betamaxThe budgets are published, and are available. They are part of the financial documents, if you look. I just saw 2016, since the reports for 2017 haven't been completed yet. The proposed 2017 budget is also in that document.
What they show are high level summaries only.
Paul
The National Model Railroad Association is a 501c3 (EIN 23-7250652).
They file an IRS Form 990.
I believe anyone can look at that information. Whether the information is useful is one thing, but I expect it will be accurate.
Ed
IRONROOSTER betamax The budgets are published, and are available. They are part of the financial documents, if you look. I just saw 2016, since the reports for 2017 haven't been completed yet. The proposed 2017 budget is also in that document. What they show are high level summaries only. Paul
betamax The budgets are published, and are available. They are part of the financial documents, if you look. I just saw 2016, since the reports for 2017 haven't been completed yet. The proposed 2017 budget is also in that document.
What specific information do you want? Generally you can figure out how most of the money was spent by looking at form 990s. Which are available to all members, and probably the public.
Go to the NMRA website, click on the search box in the top right hand corner and type "IRS". First result should be the Form 990s from the past 8 or so years.
Not publishing in the magazine is called good business, why waste the advertising space on something that can be published on the website? It costs money to use up space in the magazine, which most readers I would image would not care about, in fact would probably complain to the board that they are paying for useless information that could be placed elsewhere and available at no cost.
If they were to publish the budget in the magazine, members would complain that they have to buy the magazine to see the budget.
Dues increases are explained accurately in the budget, and are only allowed to be reactionary. They cannot be made in advance of expected cost increases, only as a result of past actual costs. The most recent increase in dues was attributed to inflation. The delta between 2012 and 2018 being $3.94. Actual membership cost increase was $3.
Inflation is only one factor and is indirectly related to the increase in costs of running an organization.
Edit:
https://www.nmra.org/members/presidents-car/february-2016-matter-cost
Which partly is why an outside agency periodically audits the financials, as reported in the annual budget.
Available by typing "audit" into the same search field as used to find the IRS Form and budget.
BMMECNYCNot publishing in the magazine
That refers back to a time before the Interenet became so prevalent. The point being the information was shared with the members. The how isn't really important. If they were to put it the web site, I would be fine with that.
BMMECNYCWhat specific information do you want?
How much money was transferred from the Life Fund to cover Life members? (As of the end of 2016 there were 2854)
How much of the magazine expense goes to the contract with White River Productions?
How much ad revenue does the magazine generate?
etc. etc. etc.
BMMECNYCDues increases are explained accurately in the budget,
Okay, why were the 1972 dues $5 ($30.29 adjusted for inflation) and why are they $75 now. (Which BTW is considerably higher than other similar organizations, such as TCA, TTOS, NASG)
It was not my intent to turn this thread into a discussion of NMRA finances - we don't have enough information to discuss it any way. I have responded somewhat to some of your points. I don't think you can find answers in the financial documents. But, in any event, I think it's time to let this sub thread die.
Ok, now lets deal with the real scope of things. Railroading is a big industry in the world and there are all levels of fans. Over 1,000,000 people in the world model american prototype, not a large market but not that small. What people fail to look at is that the NMRA is a very small part of the picture these days. Sure they were very important once but with in fighting and bad decisions their influance is very low these days, they are very much like the local hobby shop. Now this dose not have to be but they don't do much to fix the problem either. Now some divisions are fantastic but other are beyond poor and you need to have consistancy to attract new members. Their standards are no longer a consideration among any major manufacture and they take forever to put out standards for new stuff coming on the market, they let the market sort it out first, by then they are no longer needed. To build any orginization you need to make people feel welcome as mentioned the gaming comunity dose that well (I am part of Kubla-Con) which grows each year and now take over almost a whole very large hotel. Someone new shows up there is always someone to show you around and make you feel wecome. You show up at some NMRA events and no one says hi, they gather in their little clicks and they don't even control the goings on. Example, the one I belonged to always had an auction and took a small fee to support the division, once selling on e-bay became a thing, a new click quickly developed and all bargins were had buy these people from there on, many times prices were negotiated before hand, now you can't stop all of this but no one ever tried to limit it and everyone knew who they were. Now look at this from an outsiders point of veiw.
IRONROOSTERin any event, I think it's time to let this sub thread die.
Probably a good idea.
IRONROOSTERIt was not my intent to turn this thread into a discussion of NMRA finances - we don't have enough information to discuss it any way.
I'm a little confused. You had asked some questions regarding the dues level and expenditures. Are you an NMRA member? If so, then I think you would be within your rights to ask these questions of the leadership, or at least request a copy of the budget. If not a member, then I don't know why that information should be of concern to the rest of us.
rrebellExample, the one I belonged to always had an auction and took a small fee to support the division, once selling on e-bay became a thing, a new click quickly developed and all bargins were had buy these people from there on, many times prices were negotiated before hand, now you can't stop all of this but no one ever tried to limit it and everyone knew who they were.
