Another vote for English's Model Railroad shop in Williamsport PA (north central Pennsylvania; very close to north-south US 15 (now I-99) and about 35 minutes from east-west I-80). I stop in a few times a year, while en route elsewhere. The amount of material out on open shelves is quite substantial (more than Klein's, Strasburg, Gilbert's, Trainland and others I've seen in the region). Helpful staff; last time I was there I had a question about refitting an older Bowser product, and the clerk at the checkout sent me to Mr. English's office to talk with him about it. As noted above, it's the retail side of Toy Train Heaven mail order and Bowser manufacturing. Check hours and location on their website.
rrinker Tom, you must be moving closer to me, or else you drive a lot faster than I do (not likely LOL ). It's an hour and a half for me to get down there, and nearly 6 hours to get out to just above Franklin, so if it only takes you 3 hours to get to Timonium... --Randy
Randy,
I moved to western PA about 2-1/2 years ago - about an hour W of Altoona. I checked Google. It's more like a 3-1/2 hr drive to MB Klein/Timonium for me. If I still lived in OH it would be 2 hrs longer than that.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
I think LHS's we all knew and loved will someday end up being "Tourist Attractions" of days gone.
PRR8259Those wanting a better store to browse through should seriously consider making the drive to English's Model RR Supply in Montoursville, PA. T
That would be a 7 hour round trip but I've wasted 7 hours in worse ways. It is on the way to the Finger Lakes and I'd like to see the vintage car race in Watkins Glen. Watkins Glen has a series of waterfalls and it ought to be on all your bucket lists.
One could study the Walthers catalog, but with so many things listed as out of stock, you might think those products don't exist. It's nice to see them hanging on a rack and it's even better to see stuff you didn't know was available, that you can use on your layout.
Randy could have been describing my personality. I've been to the new Pro Custom Hobbies in Sykesville MD. It used to be in Baltimore. There were 3 of us, the guy behind the counter, a customer pushing 80 and myself. Turns out we all knew some people from Sevena Park Model RR club. The old guy offered some very good advice for my layout build.
If the store were closer and I was on the other side of 70, I could see it being a routice social stop.
BRAKIEAnd the same can be said about CSX since a lot of their customers shifted to NS and truckers...
Now there's an interesting story. An activist investor twisted the arms of CSX to bring in Hunter Harrison from CP. When he left CP he forfeited, depending on where you read it $70-100 mil of pension benefits and CSX paind that and gave him 1% of the company. And that's for a guy who is not in good health.
He denied being anti-customer but I see they are being sued by a customer.
back to the current topic
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
If I had unlimited money and a desire to start a business, model railroading is the LAST industry I'd enter.Can't please these old b*stards at all.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
riogrande5761My wife and I have continued to shop at Sears, Kmart and other department stores so yeah, it's a little sad to see them all closing down.
I agree with you there, Rio Grande, and speaking of adapting to "new" technologies, I recall in the late '70s the Sears store at our local mall had a catalog ordering center where several kiosks were set up with red, dial-less, telephones connected directly to Chicago. Just like at Klein's, if you didn't see what you needed in the store— pick up the phone, place your order and you could have it delivered to home for the shipping fee or sent to the store (any Sears store IIRC) for free.
Sometimes what we perceive as NEW is really an old idea simply rehashed and made to seem new.
I don't think we really drifted too far off course on this thread... this time anyway.
Regards, Ed
riogrande5761And the CEO of Sears may not have been able to prevent the fall of Sears, but he sure has accelerated it's demise from what I've read.
And the same can be said about CSX since a lot of their customers shifted to NS and truckers...
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
gmpullman https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_history The "Fall Of Civilization" was a bit of "tongue-in-cheek" commentary
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_history
The "Fall Of Civilization" was a bit of "tongue-in-cheek" commentary
Pretty much no other way to take it but I was naughty and had to comment anyway.
[quote], usually predicted when new technologies, such as the steam boat, or electricity or the printing press come along before the masses are generally ready to accept the concepts of such conveniences.
My only point in using the example of the Sears catalog was their pioneering effort
I have no interest in the goings-on of the CEO of Sears. Thanks, Ed
Thanks, Ed
Me neither but i read the news and as long as we are continuing the usual pracitice here of veering quickly off topic, I'm just doing my part to participate in that regard! Don't shoot the messenger!
