible people don't do dishes if they can help it, and never enter grocery stores. Are those retail outlets numbered in days as well? Amazon has resorted to a fleet of drones to deliver 'stuff'. If you can order in food and have 'stuff' delivered by drones, who needs a car? Oh, and almost none of them want a car as well; that industry is about to change, and waste zillions on electric car research and production. Don't get me started on the laugh/snorting flying car debacle.
The savvy entrepreneur pays attention to her market. She watches it for trends, and she keeps an eye on the troubles and advances of her competition. With reasonable intelligence working for her, she's likely to come out ahead. This is about the worst that MB Klien can be accused of doing.
To move a little left of topic, Most of the big department stores are going the same way.
What I envision is (in a place like the new Penn Station [when or if] or perhaps Washington Union, or even the occulus on NYCT) a virtual department store. 20-100 kiosks manned by sales peeps but mostly with large monitors showing their goods, the specifics and whatever. They can show 100s or 1000s of products on the monitor, and they can order for home delivery right there in the kiosk, or be given a ticket that they can use to order from home. (The ticket gives the showroom staff his cut of the sale). Selling ladies dresses, no problem, the showroom sales lade can take mesaurmetns and help with the on line order.
Whatever you sell, you can sell from a kiosk.
Customers will get a better look-see from the kiosk than from the website, and may even get a special price too.
If the times is moving left so do the peeps who live on sales.
Mrick and mortor bye bye...
Now lets see you order dinner from your computer.
See, you can even do that at Applebees or Paneras.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I'm sorry to have contributed to the demise of social interaction in the marketplace (and possibly causing stoves and ranges to fade into obscurity), but I live in one of those big square states out west and the nearest LHS is 100 miles away (across the street from the nearest Home Depot, where I've also ordered stuff online (pretty big stuff, too)). The second nearest LHS is 250 miles away.
And I'm a little too old, too fat, and too bald to blend in with the twenty-somethings. Dang!
The downfall of modern civilization!
Sears_A by Edmund, on Flickr
"Our Trade Reaches Around The World!"
Cheers, Ed
Totally agree. Great prices, easy to order, reasonably shipping rates and great service. If an item arrives damaged or broken, they send a return label to make it easy to return and no cost to the customer. It's nearly impossible to beat MBK.
There are effectively 2 LHS around here. One is downtown and not convenient to get to, adn has a limited selection. The other is an hour and a half away and has a large selection but that's mainly because they do almost no railroad business. Looking for Athearn BB kits? They have'em. I used to go there if I needed somethign right away, like a pack of couplers or something, but never bought very much as it was all full retail, no discount at all. I know some people that work there so there was some conversation since they were almost never busy, but there was no regular gathering of modelers for social time. There are several clubs within the same radius, as well as multiple train shows, including the Timonium shows. Social aspects fo the hobby? I was never nuch of a social person anyway. I am and have always been somewhat shy and quiet and definitely not the one o strike up a conversation with others, even about favored topics or shared interests. I'll respond if someone else initiates, I don't run and hide. So while maybe I've missed out on something, I don't really realize it.
Ordering online is something I was an early adopter of. There's very little I need to actually hold in my hands before deciding - there are enough pictures of new products that you can see them from any angle, and if it looks good, fits my era, and the price is right, I don't see what mroe I could do by going to a store and picking it up first. That means finding a good online store that has pictures of the items. I rarely if ever buy anything with no picture (NEVER on eBay) or where the only picture is of the box it comes in, or specifically int eh case of model railraod stuff, a picture of the prototype, not of the actual model. So yeah, I need to SEE what I am buying, but I don't necessarily need to touch it.
rrinkerOrdering online is something I was an early adopter of.
Same here.
I built nearly my entire (second or third?) layout from the five-page ads in MR from Standard Hobby Supply back in 1982 or so. Sometimes Walthers. Sometimes TrainWorld.
Back then it was a phone call, today it is a mouse click.
Very rarely have I had damaged or incorrectly shipped items.
Ed
riogrande5761There are other means for people to get social fulfillment - this forum is one very obvious outlet
...and the forum has the added benefit of not allowing me to punch someone in the mouth if I get offended.