I have set up an area in my basement where I am performing a lifetime test of two DC locomotives hauling unprotected real loads of Nova Scotia rock, minerals, ores, scrap metal, and ocean driftwood. I add new materials as I discover them to be of interest to my planned layout. The trains have been run every day for four months now. There have been a few load spills - all caused by my hand or arm touching a moving train by accident. There has been no noticeable performance degradation following these spills. I will use this thread to show the loads and provide updates.
This is the lifetime testbed. Two trains hauling real hopper/gondola loads, and an assortment of other cars, are run every day. The trial started in January 2017 and will continue indefinitely with the same two locomotives. After my field trip today, I'll describe the experiment in detail, including information on the locomotives, cars, loads, and tracks.
What's the purpose of the tests? Lots of us use live loads. The only tests I run are to see how many cars each locomotive or combination of locomotives can handle on the many grades and curves of my layout. This allows me to assign tonnage ratings.
Wayne
doctorwayne What's the purpose of the tests? Lots of us use live loads.
What's the purpose of the tests? Lots of us use live loads.
In several of my online posts here and in other places, I am receiving advice not to use real loads of magnetite (iron), coal (carbon), pyrite (sulphur), scrap metal (iron), ocean driftwood (salt) and more. Basically, the claim is that I will ruin my trains, turnouts, electronics, etc. This lifetime testbed is designed to quell those (valid) concerns with experimental facts. I set the testbed up in January 2017 so this is the fourth month of R&D. So, when I get similar concerns in future, I'll be able to point folks to this thread.
RR_Mel I have several HO locomotives with well over a thousand hours of run time.
I am not testing the lifetime of locomotives themselves - of course there is no need. I am testing the locomotives running in a layout environment that uses real iron, sulphur, carbon, salt and powders made from various rocks, minerals, and other natural materials.
On the outside oval track I am using a good quality Kato locomotive as shown in this photo. This train uses Kadee couplers and runs on Atlas track. It has run smoothly since day one of the lifetime testing.
On the inside oval Atlas track I am using a quality Atlas locomotive as shown in the picture. This train uses horn-hook couplers. There is also a turnout on this oval. Both ovals have a straight terminal track. This locomotive has also run smoothly since the lifetime trial began.
(1) Gypsum Gypsum is found almost everywhere in my real Nova Scotia layout area. There are white cliffs along the St. Croix River, a closed mine near Windsor, outcrops on the beaches of Cheverie, abandonned hoppers and ocean loading terminal in Hantsport, and quarries in Walton and Kempt Shore. This sample in my hand is commercial quality gypsum off the gypsum hoppers in Hantsport.
Preparing a load of gypsum for an HO-scale hopper starts with crushing gypsum outside to minimize the amount of fine powder that gets into the air and all over nearby household objects. I wear safety glasses and a mask.
I use store-bought and home-made sifters to separate desireable particle sizes.
In this case I am crushing to obtain gypsum for an HO hopper. The powder and fine particles are sifted out and the desired gypsum washed thoroughly.
The powder and fine particles that didn't blow away are saved for fillers, ground cover, concrete, and several other applications on the layout.
The gypsum for hopper loads is air dried or blow dried.
A roll of strong ceramic magnets is passed through the gypsum to remove any iron-based particles. In this case there were none!
A load of clean gypsum was placed in a hopper and is running on the inside test track (the horn-hook coupler train).
Another load of clean gypsum was placed in another hopper on the outside track (Kadee coupler train). Fourth month and no problems. That's it for gypsum.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder Another load of clean gypsum was placed in another hopper on the outside track (Kadee coupler train). Fourth month and no problems. That's it for gypsum.
Respectfully I'm not sure I understand. Based on the photo above, I would not be interested in using this material. Regardless of other concerns, the size of the pieces is way too large to represent most anything carried in open hoppers.
Please explain if I am misunderstanding?