And the CEO of Sears may not have been able to prevent the fall of Sears, but he sure has accelerated it's demise from what I've read.
I sort of have one foot in the old ph@rt category and the other in the new hi-tech world; my foot in the former waxes a bit nostaglic. My wife and I have continued to shop at Sears, Kmart and other department stores so yeah, it's a little sad to see them all closing down. But since we also do a lot of online shopping, at least we've adapted and will hopefully survive until the next tech revolution and then maybe we'll be like half the people here and have a hard time keeping quiet! :p
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761Do you define "modern" as 117 years ago?
The "Fall Of Civilization" was a bit of "tongue-in-cheek" commentary, usually predicted when new technologies, such as the steam boat, or electricity or the printing press come along before the masses are generally ready to accept the concepts of such conveniences.
My only point in using the example of the Sears catalog was their pioneering effort in the convenience of "ordering by [choose preference here, telegraph; letter; telephone; telex; internet] and having your merchandise delivered to your door, or the nearest team track.
Sing the Wells Fargo Wagon song from the Music Man...
I have no interest in the goings-on of the CEO of Sears.
Those wanting a better store to browse through should seriously consider making the drive to English's Model RR Supply in Montoursville, PA. The retail store has moved into what was once part of the Bowser factory, so space is not a concern. They have a very nice inventory and helpful staff. They do have a large mail order operation, but the retail store customers are able to browse the same inventory as the mail order pickers pick from. There are also specific areas of the store that are off limits to internet/mail order picking, as those new(er) products are reserved for walk-in retail customers only. That is specifically to protect the regular customers, so that they do not miss out on new releases.
It's a really nice train store, larger than any of the ones at or near Strasburg, PA, ever was.
Many folks come from north of the US border to shop there, as they are only several minutes east of US 15, a major north-south truck route in PA and NY.
John
riogrande5761 gmpullman The downfall of modern civilization! Sears_A by Edmund, on Flickr "Our Trade Reaches Around The World!" Cheers, Ed
gmpullman The downfall of modern civilization! Sears_A by Edmund, on Flickr "Our Trade Reaches Around The World!" Cheers, Ed
The downfall of modern civilization!
Sears_A by Edmund, on Flickr
"Our Trade Reaches Around The World!"
Cheers, Ed
Eye Candy from 1900!!!
riogrande5761Lets see, a forum full of grumpy old men? Nah.... that wouldn't happen would it? Rough neighborhood these train forums!
Mike
carl425 riogrande5761 There are other means for people to get social fulfillment - this forum is one very obvious outlet ...and the forum has the added benefit of not allowing me to punch someone in the mouth if I get offended.
riogrande5761 There are other means for people to get social fulfillment - this forum is one very obvious outlet
...and the forum has the added benefit of not allowing me to punch someone in the mouth if I get offended.
Lets see, a forum full of grumpy old men? Nah.... that wouldn't happen would it? Rough neighborhood these train forums!
Water Level Route Hence the move to more warehouse room. Sadly, model rail shops are not the only businesses having to go this route.
Hence the move to more warehouse room. Sadly, model rail shops are not the only businesses having to go this route.
Do you define "modern" as 117 years ago? As for the fall of Sears, the current CEO is a recluse who has totally missmanaged Sears and failed to adapt it to modern commerce methods.
And vice versa the other way around.
LINK to SNSR Blog
riogrande5761There are other means for people to get social fulfillment - this forum is one very obvious outlet
I have the right to remain silent. By posting here I have given up that right and accept that anything I say can and will be used as evidence to critique me.
rrinkerOrdering online is something I was an early adopter of.
Same here.
I built nearly my entire (second or third?) layout from the five-page ads in MR from Standard Hobby Supply back in 1982 or so. Sometimes Walthers. Sometimes TrainWorld.
Back then it was a phone call, today it is a mouse click.
Very rarely have I had damaged or incorrectly shipped items.