First off it is clique, not click, and bargain, not bargin. But that's not important now.
The rest of it I sort of regard as a copout. If any member of an organization wants to see the organization thrive, grow, be more welcoming, or whatever, then the individual needs to be an advocate for change. This means gathering a like number of members to support your position and running for office so that you can get elected and make change happen. From what I've seen, there are a lot of complainers, but very few who are willing to make any effort.
rrebell Over 1,000,000 people in the world model american prototype, not a large market but not that small.
Over 1,000,000 people in the world model american prototype, not a large market but not that small.
And you know this how?
Sheldon
rrebellTo build any orginization you need to make people feel welcome as mentioned the gaming comunity dose that well (I am part of Kubla-Con) which grows each year and now take over almost a whole very large hotel. Someone new shows up there is always someone to show you around and make you feel wecome. You show up at some NMRA events and no one says hi, they gather in their little clicks and they don't even control the goings on.
.
Exactly. This is completely accurate.
-Kevin.
Living the dream.
SeeYou190 rrebell To build any orginization you need to make people feel welcome as mentioned the gaming comunity dose that well (I am part of Kubla-Con) which grows each year and now take over almost a whole very large hotel. Someone new shows up there is always someone to show you around and make you feel wecome. You show up at some NMRA events and no one says hi, they gather in their little clicks and they don't even control the goings on. . Exactly. This is completely accurate. . -Kevin.
rrebell To build any orginization you need to make people feel welcome as mentioned the gaming comunity dose that well (I am part of Kubla-Con) which grows each year and now take over almost a whole very large hotel. Someone new shows up there is always someone to show you around and make you feel wecome. You show up at some NMRA events and no one says hi, they gather in their little clicks and they don't even control the goings on.
And I agree it appears clear they need to work on some things.
Remember, I have been a member since 1968 and never been to an NMRA event, I have no dog in that part of the fight. I'm not is some big hurry to go to one either, even if they were everything some of you expect.
So I can't and won't judge the NMRA on that basis.
But again, without money and volunteers how can they change anything?
Are any of you critics stepping up to volunteer?
Well I don't have the time, too many family obligations, nor am I the social type anymore, but I can at least do my part on the money end..........again, living the way I live, and spending what I spend on this hobby, I would be embarrassed to say "it costs too much".
But Kevin, I sure would like you to provide actual facts and examples of what was wrong at the convention and how to make it right, rather than your vague hints. I'm not good at that game......
See I was a member for a number of years and nothing changed. I could not change it because my access was via others (you need a car to get to the meetings), so I could not have any impact except for the people I talked too. Even the higher ups were complaining about the burocracy (and yes I can't spell but am well edicated with a few degrees and this forum has no spell check).
ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Over 1,000,000 people in the world model american prototype, not a large market but not that small. And you know this how? Sheldon
rrebell ATLANTIC CENTRAL rrebell Over 1,000,000 people in the world model american prototype, not a large market but not that small. And you know this how? Sheldon Research, there are many who do US roads around the world rather than their own roads, the narrow gauge set for the Colorado area is huge in and of itself. Remember, most modelers are not into forums that, at least they are not members of them. Infact of all the hobbiest I know personally, I am the only one. Also remember that not all are into fine modeling, you would be surprised at how many lego train people there are. Just look at the numbers of modelers that are part of the world wide model railroading comunity listed on the NMRA site and remember that most model railroaders do not belong. Also remember how many groups there are as far as scale and gauge, HO alone has over 5 common gauges alone. We are a huge group but we are very splintered, way more than most hobbies and we haven't even talked about eras.
Research, there are many who do US roads around the world rather than their own roads, the narrow gauge set for the Colorado area is huge in and of itself. Remember, most modelers are not into forums that, at least they are not members of them. Infact of all the hobbiest I know personally, I am the only one. Also remember that not all are into fine modeling, you would be surprised at how many lego train people there are. Just look at the numbers of modelers that are part of the world wide model railroading comunity listed on the NMRA site and remember that most model railroaders do not belong. Also remember how many groups there are as far as scale and gauge, HO alone has over 5 common gauges alone. We are a huge group but we are very splintered, way more than most hobbies and we haven't even talked about eras.
That is all true, and I agree about how few modelers are on these forums, I have made that point myself many times on here. But none of that defines numbers.
As those of you who can remember back to the beginning of this thread I did in fact become a member. I asked ther original question “was the $75 fee worth it”.
There were several valid responses related to what the NMRA has done and is doing. All true. But I wanted to know how joining would help me with MY hobby activities. I can not go to meetings due to mobility issues and conventions as well as other meets and activities were out.
So far my $75 saved me $63.71 through purchases i’ve made at Micro Mark alone. I have till next January until I need to renew again. I’m sure I will be purchasing something else at one of the Vendors participating in the NMRA Partnership Program.