Personally, after 40 years in this hobby, I have found no need to use live loads. The only live load operation I have ever seen that was effective is at the Severna Park Model Railroad Club. They have a coal mine tipple that loads hoppers, and a rotary dump that empties them into a ship.
Short of that sort of display, what is the value in live loads?
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Respectfully I'm not sure I understand. Based on the photo above, I would not be interested in using this material. Regardless of other concerns, the size of the pieces is way too large to represent most anything carried in open hoppers.
I have used this size so you can see it clearly. I can make any size, in fact, I have made gypsum as track ballast at HO scale. All my building foundations are made of 'concrete' - gypsum+binder.
First advantage, it's free. I do not have to spend a penny. Second advantage, it's real. I will have an operational (animated) gypsum mine and quarry in my layout using real gypsum. I had a personal tour of the National Gypsum open pit mine in Milford a year or so ago. I will even make HO scale explosives that work - got to see that on my tour. Third advantage, it's my personal preference as a retired phyisicist with one of my daughters and her husband being geologists in Calgary. Fourth advantage, the theme of my layout is Nova Scotia geology. Fifth advantage, it's fun. Sixth advantage ... there are more.
It's 1:00 am here in Nova Scotia but I had to get up to take a picture just for you. Is this better? I can even get smaller particle sizes if you like.
All white particles here are gypsum. I can even go smaller than what you see in this picture. The gypsum powder in the test tubes (earlier photo) also contain very fine particles. For example, all I have to do is wash away or sift away the powder and I will be left with tiny grains that look like beach sand. There is also real Nova Scotia coal, sandstone, and shale in this sorter.
Here is my homemade DavidsTea fine grain sieve.
Gypsum powder sifted out.
And finally, very fine particulate gypsum which I have used for filler and track ballast.
There are some cons - other than the qualities in the material itself - for using "real loads".
- Excess weight is often the biggest discouraging factor. It doesn't take many overweight cars to severely limit a given loco's hauling ability.
- Sooner or later an overweighted car of real product will derail and fall over, spreading the contents everywhere. I guess if one has a "plywood central" its no big deal, but those that have beautifully scenicked right of way - well that is another story.
- Often, the "real thing" just doesn't look right on our layouts. That's subjective of course, but I've experienced it many times with various materials.
On the other hand, there is a solution that would work for many of us. By building a base of foam or cardboard or whatever that would fit in the car, and covering that base with adhesive, the real material could be applied and shaped to the builders content. This would significantly reduce weight, eliminate the trauma of spillage, and allow the cars to be handled at will.
For what its worth....the above all came from experience.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
What exactly do you mean by "lifetime" test(ing)?
Rich
Alton Junction
OldSchoolScratchbuilder ATLANTIC CENTRAL Respectfully I'm not sure I understand. Based on the photo above, I would not be interested in using this material. Regardless of other concerns, the size of the pieces is way too large to represent most anything carried in open hoppers. I have used this size so you can see it clearly. I can make any size, in fact, I have made gypsum as track ballast at HO scale. All my building foundations are made of 'concrete' - gypsum+binder. First advantage, it's free. I do not have to spend a penny. Second advantage, it's real. I will have an operational (animated) gypsum mine and quarry in my layout using real gypsum. I had a personal tour of the National Gypsum open pit mine in Milford a year or so ago. I will even make HO scale explosives that work - got to see that on my tour. Third advantage, it's my personal preference as a retired phyisicist with one of my daughters and her husband being geologists in Calgary. Fourth advantage, the theme of my layout is Nova Scotia geology. Fifth advantage, it's fun. Sixth advantage ... there are more. It's 1:00 am here in Nova Scotia but I had to get up to take a picture just for you. Is this better? I can even get smaller particle sizes if you like.
OK, fine, thanks for explaining. Obviously this suits your needs, interests and location, good luck.
Its broad appeal to other modelers is questionable. First off, "free" assumes that it exists in a location/situation where a person is allowed to "remove" it.