Ed
There are effectively 2 LHS around here. One is downtown and not convenient to get to, adn has a limited selection. The other is an hour and a half away and has a large selection but that's mainly because they do almost no railroad business. Looking for Athearn BB kits? They have'em. I used to go there if I needed somethign right away, like a pack of couplers or something, but never bought very much as it was all full retail, no discount at all. I know some people that work there so there was some conversation since they were almost never busy, but there was no regular gathering of modelers for social time. There are several clubs within the same radius, as well as multiple train shows, including the Timonium shows. Social aspects fo the hobby? I was never nuch of a social person anyway. I am and have always been somewhat shy and quiet and definitely not the one o strike up a conversation with others, even about favored topics or shared interests. I'll respond if someone else initiates, I don't run and hide. So while maybe I've missed out on something, I don't really realize it.
Ordering online is something I was an early adopter of. There's very little I need to actually hold in my hands before deciding - there are enough pictures of new products that you can see them from any angle, and if it looks good, fits my era, and the price is right, I don't see what mroe I could do by going to a store and picking it up first. That means finding a good online store that has pictures of the items. I rarely if ever buy anything with no picture (NEVER on eBay) or where the only picture is of the box it comes in, or specifically int eh case of model railraod stuff, a picture of the prototype, not of the actual model. So yeah, I need to SEE what I am buying, but I don't necessarily need to touch it.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ROBERT PETRICK I don't see the big deal about ordering stuff from an online store. It's just the way things are. You browse, add stuff to your cart, push a few buttons, and two days later goodies show up on your front porch. What's not to like about that? And regarding MBKlein Modeltrainstuff, they are pretty close to the top of the A List of online merchants. Robert
I don't see the big deal about ordering stuff from an online store. It's just the way things are. You browse, add stuff to your cart, push a few buttons, and two days later goodies show up on your front porch. What's not to like about that?
And regarding MBKlein Modeltrainstuff, they are pretty close to the top of the A List of online merchants.
Robert
Totally agree. Great prices, easy to order, reasonably shipping rates and great service. If an item arrives damaged or broken, they send a return label to make it easy to return and no cost to the customer. It's nearly impossible to beat MBK.
I'm sorry to have contributed to the demise of social interaction in the marketplace (and possibly causing stoves and ranges to fade into obscurity), but I live in one of those big square states out west and the nearest LHS is 100 miles away (across the street from the nearest Home Depot, where I've also ordered stuff online (pretty big stuff, too)). The second nearest LHS is 250 miles away.
And I'm a little too old, too fat, and too bald to blend in with the twenty-somethings. Dang!
To move a little left of topic, Most of the big department stores are going the same way.
What I envision is (in a place like the new Penn Station [when or if] or perhaps Washington Union, or even the occulus on NYCT) a virtual department store. 20-100 kiosks manned by sales peeps but mostly with large monitors showing their goods, the specifics and whatever. They can show 100s or 1000s of products on the monitor, and they can order for home delivery right there in the kiosk, or be given a ticket that they can use to order from home. (The ticket gives the showroom staff his cut of the sale). Selling ladies dresses, no problem, the showroom sales lade can take mesaurmetns and help with the on line order.
Whatever you sell, you can sell from a kiosk.
Customers will get a better look-see from the kiosk than from the website, and may even get a special price too.
If the times is moving left so do the peeps who live on sales.
Mrick and mortor bye bye...
Now lets see you order dinner from your computer.
See, you can even do that at Applebees or Paneras.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Apparently the 20-something crowd doesn't do much cooking these days. They order their meals out. I used to scoff at the characters of Big Bang Theory all gathering around to eat takeout each night, but that's what the younger set does.
Times have changed. Our youngest work-eligible people don't do dishes if they can help it, and never enter grocery stores. Are those retail outlets numbered in days as well? Amazon has resorted to a fleet of drones to deliver 'stuff'. If you can order in food and have 'stuff' delivered by drones, who needs a car? Oh, and almost none of them want a car as well; that industry is about to change, and waste zillions on electric car research and production. Don't get me started on the laugh/snorting flying car debacle.
The savvy entrepreneur pays attention to her market. She watches it for trends, and she keeps an eye on the troubles and advances of her competition. With reasonable intelligence working for her, she's likely to come out ahead. This is about the worst that MB Klien can be accused of doing.