This year my membership and magazine cost me $11.29.
Gary
gdelmoroSo far my $75 saved me $63.71 through purchases i’ve made at Micro Mark alone. I have till next January until I need to renew again. I’m sure I will be purchasing something else at one of the Vendors participating in the NMRA Partnership Program. This year my membership and magazine cost me $11.29.
I suspect a lot of modelers would wind up recouping over half their dues each year in this way, and a not insigificant percentage will actually save hobby dollars by joining the NMRA and taking advantage of vendor discounts.
Some folks hate the NMRA and wil join under no circumstances whatsoever. That's their choice, but the argument that "It's too expensive!" is fast becoming a specious one.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
Micro Mark gives NMRA members more than a 20% discount? They ussually charge a premium there and no, we are not talking looking for the deep discounts I usually go for and to make sure my data was up to snuff, I searched just now on a number of items. Now let me make it clear, I have nothing against the NMRA but knowing some of the things I know makes me question their decision making procces.
Having been to a couple of meetings in the last couple of years, I decided to join using the trial membership which is good for a limited time. I immediately went to the members only section to seek out other members in my area. I was very disappointed to find out they do not list the membership in your division, region, etc. The "members only" section only list a couple of members layouts in your area.
I sent emails to NMRA officials and they stated privacy issues as the reason to not provide a list. I also belong to the OPSIG and they list their membership in a very easy to search method state by state. Not only does it list the name,address, and contact info, it also includes scale, wether they have a layout, if they are open to visitors and what type ops and preferences they like.
ACRR46 Having been to a couple of meetings in the last couple of years, I decided to join using the trial membership which is good for a limited time. I immediately went to the members only section to seek out other members in my area. I was very disappointed to find out they do not list the membership in your division, region, etc. The "members only" section only list a couple of members layouts in your area. I sent emails to NMRA officials and they stated privacy issues as the reason to not provide a list. I also belong to the OPSIG and they list their membership in a very easy to search method state by state. Not only does it list the name,address, and contact info, it also includes scale, wether they have a layout, if they are open to visitors and what type ops and preferences they like.
rrebellI understand the privicy issue but its not like we are gem dealers
Privacy is only one concern. Thievery is a bigger concern. Putting all that information out for anyone to see is the same as telling everyone on a public forum (Facebook for example) that you are enjoying your 3 week vacation in Timbukto and then wondering why you were robbed.
And when the going rate for some locos is $1000 and up, they might as well be gems.
i don't buy the privacy issue. The NMRA members section is password protected. I have a classic car and everyone within a 3 block radius knows it's in the garage.wether they know me or not. No one in the neighborhood has a clue about my model railroad in the basement. However, I built my model railroad to share with other modelers and have hosted several open houses over years.
i don't buy the privacy issue. The NMRA members section is password protected. I have a classic car and everyone within a 3 block radius knows it's in the garage.wether they know me or not. No one in the neighborhood has a clue about my model railroad in the basement. However, I built my model railroad to share with other modelers and have hosted several open houses over years
Sorry for the double posting.
maxman rrebell I understand the privicy issue but its not like we are gem dealers Privacy is only one concern. Thievery is a bigger concern. Putting all that information out for anyone to see is the same as telling everyone on a public forum (Facebook for example) that you are enjoying your 3 week vacation in Timbukto and then wondering why you were robbed. And when the going rate for some locos is $1000 and up, they might as well be gems.
rrebell I understand the privicy issue but its not like we are gem dealers
ACRR46I sent emails to NMRA officials and they stated privacy issues as the reason to not provide a list. I also belong to the OPSIG and they list their membership in a very easy to search method state by state. Not only does it list the name,address, and contact info..
Frankly, I don't see why my membership entitles you to know who I am or where I live. Much less be contacted.
If you want to meet local members go to your local division functions. As an NMRA member, you can attend the nearest one whether or not you're in the division.
Good to know about OPSIG - I was thinking of joining, but now I won't.
IRONROOSTERFrankly, I don't see why my membership entitles you to know who I am or where I live. Much less be contacted.
Egg-zackly.
The NMRA USED to publish full member info. They don't any more, and it was indeed because of security concerns.
Disclaimer: This post may contain humor, sarcasm, and/or flatulence.
Michael Mornard
Bringing the North Woods to South Dakota!
Bayfield Transfer Railway The NMRA USED to publish full member info. They don't any more, and it was indeed because of security concerns.
You can join the OPSIG but not list your personal information. It is completely optional.
ACRR46 You can join the OPSIG but not list your personal information. It is completely optional.
Thanks for clearing that up.
After my post about offsetting the cost of membership through purchases from suppliers offering NMRA discounts, some glass-half-empty folks came out of the woodwork.
Just goes to show - no matter what you do, some folks will invariably find fault or offense as a result.