Second, for many of us modeling time is a valueable resource, so taking time for this operation would hardly be free, it would effect our ability to focus on other aspects of our modeling - not unlike cutting down a tree to mill lumber to build bench work - I think most lack the tools or situation that would make that practical.
So good luck and have fun,
richhotrain What exactly do you mean by "lifetime" test(ing)? Rich
Rich, from what I read above, I believe others have cautioned the OP that having these raw materials near/in the trains may create a corrosive invironment. Surely too much of any salt just laying around may not be good.........
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Its broad appeal to other modelers is questionable. First off, "free" assumes that it exists in a location/situation where a person is allowed to "remove" it. Second, for many of us modeling time is a valueable resource, so taking time for this operation would hardly be free, it would effect our ability to focus on other aspects of our modeling - not unlike cutting down a tree to mill lumber to build bench work - I think most lack the tools or situation that would make that practical
Second, for many of us modeling time is a valueable resource, so taking time for this operation would hardly be free, it would effect our ability to focus on other aspects of our modeling - not unlike cutting down a tree to mill lumber to build bench work - I think most lack the tools or situation that would make that practical
In Nova Scotia rock and mineral collecting is permitted by the Government. This is in writing on some of their public documents. Private property I get permission like the barite silos in Walton. You can even sell what you find at rockhounding shows, etc.
I am not trying to appeal to modellers. I am presenting what I do. Working with natural materials is my valuable modelling time. BTW, I do use real trees to make all the lumber in my structures! This is called fine woodworking and artwork. My username says old school and that is exactly what I do. With the exceptions of trains, tracks and electronics, my modelling scenery predates the invention of commercial plastics. All my scenery is handmade primarily from wood, stone and glue.
OldSchoolScratchbuilder ATLANTIC CENTRAL Its broad appeal to other modelers is questionable. First off, "free" assumes that it exists in a location/situation where a person is allowed to "remove" it. Second, for many of us modeling time is a valueable resource, so taking time for this operation would hardly be free, it would effect our ability to focus on other aspects of our modeling - not unlike cutting down a tree to mill lumber to build bench work - I think most lack the tools or situation that would make that practical In Nova Scotia rock and mineral collecting is permitted by the Government. This is in writing on some of their public documents. Private property I get permission like the barite silos in Walton. You can even sell what you find at rockhounding shows, etc. I am not trying to appeal to modellers. I am presenting what I do. Working with natural materials is my valuable modelling time. BTW, I do use real trees to make all the lumber in my structures! This is called fine woodworking and artwork. My username says old school and that is exactly what I do. With the exceptions of trains, tracks and electronics, my modelling scenery predates the invention of commercial plastics. All my scenery is handmade primarily from wood, stone and glue.
Again, I understand, thanks for sharing.
While I have no interest in sifting minerals for car loads, or milling my own lumber to scratch build with, I am a very traditional modeler myself, doing a fair amount of kit bashing, scratch building, craftsman kit contruction, and using a fair amount of traditional materials. Only a small percentage of my rolling stock is RTR, most buiilt from kits of one level or another.
As for scenery, I still use many methods that predate modern products like ground foam and plastic trees. I have made my share of wire and plaster tree trunks.
My point, everything need not be one extreem or the other, a blend of old a new can be very effective.
On that note in reverse, I do not use DCC, but rather choose to "roll my own" electronics with an Advanced Cab Control DC system of my own design with wireless radio throttles, which includes CTC and signaling.
Have fun, take care,
2. Shale Shale is also found in many places in my real Nova Scotia layout area. Shale is often found in sheets like the one shown in my hand. This piece was collected off the shale beach in Walton. Shale is even easier to work with than gypsum and can be processed using all the techniques I discussed for gypsum. I use shale more than any other natural material in my layout work. It is used for rail beds and track ballast, buttresses and foundations, roofing to simulate a New England style slate roofing for example, bedrock, ground cover, scenery, and hopper loads. The piece in my hand is slated for the roof of my feed and seed plant.