BRAKIEJim,You just summed up the root cause of the demise of the LHS and probably the future demise of train shows.
It's hard to say if train shows are endangered. Timonium continues to be busy and well attended. Sure there are the odd "dud" shows but for me it's still very worth going to for treasure hunting especially and as my wife would say, it's a trip out for an activity for us. She steers me around to all the tables and makes sure I don't miss anything and we get a taco salad and make a day of it.
NVSRR It is the social aspect we are loosing. Half of the enjoyment of going to lhs or show is the meeting of new friends and talking with old ones. It the same with going to the mall with friends. You go to socialize while doing a mutual activity and interest.
It is the social aspect we are loosing. Half of the enjoyment of going to lhs or show is the meeting of new friends and talking with old ones. It the same with going to the mall with friends. You go to socialize while doing a mutual activity and interest.
Well, lets look at that social aspect. Thats a subjective thing. I've noticed for every "social hangout" hobby shop, I've seen 10 others that had nothing of interest to me, full or near full MSRP prices, an unpleasant place to linger and a shop owner who looked like he hated his life.
The last "social hangout" hobby shop I used to go to in upstate NY, the owner was nice to the big spenders and they were all a big "clutch" but if you weren't in that clique or not a big spender, then you were chopped liver and it was an uncomfortable place to browse in. Good riddence.
Ok, some shops were a social hang out and that social hangout is disappearing. There are other means for people to get social fulfillment - this forum is one very obvious outlet - what with all the frivolous topics that are only tenuously related to trains. There are clubs and round robin groups too.
I use modeltrainstuff for much of my online buying (it would be more, but they dropped S scale). I really like their online inventory and find their site easy to navigate and order from. The only 2 well stocked train hobby shops near me are focused on 3 rail O gauge.
OTOH, I like the train shows because I get to see the actual stuff - I enjoy looking even at the stuff I don't buy. And train shows are where I find a lot of old "new" stuff usually at pretty good prices. Plus most of them have a display layout - sometimes several.
Sure the well stocked hobby shop is a joy to browse, but there aren't many left.
Paul
NVSRRIt is the social aspect we are loosing. Half of the enjoyment of going to lhs or show is the meeting of new friends and talking with old ones.
I agree with NVSRR about the social part being gone. Many of us don't have a large club (or any club) close by or modeling friends to visit so the FLHS was our "Cheers". Hanging with like-minded folks on Saturday was always a special event to look forward to after a grueling week at work. I miss the usually enjoyable talks with fellow modelers while leaning on the counter and picking up my weekly "fix" of supplies. For those of us without that enjoyment we have to find that "thrill" here in the posts and other sites.
I miss being able to touch and see new products without having to buy them blindly. Most mail order shops do have decent return policies but that's a hassle to me. One-on-one time with something beats that. With the loss of so many shops it's harder to do it this way and for many of us far removed from the closest shop impractical.
As several wise posters have stated.............this is the new age of model buying. Like it or not this is basically how it is and how it shall be. Like ugly plastic automobiles, throw away electronics and RTR rolling stock..........this is our new lot. It really isn't bad.....just different. I'm OK with it and find it to be a lot less hassle thanks to folks like Kleins.
Roger Huber
Deer Creek Locomotive Works
carl425 I'm with Randy and Jim on this issue. Forums like this one and all the other online content like youtube reviews and online magazines have far surpassed whatever added value was provided by even the best of the LHS's. I can't understand why anyone would prefer the typical LHS over Modeltrainstuff.com or the mall over amazon. When it comes to shopping for MR stuff, these are the good old days.
I'm with Randy and Jim on this issue. Forums like this one and all the other online content like youtube reviews and online magazines have far surpassed whatever added value was provided by even the best of the LHS's.
I can't understand why anyone would prefer the typical LHS over Modeltrainstuff.com or the mall over amazon. When it comes to shopping for MR stuff, these are the good old days.
A buyer has to be fairly knowledgeable of the item in order for the internet store to be more convenient.....or the buyer doesn't care much about what they're buying.
Returning items via internet sales invovles as much work as selling an item on ebay. It has to be (re)packed and shipped. Unless the item is defective, buyer pays shipping.
- Douglas